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By Tainari88
#15066124
blackjack21 wrote:Yet, you stick to the egalitarian hypothesis? He just gave you a Darwinian theory of sexual selection. That's a big part of the argument I would give you for racism. This guy agrees with me. You submit him as someone to listen to, but if I make a similar argument, you disagree with me. Why is that?



What are you talking about Blackjack? He is talking about three parts of the human brain in terms of propaganda 'manipulation' emotional appeal messages. I listen to Rapaille on how to create propaganda messages that appeal to the reptilian brain. Not that I think racism is the way to go with social and political organization of an entire economic and social system. You can't distinguish. He is talking about the Cortex which develops in a child at age 7 and you can start to talk about LOGIC and judgment and more advanced and intellect based forms of social and economic organization.

It reinforces my argument that your political views are stuck in the reptilian brain not the higher functions at all. The higher functions are about egalitarian arguments Blackjack. Not about fear based racist shit arguments that appeal to instinctual survival mechanisms in humanity...which those damn Trump supporters are at 100% and they will stay in the most profoundly illogical part of humanity. They need to start organizing societies that are not about that primary emotion FEAR. Remember that one? The one I said was what the RIGHT is all about?

You fell into my theory perfectly Blackjack. You back a fear based ideology. Period.

You got to overcome the comforts of sticking with your own group when making decisions about an economic system that is using internationalism to prosper and to dominate. The reason why there are so many 'third world' peoples invading the USA is that the international system of capitalism is not functioning in a logical way and stabilizing the societies in crisis.

That is my point.

Now back to propaganda Relampaguito....how one might counter act using the reptilian brain to appeal to a message to people who respond to such a consciousness? Because there is good propaganda based on fear. But fear is only one of the two mentioned primary emotions and I am all about the second one...and indeed the BEST one of all....LOVE...it is based on the second emotion. Love. Not Fear.

The need to have safety, love and stability and acceptance in a group. How does one get that to be the motivator and what kind of message would that look like in society?

Can you deal with that flip side of fear for the propaganda Blackjack? Or not?

I kind of liked the passion in your message Relampaguito....Clotaire Rapaille is an anthropologist but he is one that deals with the aspect of benefiting from the current system not changing it. There is a big difference between Rapaille's politics and mine. Never forget that.

Lol. Blackjack! :) :D
User avatar
By blackjack21
#15066133
Tainari88 wrote:It reinforces my argument that your political views are stuck in the reptilian brain not the higher functions at all. The higher functions are about egalitarian arguments Blackjack.

The frontal cortex is about logic/reason, not egalitarianism. You speak about corazon all the time, but that is not frontal cortex. That's limbic. It's emotion. I work in computer science. It's 100% logic. Logic has no feelings at all. Why do people like @late whine on about global warming or Trump is a dictator and such? It's an appeal to fear. What he doesn't understand about me is that I know this game well now, and I don't buy into it. So his presumption is that I want what he's warning about. That's a false conclusion. You do the same thing in assuming I WANT a class hierarchy because I do not embrace radical egalitarianism. There is a difference between positive analysis and normative analysis. I'm keen on manipulation by fear now and I generally do not respond favorably to it anymore. Whether I want class hierarchies, dictatorships or global warming is sort of irrelevant, since I do not have the power to make or break any of these things. I'm just offering an analysis of the situation. That's what Charles Murray was doing too.

Rapaille clearly speaks about "love" as an emotion (limbic system) with an aim to improving survival. This goes beyond the reptilian brain toward the mammalian brain--a limbic system with a pituitary, hippocampus, amygdala, ventral tegmental area, prefrontal cortex, etc. Rapaille's point is also confirmed fairly conclusively by Harry Harlow's experiments on maternal deprivation in Rhesus monkeys. It's precisely why I say feminism, liberal divorce laws, and so forth have been a disaster for children. Today's leftists--purporting to be imbued with scientific thought and a nobleness of purpose--pretend that they do not understand why children might get a gun and shoot up their schools. They know perfectly well it's because of mental illness born of a failure of socialization born of a failure of maternal affection, but this does not fit their political objectives.

Rapaille clearly says, the reptilian brain always wins.

Tainari88 wrote:The one I said was what the RIGHT is all about?

Trump is a racist. Trump is a dictator. Trump is colluding with Russia. Trump cheated his way to the White House. Global warming is going to destroy the planet. These are not fear-based messages coming from the left? Trump is talking up a great economy. His SOTU address was primarily about positive messages. That is why he had a 75% approval from audiences tested by both CNN and CBS. It was an empirical disaster for the Democrats.

Tainari88 wrote:You fell into my theory perfectly Blackjack. You back a fear based ideology. Period.

Backing it is different from asserting that it exists and will continue to exist. Rapaille agrees with me. The reptilian brain always wins. That's why you will always have differences among peoples, racial and ethnic strife, gender differences and so forth.

Tainari88 wrote:You got to overcome the comforts of sticking with your own group when making decisions about an economic system that is using internationalism to prosper and to dominate.

I work in an international corporation. I travel internationally. I work with people all around the world. It just so happens that they are mostly high IQ people. There are some moderate IQ people, but there are simply no idiots in my line of work. It's not open to them, because of their limited cognitive abilities.

Tainari88 wrote:The reason why there are so many 'third world' peoples invading the USA is that the international system of capitalism is not functioning in a logical way and stabilizing the societies in crisis.

The reason is because the welfare state, in order to stay in power, devised a means of buying the votes of working class people with welfare--"you don't have to get a job if you just vote Democrat. We'll give you all the welfare you need to live a basic life." So who does the working class jobs? Illegal immigrants who legally can't vote. Their bet? If illegal immigrants are made citizens, they will vote Democrat giving the Democrats a more or less permanent political majority. That's the same game in Europe too. It's not hard to figure out.

Tainari88 wrote:But fear is only one of the two mentioned primary emotions and I am all about the second one...and indeed the BEST one of all....LOVE...it is based on the second emotion. Love. Not Fear.

Trump used variations of the word "love" 9 times in his SOTU address. The word "hate" never appeared.

Donald J. Trump wrote:The people are the heart of our country, their dreams are the soul of our country, and their love is what powers and sustains our country. We must always remember that our job is to put America first.
...
Thank you, Melania, for your extraordinary love and profound care for America’s children. Thank you very much.
...
Almost every American family knows the pain when a loved one is diagnosed with a serious illness. Here tonight is a special man, beloved by millions of Americans who just received a Stage 4 advanced cancer diagnosis.
...
Rocky was at a gas station when this vile criminal fired eight bullets at him from close range, murdering him in cold blood. Rocky left behind a devoted family, including his brothers, who loved him more than anything else in the world. One of his grieving brothers is here with us tonight. Jody, would you please stand? Jody, thank you. (Applause.) Jody our hearts weep for your loss, and we will not rest until you have justice.

Senator Thom Tillis has introduced legislation to allow Americans like Jody to sue sanctuary cities and states when a loved one is hurt or killed as a result of these deadly practices. (Applause.)
...
After graduating from college, their beautiful daughter Kayla became a humanitarian aid worker. She once wrote, “Some people find God in church. Some people find God in nature. Some people find God in love. I find God in suffering. I’ve known for some time what my life’s work is, using my hands as tools to relieve suffering.” In 2013, while caring for suffering civilians in Syria, Kayla was kidnapped, tortured, and enslaved by ISIS, and kept as a prisoner of al-Baghdadi himself. After more than 500 horrifying days of captivity, al-Baghdadi murdered young, beautiful Kayla. She was just 26 years old.
...
Every day, America’s men and women in uniform demonstrate the infinite depth of love that dwells in the human heart.
...
On his second deployment to Iraq in 2008, Sergeant Hake wrote a letter to his one-year-old son, Gage: “I will be with you again,” he wrote to Gage. “I will teach you to ride your first bike, build your first sand box, watch you play sports, and see you have kids also. I love you son. Take care of your mother. I am always with you. Daddy.”

Do you understand why Trump had 75% approval numbers from that speech even from CBS and CNN focus groups?

Tainari88 wrote:The need to have safety, love and stability and acceptance in a group. How does one get that to be the motivator and what kind of message would that look like in society?

Citizens of the United States versus illegal aliens and overseas competition taking jobs. The flip side of that fear is security, love and stability.
User avatar
By Tainari88
#15066145
blackjack21 wrote:The frontal cortex is about logic/reason, not egalitarianism. You speak about corazon all the time, but that is not frontal cortex. That's limbic. It's emotion. I work in computer science. It's 100% logic. Logic has no feelings at all. Why do people like @late whine on about global warming or Trump is a dictator and such? It's an appeal to fear. What he doesn't understand about me is that I know this game well now, and I don't buy into it. So his presumption is that I want what he's warning about. That's a false conclusion. You do the same thing in assuming I WANT a class hierarchy because I do not embrace radical egalitarianism. There is a difference between positive analysis and normative analysis. I'm keen on manipulation by fear now and I generally do not respond favorably to it anymore. Whether I want class hierarchies, dictatorships or global warming is sort of irrelevant, since I do not have the power to make or break any of these things. I'm just offering an analysis of the situation. That's what Charles Murray was doing too.

Rapaille clearly speaks about "love" as an emotion (limbic system) with an aim to improving survival. This goes beyond the reptilian brain toward the mammalian brain--a limbic system with a pituitary, hippocampus, amygdala, ventral tegmental area, prefrontal cortex, etc. Rapaille's point is also confirmed fairly conclusively by Harry Harlow's experiments on maternal deprivation in Rhesus monkeys. It's precisely why I say feminism, liberal divorce laws, and so forth have been a disaster for children. Today's leftists--purporting to be imbued with scientific thought and a nobleness of purpose--pretend that they do not understand why children might get a gun and shoot up their schools. They know perfectly well it's because of mental illness born of a failure of socialization born of a failure of maternal affection, but this does not fit their political objectives.

Rapaille clearly says, the reptilian brain always wins.


Trump is a racist. Trump is a dictator. Trump is colluding with Russia. Trump cheated his way to the White House. Global warming is going to destroy the planet. These are not fear-based messages coming from the left? Trump is talking up a great economy. His SOTU address was primarily about positive messages. That is why he had a 75% approval from audiences tested by both CNN and CBS. It was an empirical disaster for the Democrats.


Backing it is different from asserting that it exists and will continue to exist. Rapaille agrees with me. The reptilian brain always wins. That's why you will always have differences among peoples, racial and ethnic strife, gender differences and so forth.


I work in an international corporation. I travel internationally. I work with people all around the world. It just so happens that they are mostly high IQ people. There are some moderate IQ people, but there are simply no idiots in my line of work. It's not open to them, because of their limited cognitive abilities.


The reason is because the welfare state, in order to stay in power, devised a means of buying the votes of working class people with welfare--"you don't have to get a job if you just vote Democrat. We'll give you all the welfare you need to live a basic life." So who does the working class jobs? Illegal immigrants who legally can't vote. Their bet? If illegal immigrants are made citizens, they will vote Democrat giving the Democrats a more or less permanent political majority. That's the same game in Europe too. It's not hard to figure out.


Trump used variations of the word "love" 9 times in his SOTU address. The word "hate" never appeared.


Do you understand why Trump had 75% approval numbers from that speech even from CBS and CNN focus groups?


Citizens of the United States versus illegal aliens and overseas competition taking jobs. The flip side of that fear is security, love and stability.



I still have the quote glitch Relampaguito, so bear with me as I try to respond with an entire quote scene of yours that are fairly long.

You have a very serious lack of understanding what is corazon and the limbic and what is the logic and you think it is about something cold, political and totally inhumane Blackjack. Can you agree that all human beings have emotional needs, emotions running through their biological bodies and that they have emotionally imprinted instincts? To survive and to reproduce? Yes. So how do you jump from this core commonality in all human beings in all nations and in all ethnic and racial categorizations to class systems based on fear, competition, cutting off heads and destroying other societies in order to remain in positions of dominance and supremacy? That is a huge leap....What is love to you? Again that is the core difference between you and I. And it is a damn galaxy and the universe expanding for all time difference between you and I. I will make it very brief. For you love is placing a value on your own group as worthy of love, acceptance, safety and security, and the 'other' as an alien, a threat, non human in some way and needs to be controlled, excluded and rejected.

There is no sense of what all of one species is Relampaguito. Just many variants of one entire connected system. The iron in the blood of our species pumping through all our hearts. We either create many societies working as one for the advancement of all...or die in the fires of incessant conflicts based on the need to rule supreme. That is a HUGE difference in the way we see our political philosophies Blackjack. You favor your side because you are a white male from the dominant culture of the USA and you grew up with certain privileges that you are not even aware of you having and using your entire life. You think internationalism is about working with people from other cultures and being able to get something done Relampaguito. It is not. It is about seeing them as equal to you on all levels and that you are willing to learn to speak their native language, listen to their ways of doing things, be able to completely identify with their innate humanity and include them as family along WITH YOUR OWN CULTURE. Give them equal footing and value in your life, your heart and your spirit. Expand the circle of inclusion with LOVE for their difference. To the point in which you feel comfortable with all of them in their vulnerable human flawed existence. Connection. That is CORAZON. Not the stuff you think is love.

What you think is love is actually a form of fear. The many faces of fear. That is why you are so far right in politics. It relfects you true emotional states.

Cortex is about logic. What is logical? That homo sapiens are all one species. Not two separate species. That variation within groups is as great as variation between groups. Therefore variation is natural and part of who we are....it doesn't mean that you have to create an economic and social system based on uniformity....what it should be built on are on RIGHTS and on meeting needs. That old premise of socialism called: To each according to their ability and to each according to their need.

Your premise is based on reptilian instinct and the absolute base of life.....don't use logic...use instinct of survival for something that has moved beyond that state of civilization Blackjack. Instead of tribalistic exclusions and xenophobic crap....we need to cope with how to meet everyone's needs and find work for them according to their abilities so they retain their dignity as workers, productive members of society and citizens of the many nations that compose this Earth.

You can be a coder and a very intelligent man with fine intellectual abilities Blackjack Relampaguito...and you are that and more....but, you will never be effective getting that core of why human societies need to change...in order to get that better world we all want badly in this plane of existence.....that EXPANSION OF LOVE. Include them all! The African, the Latin American, the Native American, the Asian, the European the entire spectrum of life and push them forward in cooperatives groups...who if they don't learn to share what is left after the Earth is exhausted with our behaviors and in the loop system will retaliate? If we don't expand with love in time?

The reptilian won't be able to overcome the reality that all of us need the limbic and the cortex in order to find our path to peace. Otherwise? We are not going to make it Relampaguito. Too many fear based failures with no corazon to get the job done!

This is desiring corazon for you Senor...I hope you find it before it becomes too late for you! :)
User avatar
By Tainari88
#15066199
blackjack21 wrote:The frontal cortex is about logic/reason, not egalitarianism. You speak about corazon all the time, but that is not frontal cortex. That's limbic. It's emotion. I work in computer science. It's 100% logic. Logic has no feelings at all. Why do people like @late whine on about global warming or Trump is a dictator and such? It's an appeal to fear. What he doesn't understand about me is that I know this game well now, and I don't buy into it. So his presumption is that I want what he's warning about. That's a false conclusion. You do the same thing in assuming I WANT a class hierarchy because I do not embrace radical egalitarianism. There is a difference between positive analysis and normative analysis. I'm keen on manipulation by fear now and I generally do not respond favorably to it anymore. Whether I want class hierarchies, dictatorships or global warming is sort of irrelevant, since I do not have the power to make or break any of these things. I'm just offering an analysis of the situation. That's what Charles Murray was doing too.

Rapaille clearly speaks about "love" as an emotion (limbic system) with an aim to improving survival. This goes beyond the reptilian brain toward the mammalian brain--a limbic system with a pituitary, hippocampus, amygdala, ventral tegmental area, prefrontal cortex, etc. Rapaille's point is also confirmed fairly conclusively by Harry Harlow's experiments on maternal deprivation in Rhesus monkeys. It's precisely why I say feminism, liberal divorce laws, and so forth have been a disaster for children. Today's leftists--purporting to be imbued with scientific thought and a nobleness of purpose--pretend that they do not understand why children might get a gun and shoot up their schools. They know perfectly well it's because of mental illness born of a failure of socialization born of a failure of maternal affection, but this does not fit their political objectives.

Rapaille clearly says, the reptilian brain always wins.


Trump is a racist. Trump is a dictator. Trump is colluding with Russia. Trump cheated his way to the White House. Global warming is going to destroy the planet. These are not fear-based messages coming from the left? Trump is talking up a great economy. His SOTU address was primarily about positive messages. That is why he had a 75% approval from audiences tested by both CNN and CBS. It was an empirical disaster for the Democrats.


Backing it is different from asserting that it exists and will continue to exist. Rapaille agrees with me. The reptilian brain always wins. That's why you will always have differences among peoples, racial and ethnic strife, gender differences and so forth.


I work in an international corporation. I travel internationally. I work with people all around the world. It just so happens that they are mostly high IQ people. There are some moderate IQ people, but there are simply no idiots in my line of work. It's not open to them, because of their limited cognitive abilities.


The reason is because the welfare state, in order to stay in power, devised a means of buying the votes of working class people with welfare--"you don't have to get a job if you just vote Democrat. We'll give you all the welfare you need to live a basic life." So who does the working class jobs? Illegal immigrants who legally can't vote. Their bet? If illegal immigrants are made citizens, they will vote Democrat giving the Democrats a more or less permanent political majority. That's the same game in Europe too. It's not hard to figure out.


Trump used variations of the word "love" 9 times in his SOTU address. The word "hate" never appeared.


Do you understand why Trump had 75% approval numbers from that speech even from CBS and CNN focus groups?


Citizens of the United States versus illegal aliens and overseas competition taking jobs. The flip side of that fear is security, love and stability.



@blackjack21 let me get to the point. What is the solution to what you think is wrong with American society? Feminism? Liberals saying to have mothers not spend time with their babies and toddlers because they must work....? Family neglect based on what? The need for two incomes? This sounds like the reason you gave me for not being married and having children. You think you might end up in divorce court, losing half your income and seeing your children on weekends...because what the women out there in America are into this liberal shit idea of non traditional families? I am trying to figure out what you are thinking is the solution Blackjack?

I have read you enough to follow my ínstincts about you Relampaguito. And you don't give one hell about people who are not in a position of some authority and to a certain degree how cynical are you Blackjack? To think Trump is some kind of sympathetic figure for Latinos or Blacks or that he is not a class conscious man with tremendous horrifically discriminatory thoughts running around in his head?

Do you think he respects women? With all kinds of comments he has made about them over the years....two divorces, and he says things that are not about respect at all. I don't see that man as a man filled with love and respect and spirituality and honesty and empathy towards almost anyone. You paint him as some not so bad guy trying to do his best in a sea of shady characters.

I am not fooled by the narcissistic, egocentric, immature person he is...he is a conman and a publicity hound. He is not a policy expert, a statesman or even a mediocre intellect. He is a manipulator and a very very aggressive competitive egotist. I find him repulsive but he encapsulates what this rotten value society is about. Something you also think is acceptable Blackjack.

I am telling you he won't lead you to some kind of compromise. If you want to throw a molotov cocktail at American society and make sure it loses power completely you keep going with Trump mentality. It will be checkmated. And you will reach the end of the power seat for American life.

Fear is effective for only a short time Blackjack. Once you get tired of living in fear....you have to allow hope and what comes with it to reign. Love and hope and a need for improvement. With struggle and with dedication and only through respecting many people's rights do you have peace. If you never learn to respect anyone but your own little small circle of people's rights? There won't be peace.

Logic is about doing what needs to get done so the entire human race gets to see more generations into the future. If you want human extinction? You stay in the part of the brain that we evolved out of a long long time ago Blackjack. Like I said, we moved out of the reptilian a long time ago in terms of higher functions. USE IT. Or LOSE IT.
User avatar
By blackjack21
#15066248
Tainari88 wrote:Can you agree that all human beings have emotional needs, emotions running through their biological bodies and that they have emotionally imprinted instincts?

Yes. That's the limbic system.

Tainari88 wrote:To survive and to reproduce?

That's reptilian--primitive.

Tainari88 wrote:So how do you jump from this core commonality in all human beings in all nations and in all ethnic and racial categorizations to class systems based on fear, competition, cutting off heads and destroying other societies in order to remain in positions of dominance and supremacy? That is a huge leap....

It's not more a leap than a band of chimpanzees fighting with other bands of chimpanzees over territory. Lots of animals are territorial and will kill each other over territory. It's not limited to humans by any stretch of the imagination. Within groups you have dominance hierarchies too. It's as true of silverback gorillas as it is with chickens and their pecking orders. You see Donald Trump as some horrible human being and the establishment as horrible human beings, and Erich Fromm socialists as good human beings. I see a power struggle from an old decrepit order getting challenged by a new one that is leaner and more efficient. It is no different than a younger, stronger silver back gorilla deciding its time to challenge the older dominant gorilla.

You've read Yuval Nova Harari too. What did he note in Sapiens? That humans ability to organize and specialize allowed them to create larger groups than the 20-30 persons that would typically be part of a troop. That's about the natural size of silver back gorilla troops. About platoon size.

Tainari88 wrote:For you love is placing a value on your own group as worthy of love, acceptance, safety and security, and the 'other' as an alien, a threat, non human in some way and needs to be controlled, excluded and rejected.

In-group preference is natural. Whether I place a value on it or not is rather immaterial in the larger scheme of things. "Non human" in some way is your way of trying to make what I'm saying morally wrong and therefore defensibly objectionable. I'm saying that makes no difference to the reptilian brain. It makes no difference to the in-group preferences of silver back gorillas for gorillas within their own troop. Does that make silver back gorillas racist? Sexist? Xenophobic? Perhaps. However, I see little point in trying to institute moral reforms among silver back gorillas. That's how they are wired.

Tainari88 wrote:You favor your side because you are a white male from the dominant culture of the USA and you grew up with certain privileges that you are not even aware of you having and using your entire life.

As I've explained to you many times, Charles Murray in his Bell Curve was not trying to say, "Hey, black people are stupid, so let's not bother educating them." He was lamenting that the elites of the day decided to eliminate wood shop, metal shop, auto shop, etc. from high schools and then send people who were ill-prepared to compete into colleges and universities, only to flunk out and be saddled with debt or as is now the case redirected to degrees in black studies, women's studies, Asian studies, etc. where they have learned to nurture a grudge against white people at enormous expense in exchange for a college degree that is worth less than a diploma from Trump University. Whereas, I work in a world where merit does matter. I work with people all over the world, and they are all high IQ. They are mostly from European or Asian stock--overwhelmingly so. As Murray and many others have noted, it's foolish to assert we are white supremacists when our work is logic and math driven and we are saying Asians are on average better at math than whites. It's hardly a strong argument for white supremacy.

Tainari88 wrote:You think internationalism is about working with people from other cultures and being able to get something done Relampaguito. It is not. It is about seeing them as equal to you on all levels and that you are willing to learn to speak their native language, listen to their ways of doing things, be able to completely identify with their innate humanity and include them as family along WITH YOUR OWN CULTURE.

That's multiculturalism in a nutshell. Have you listened to the Sinaloa cartel's way of doing things, identified with their innate sense of humanity and included them at your dinner table as yet? Do you see that spark of divinity in MS-13 murdering rapists that Nancy Pelosi sees? Have you learned to speak Pashto and subordinated yourself to the Taliban elders as their culture demands? I'm guessing the answer to that question is "no."

Tainari88 wrote:Expand the circle of inclusion with LOVE for their difference.

You mean like the genital mutilation of African woman? That's an interesting cultural difference.

Tainari88 wrote:To the point in which you feel comfortable with all of them in their vulnerable human flawed existence.

How about comfortable to the point that they decide you are a Takfir and decide to cut your head off? You can take point on this, and I'll be the rear guard. Show us the way Tainari88.

Tainari88 wrote:Cortex is about logic. What is logical? That homo sapiens are all one species. Not two separate species.

Yeah. Why do you think that leads to a kumbaya moment? Exploiting people also involves logic. Logic isn't inherently good or bad.

Tainari88 wrote:That variation within groups is as great as variation between groups. Therefore variation is natural and part of who we are....it doesn't mean that you have to create an economic and social system based on uniformity....what it should be built on are on RIGHTS and on meeting needs. That old premise of socialism called: To each according to their ability and to each according to their need.

Uh huh. Then, we get slackers looking for a free ride. That's true in any system.

Tainari88 wrote:but, you will never be effective getting that core of why human societies need to change...

As an anthropologist, you should know very well that high IQ people are very adaptable and very capable of dealing with change, but low IQ people generally are not.

Tainari88 wrote:The reptilian won't be able to overcome the reality that all of us need the limbic and the cortex in order to find our path to peace. Otherwise? We are not going to make it Relampaguito.

Competition is as hard-wired as cooperation. Peace within the group is entirely different from peace between groups.

Tainari88 wrote:@blackjack21 let me get to the point. What is the solution to what you think is wrong with American society? Feminism? Liberals saying to have mothers not spend time with their babies and toddlers because they must work....? Family neglect based on what? The need for two incomes? This sounds like the reason you gave me for not being married and having children. You think you might end up in divorce court, losing half your income and seeing your children on weekends...because what the women out there in America are into this liberal shit idea of non traditional families? I am trying to figure out what you are thinking is the solution Blackjack?

I don't think it's limited to American society. As I have said, I think one of the key issues that is wrong in the West is stretching egalitarianism beyond its intended purpose. My ancestors weren't saying whites, blacks, women, homosexuals, Christians and Muslims are all equal. They were saying, "Fuck King William and Lord Uncle Bob!" Why? Because they came from privilege but inheritance of land, title, and station were arbitrarily determined by being a first born male. Second born males got fucked over. That's what they rejected. They sure as shit weren't saying, "Hoorah for female suffrage some time in the future." This distorted vision of America's founders is no more sophisticated than imagining Fred Flintstone and his stone age car, and stone age dinosaur crane and Dino the dinosaur dog. It's projecting current concepts into the past and trying to tease out some sort of validation for modern ideas as though they existed in the past when clearly they were never there to begin with.

King George and Lord Uncle Bob to them seemed arbitrary, and to some extent was arbitrary insofar as dominance was cemented by law rather than merit--i.e., competition. However, there are differences that aren't arbitrary. The difference between men and women isn't arbitrary. There is no social construct or caprice involved that will give me an advantage in physical strength or aerobic endurance over you, or superior spatial-temporal reasoning, or your superior nurturing abilities compared to that of men. We are fundamentally wired that way.

What does your man say? The reptilian brain always wins...

So what happens when the liberal comes along and says, "Men and women are equal. This idea that women need chaperones is absurd! We need to do away with these old, misguided, outdated notions." The military officer says, "No, if we have women in the military there will be all sorts of social conflicts and it will reduce unit cohesion and combat readiness." The liberal always replies--and Adolf Hitler argued this point very well in Mein Kampf (ascribing it to Jews of course)--that "there is no reason, blah blah blah, this can't be done." This is a play on ignorance. There is a reason. It's just that people are ignorant of the reasons. So they are teased into adopting liberal policies. Then what do you get? Stories of sexual harassment at work, date rape on the co-ed college dormitory, Top Gun/Red Dog hot shot male pilots groping female military personnel. Roll right back to your man. What does he say? The reptilian brain always wins...

From 1960 forward with just about every major social upheaval, a conservative with some confidence and understanding of these dynamics can just sit their smugly and say, "I told ya so..."

Tainari88 wrote:To think Trump is some kind of sympathetic figure for Latinos or Blacks or that he is not a class conscious man with tremendous horrifically discriminatory thoughts running around in his head?

Horrific because they are not inline with Erich Fromm's vision? We can argue for even more heartless abstractions and say, we are nothing more than self-sustaining bio-chemical reactions. At one level of abstraction, that is very much the case. However, abstraction is just a controlled form of ignorance--something computer programmers (at least ones skilled in object-oriented programming) understand intuitively. Ignoring differences doesn't make them go away.

Tainari88 wrote:Do you think he respects women?

Certainly their procreative capabilities. He's had children with each of his wives.

Tainari88 wrote:You paint him as some not so bad guy trying to do his best in a sea of shady characters.

I see some of the same attributes you do, but I relish throwing him into the Washington swamp to stir the shit up. I do think Charles Schumer, Adam Schiff, et. al. are far shadier than anything Trump could muster on his worst day. I mean he hasn't tried to gaslight the entire country about Russia, for example.

Tainari88 wrote:He is not a policy expert, a statesman or even a mediocre intellect.

Policy experts, statesmen and intellects have generally been hostile to what's good for working class people. There is very good reason that the blue collar working class trusts Trump, but doesn't trust them at all.

Tainari88 wrote:He is a manipulator and a very very aggressive competitive egotist.

Egotist? Yes. Absolutely. Manipulator and very very aggressive compared to John Bolton, Adam Schiff, Charles Schumer, Jeb Bush, Hillary Clinton? No. He barks like a Rottweiler and bites like a Bichon. Only after having been impeached in his third year in office has he finally, FINALLY!!, fired 80 Obama holdovers from the national security staff--something he should have done in his first week in office. I understand his flaws and weaknesses. The reality is that he's actually a much nicer guy than Hillary Clinton--"We came, we saw, he died! Haha!" <--That was the alternative. Those people are pretty savage themselves, but they cloak it in political correctness and better table manners. As they say of the upper class in the UK, they kick you in the teeth oh so politely.

Tainari88 wrote:Something you also think is acceptable Blackjack.

I see it as war. Nothing less. So I accept the associated horrors, and find it funny that the establishment is horrified by Trump's demeanor yet have no qualms whatsoever about the humanitarian disaster associated with the attempted overthrow of the Assad regime and the politically destablizing after effects that led to Brexit, Gilets Jaunes/Le Pen, AfD, Lege, Syriza, etc. Oh, John Kerry is so nuanced! Oh, what manners! Oh, what panache! How many people has Trump killed by comparison? Trump is a veritable cream puff compared to the establishment. Seriously. Think about it. Stack up the bodies killed by Trump versus bodies killed by Obama or Bush. You think Trump is that bad guy? Really?

Tainari88 wrote:Once you get tired of living in fear....you have to allow hope and what comes with it to reign.

I'm enjoying this so much, because it's Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, et. al. who are living in fear now. It is they who will have to come to the bargaining table in time. They haven't so far. They tried to destroy Trump, and they are getting their clocks cleaned. Sooner or later, they will have to realize that they either have to put the American worker first and allow a wave of prosperity here (as pols in Europe will also have to concede), or they will lose control of the most productive people and arable lands on the planet, and maybe even have to face a plurality of little Hitlers all over the place.

Tainari88 wrote:Like I said, we moved out of the reptilian a long time ago in terms of higher functions. USE IT. Or LOSE IT.

Sure. Now we know how to make nuclear weapons, cocaine, VX nerve agent, crystal methamphetamine, fighter planes, contraceptives, electronic surveillance devices, and propaganda, etc. :eek:
By Hindsite
#15066783
@blackjack21
I remember seeing some news interviews of Assad from the past and he always seemed like a nice reasonable leader to me. What happened that made the Obama administration turn against him?
User avatar
By blackjack21
#15066849
Hindsite wrote:I remember seeing some news interviews of Assad from the past and he always seemed like a nice reasonable leader to me. What happened that made the Obama administration turn against him?

Iranian proxy, Hezbollah support, etc. Seeking fissile material along with Iraq, Iran and Libya. Assad was educated in the UK, speaks English, etc. The problem with nuclear weapons is that they no longer serve a military purpose, but are certainly useful as terror weapons. If you dropped a nuke on Manhattan during WWII, it would knock out lots of manufacturing and totally disrupt the financial system of the United States. Today, it would kill a lot of people and probably disrupt the media. Manufacturing is mostly elsewhere and financial markets are computerized and distributed even though the NYSE still has a trading floor on Wall Street. During WWII, we'd lose 25% of bombing sorties and miss targets probably 80% of the time. So a nuclear weapon was a way to destroy an industrial area without a lot of precision. It saved lives and did the job. Today, smart bombs and cruise missiles can hit what needs destroying while leaving everything else intact--a dream come true for capitalist conquerors. For terrorists, mass killing of civilians would be just fine by contrast. So the idea of nuclear weapons in the hands of terror-sponsoring states has the Pentagon utterly spooked.

I think it would be funny for Trump to tweet something about Pelosi and Assad.

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By Tainari88
#15066944
blackjack21 wrote:Yes. That's the limbic system.


That's reptilian--primitive.


It's not more a leap than a band of chimpanzees fighting with other bands of chimpanzees over territory. Lots of animals are territorial and will kill each other over territory. It's not limited to humans by any stretch of the imagination. Within groups you have dominance hierarchies too. It's as true of silverback gorillas as it is with chickens and their pecking orders. You see Donald Trump as some horrible human being and the establishment as horrible human beings, and Erich Fromm socialists as good human beings. I see a power struggle from an old decrepit order getting challenged by a new one that is leaner and more efficient. It is no different than a younger, stronger silver back gorilla deciding its time to challenge the older dominant gorilla.

You've read Yuval Nova Harari too. What did he note in Sapiens? That humans ability to organize and specialize allowed them to create larger groups than the 20-30 persons that would typically be part of a troop. That's about the natural size of silver back gorilla troops. About platoon size.


In-group preference is natural. Whether I place a value on it or not is rather immaterial in the larger scheme of things. "Non human" in some way is your way of trying to make what I'm saying morally wrong and therefore defensibly objectionable. I'm saying that makes no difference to the reptilian brain. It makes no difference to the in-group preferences of silver back gorillas for gorillas within their own troop. Does that make silver back gorillas racist? Sexist? Xenophobic? Perhaps. However, I see little point in trying to institute moral reforms among silver back gorillas. That's how they are wired.


As I've explained to you many times, Charles Murray in his Bell Curve was not trying to say, "Hey, black people are stupid, so let's not bother educating them." He was lamenting that the elites of the day decided to eliminate wood shop, metal shop, auto shop, etc. from high schools and then send people who were ill-prepared to compete into colleges and universities, only to flunk out and be saddled with debt or as is now the case redirected to degrees in black studies, women's studies, Asian studies, etc. where they have learned to nurture a grudge against white people at enormous expense in exchange for a college degree that is worth less than a diploma from Trump University. Whereas, I work in a world where merit does matter. I work with people all over the world, and they are all high IQ. They are mostly from European or Asian stock--overwhelmingly so. As Murray and many others have noted, it's foolish to assert we are white supremacists when our work is logic and math driven and we are saying Asians are on average better at math than whites. It's hardly a strong argument for white supremacy.


That's multiculturalism in a nutshell. Have you listened to the Sinaloa cartel's way of doing things, identified with their innate sense of humanity and included them at your dinner table as yet? Do you see that spark of divinity in MS-13 murdering rapists that Nancy Pelosi sees? Have you learned to speak Pashto and subordinated yourself to the Taliban elders as their culture demands? I'm guessing the answer to that question is "no."


You mean like the genital mutilation of African woman? That's an interesting cultural difference.


How about comfortable to the point that they decide you are a Takfir and decide to cut your head off? You can take point on this, and I'll be the rear guard. Show us the way Tainari88.


Yeah. Why do you think that leads to a kumbaya moment? Exploiting people also involves logic. Logic isn't inherently good or bad.


Uh huh. Then, we get slackers looking for a free ride. That's true in any system.


As an anthropologist, you should know very well that high IQ people are very adaptable and very capable of dealing with change, but low IQ people generally are not.


Competition is as hard-wired as cooperation. Peace within the group is entirely different from peace between groups.


I don't think it's limited to American society. As I have said, I think one of the key issues that is wrong in the West is stretching egalitarianism beyond its intended purpose. My ancestors weren't saying whites, blacks, women, homosexuals, Christians and Muslims are all equal. They were saying, "Fuck King William and Lord Uncle Bob!" Why? Because they came from privilege but inheritance of land, title, and station were arbitrarily determined by being a first born male. Second born males got fucked over. That's what they rejected. They sure as shit weren't saying, "Hoorah for female suffrage some time in the future." This distorted vision of America's founders is no more sophisticated than imagining Fred Flintstone and his stone age car, and stone age dinosaur crane and Dino the dinosaur dog. It's projecting current concepts into the past and trying to tease out some sort of validation for modern ideas as though they existed in the past when clearly they were never there to begin with.

King George and Lord Uncle Bob to them seemed arbitrary, and to some extent was arbitrary insofar as dominance was cemented by law rather than merit--i.e., competition. However, there are differences that aren't arbitrary. The difference between men and women isn't arbitrary. There is no social construct or caprice involved that will give me an advantage in physical strength or aerobic endurance over you, or superior spatial-temporal reasoning, or your superior nurturing abilities compared to that of men. We are fundamentally wired that way.

What does your man say? The reptilian brain always wins...

So what happens when the liberal comes along and says, "Men and women are equal. This idea that women need chaperones is absurd! We need to do away with these old, misguided, outdated notions." The military officer says, "No, if we have women in the military there will be all sorts of social conflicts and it will reduce unit cohesion and combat readiness." The liberal always replies--and Adolf Hitler argued this point very well in Mein Kampf (ascribing it to Jews of course)--that "there is no reason, blah blah blah, this can't be done." This is a play on ignorance. There is a reason. It's just that people are ignorant of the reasons. So they are teased into adopting liberal policies. Then what do you get? Stories of sexual harassment at work, date rape on the co-ed college dormitory, Top Gun/Red Dog hot shot male pilots groping female military personnel. Roll right back to your man. What does he say? The reptilian brain always wins...

From 1960 forward with just about every major social upheaval, a conservative with some confidence and understanding of these dynamics can just sit their smugly and say, "I told ya so..."


Horrific because they are not inline with Erich Fromm's vision? We can argue for even more heartless abstractions and say, we are nothing more than self-sustaining bio-chemical reactions. At one level of abstraction, that is very much the case. However, abstraction is just a controlled form of ignorance--something computer programmers (at least ones skilled in object-oriented programming) understand intuitively. Ignoring differences doesn't make them go away.


Certainly their procreative capabilities. He's had children with each of his wives.


I see some of the same attributes you do, but I relish throwing him into the Washington swamp to stir the shit up. I do think Charles Schumer, Adam Schiff, et. al. are far shadier than anything Trump could muster on his worst day. I mean he hasn't tried to gaslight the entire country about Russia, for example.


Policy experts, statesmen and intellects have generally been hostile to what's good for working class people. There is very good reason that the blue collar working class trusts Trump, but doesn't trust them at all.


Egotist? Yes. Absolutely. Manipulator and very very aggressive compared to John Bolton, Adam Schiff, Charles Schumer, Jeb Bush, Hillary Clinton? No. He barks like a Rottweiler and bites like a Bichon. Only after having been impeached in his third year in office has he finally, FINALLY!!, fired 80 Obama holdovers from the national security staff--something he should have done in his first week in office. I understand his flaws and weaknesses. The reality is that he's actually a much nicer guy than Hillary Clinton--"We came, we saw, he died! Haha!" <--That was the alternative. Those people are pretty savage themselves, but they cloak it in political correctness and better table manners. As they say of the upper class in the UK, they kick you in the teeth oh so politely.


I see it as war. Nothing less. So I accept the associated horrors, and find it funny that the establishment is horrified by Trump's demeanor yet have no qualms whatsoever about the humanitarian disaster associated with the attempted overthrow of the Assad regime and the politically destablizing after effects that led to Brexit, Gilets Jaunes/Le Pen, AfD, Lege, Syriza, etc. Oh, John Kerry is so nuanced! Oh, what manners! Oh, what panache! How many people has Trump killed by comparison? Trump is a veritable cream puff compared to the establishment. Seriously. Think about it. Stack up the bodies killed by Trump versus bodies killed by Obama or Bush. You think Trump is that bad guy? Really?


I'm enjoying this so much, because it's Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, et. al. who are living in fear now. It is they who will have to come to the bargaining table in time. They haven't so far. They tried to destroy Trump, and they are getting their clocks cleaned. Sooner or later, they will have to realize that they either have to put the American worker first and allow a wave of prosperity here (as pols in Europe will also have to concede), or they will lose control of the most productive people and arable lands on the planet, and maybe even have to face a plurality of little Hitlers all over the place.


Sure. Now we know how to make nuclear weapons, cocaine, VX nerve agent, crystal methamphetamine, fighter planes, contraceptives, electronic surveillance devices, and propaganda, etc. :eek:


Ay Relampaguito what am I going to do with you? Your thoughts and the way you think of the world and the purpose of American society is very very different than how I see it. I wonder if ever you will understand where I am coming from. I understand completely your perspective. The beef I have with it? It is way too limited and scope. I see human beings in a very very long view of things...over thousands and perhaps millions of years from the past, in the present I see them clearly and I see a future that is headed our way in a way that is interesting and not easy to pin down either...but I will try to give you logical and understandable reasons of why I think your way of perceiving things are non solutions and fear based and limited in terms of what humanity is capable of becoming.

Your first answer there? Reptilian brain is primitive. Yes it is. It is the oldest of our origins...in terms of brain function. What happens to our civilizations if we allow the reptilian to take over? A civilization that depends on international relationships, trade, exchange of information diversity of cultural experiences and many other things that the major metropolitan cities in the USA and in the world rely on to have the best of human knowledge, art, science and experience at their fingertips? How does one manage such places sticking to the most primitive part of ourselves only? The most reactive? The one that says that all that is not from my own ethnic background should be embraced, or trusted? That not having access to the entire lands of the world and all that it produces? How does that affect modern societies? Can you be reptilian and keep international capitalist principles going? Yes or no? Answer that one Relampaguito and we shall move on to other sorts of logic.

You are a big ball of fear Blackjack21. African vaginal mutilations, Takfir, Taliban, Sinaloa Cartels, etc. If I limited myself to the worst the USA has to offer the world such as KKK lynchings, rednecks who are out there shooting at my mother through motel windows for investigating a Roman Catholic Mexican kid being denied a public school education in a small Oklahoma town and discriminating all day long....violence in school shooting worrying about my little boy getting shot by an American psycho with a gun? Fearing my Black son getting gunned down by cops that see a black male teen and think they are criminals and if you don't rush out to the patio you might find him dead and bleeding to death on the sidewalk...and white men in California thinking their civilization is immune to all the worst humanity has in their hearts and minds? No, I don't let that fear take over Relampaguito. Because I think we can't live like that.

The truth is that if you go out to these places full of the worst of humanity? You wind up learning about why human beings live with this kind of violence, need to control others, and abuses of power and authority. And one is defined by how one responds to these problems. Your solution is to fight it with fear and not dealing with the root causes of all these social ills? What do you think it is? One of them is poverty, the other is corruption, the other is imperialism and interfering in the processes that belong to the people who form part of the that culture. If people are subjugated and oppressed and they have to cope with a huge and oppressive apparatus? How does one deal with that? As a Puerto Rican I know exactly how that feels Blackjack. Some foreign culture invading, imposing their language, values and extracting things from you without a thought about the well being of the people they are subjugating....destroying their society for selfish gain. Yes, I know how that feels....

And I can tell you? It doesn't feel good. I never felt safe in this USA paradise of freedom you think your nation is Relampaguito. Puerto Rican socialists pro independence were hunted by the FBI and were politically persecuted ruthlessly by your paradise of freedom Relampaguito.

Yet I found a way to see all people as human. Even Right Wing fear based men...who see the Taliban under every rock and tree.

You keep thinking that people have to be all the same with the same abilities for me to believe in equality. They don't. Don't you get it by now? I have to make it so explicit? I will. You need to understand that your high IQ doesn't make you superior in needs to the person who is low IQ. Both of you are human. You both need a home and a place to poop and pee, and a bed to sleep in and food to eat, and electricity to do things in the eveing with, and you need sex and you need affection and acceptance. It doesn't depend on IQ. It depends on realizing you have human commonality. You are equal in that sense. In your innate humanity and what that means in terms of being human and having your needs met. Do you need me to repeat what the premise of socialism is? To each according to their abilities and to each according to their needs.

What does it mean? A person will have needs, no matter if they are not very athletic or are very athletic, no matter if they are of African ancestry or European ancestry, no matter if they are very intelligent or are marginally intelligent, whether they are male or female, gay or straight, short or tall, old or young...all HAVE NEEDS. Human needs. That makes us common in our needs for life. What should a government be doing? For a socialist like I am? Meeting those needs in a fair and equitable way. Without favoring the needs of the high IQ and the ones with the large bank accounts above the ones with the small bank accounts. To lessen the effects of power being skewed and gaps and resentments being cumulative leading to destabilizations and waste. Do you understand that now? Mr. High IQ. You seem to think that because you are high IQ and there are ídiots out there? That somehow their needs are non existent and should not be counted on....what the hell you are so into your own definitions of what is valued and what is not? In your own mind? You discard human needs like it is not important. I am here to say it is very very important to cope with meeting human needs. Even the damn Taliban has to deal with the dilemmas of their members. They do it in a way that is regressive and oppressive and top down in authoritarianism but they got to cope with meeting the Taliban members needs. Do you ever give any of this real thought? Or are you caught up in the fear of a Taliban invasion of the USA and the decent white folks properties being taken over by the Caliphate by a bunch of people who are not exactly wealthy, speak another language and live in another cultural matrix that you never lived yourself?

One of the rules is to go out there and live in the supposedly fearful part of human cultures....figure out what it is about. The customs, the thoughts behind it. I am sure African genital mutilation for women has to do with fearing women's power of feeling. Having orgasms and maybe multiple ones that men may not have...the centrality of women in African life. They are the ones dealing with trade, with property and are the center of family life and many African cultures feature women as Earth figures....if she has too much power the males are weakened...how to weaken their influence because men feel threatened by it? Cut her clitoris off...that is a start. What they will find out is that instead of making them submissive they become subversive and eventually that practice will either be reversed or the women will organize and transform the society. But can one find men who are fearful of feminine forms of power in the USA society? Sure.....it just doesn't entail a razor blade and a clitoris being cut...it has to do with sexual harrassment at Fox News and women having to give oral sex to some ugly, old fat man like Roger Ailes to get ahead in their careers.

Relampaguito, do I have to go over all your fear based problems?

What do I have to do with the Sinaloa Cartels in my life? I don't deal drugs, I am not a drug addict and I am not what the majority of these drug dealers are....criminals and desperate people who never had to face up to the truth that in life? You got to accept limits on what one can accomplish in a system that is about lack of justice. You got to struggle and make correct choices regardless of what it means in terms of never having money and never having any status in the society. But you retain your morality and your dignity in the face of degrading poverty. What I most admired about my husband Relampaguito? Is that he grew up in a very bad ghetto in Puerto Rico where crime, drugs and problems were rampant, but he always made great choices, choosing art, music, learning, sport and intellect....and he was humble, poor and very very loving and he made good choices always. Never took the wrong path. Despite maybe it having its attractions....he was innately wise always. He never let his environment define his actions.

He had internal strength.

It is interesting how you don't see connection between these cultures with your own. I find that interesting....it means you are not self aware...despite your high IQ.

You can't allow what might go wrong in human society make you think there is no hope but force, violence and fear of the other....as the only way to go.

You got to aspire for something better for all of us and work hard to obtain it. That is the answer to all that. Always. Struggle and not allowing fear of what is completely human (the best and the worst of what we are capable of as a species) to define our choices.

Primates are interesting. They love deeply, and eventually will accept strangers into their midst. Jane Goodall did a fine study on that....they have a lot in common with us. But the chimps and the big apes all have one thing in common....they all are communal animals and find their meaning in each other. That is one very deeply rooted thing we need to hold on to Blackjack.

Because if we don't? We lose our way.

Relampaguito, I have limited time but I can say a lot in this response. So I will continue. That entire paragraph about The Bell Curve man? Didn't you get how condescending that sounds? The Blacks need wood shop and so on back because they are not good at rocket science and so on? What the hell? Didn't you get that the vast majority of scientists dealing with genes already concluded that there exists tremendous variation in each racial or genetic group. What does that mean? That among all Black sub-saharan Africans there are tremendous variants at play. Some of them are good for wood shop, others for spatial and geometic mathematical skills, others for science, others for art, others for many other professions. Malcolm X was told long ago he was a very good orator and debater....he wanted to be a lawyer....and was told, "Boy, you need to do something with your hands. That is all you people are good for." Many things happened. He became a criminal, then he got into religion and then into organizing African Americans in the transformation of their rights....W.E.B DuBois was a communist, a very great intellect. His ancestors were African true, but also Dutch, and he was mixed. So are many people pulling genes from all kinds of people...recessive and dominant alleles....all in infinite combinations. Making generalized statements about millions of people and billions of people and not being thorough about their diets, their educational exposures, their influences, their minds and their proclivities and trying to make a very complex genetic code into overarching simplifications like the Black students in public school should get wood shop or mechanics or x or y....?

What should be happening Relampaguito are people identifying the abilities of each student and not allowing the categorization to be based on some property tax base socioeconomic hierarchy to be determining the ultimate potential inherent in each group. Don't stereotype or box people in. Allow the space for growth and give people the tools to be all finding their place in society according to their true potentials.

Many studies have been done....on Africans. The African Americans tend to respond and get results from American society that are very different than the ones who grow up in Africa in all African societies. It makes sense. The American Black people are colonized. I know what that means. Puerto Rico is colonized. It is a very different pyschological state. I am sure you don't understand it. At all.

I now think you are incapable of understanding things outside of your own experience. Before I thought you more capable...

Maybe you still are....but it will take a lot of work from you.

You are such a bright man with such a fine mind. But that lack of corazon is impeding your freedom....it is.

I will be back later to keep responding.
By Hindsite
#15066988
Tainari88 wrote:Ay Relampaguito what am I going to do with you? Your thoughts and the way you think of the world and the purpose of American society is very very different than how I see it. I wonder if ever you will understand where I am coming from. I understand completely your perspective. The beef I have with it? It is way too limited and scope. I see human beings in a very very long view of things...over thousands and perhaps millions of years from the past, in the present I see them clearly and I see a future that is headed our way in a way that is interesting and not easy to pin down either...but I will try to give you logical and understandable reasons of why I think your way of perceiving things are non solutions and fear based and limited in terms of what humanity is capable of becoming.

Your first answer there? Reptilian brain is primitive. Yes it is. It is the oldest of our origins...in terms of brain function. What happens to our civilizations if we allow the reptilian to take over? A civilization that depends on international relationships, trade, exchange of information diversity of cultural experiences and many other things that the major metropolitan cities in the USA and in the world rely on to have the best of human knowledge, art, science and experience at their fingertips? How does one manage such places sticking to the most primitive part of ourselves only? The most reactive? The one that says that all that is not from my own ethnic background should be embraced, or trusted? That not having access to the entire lands of the world and all that it produces? How does that affect modern societies? Can you be reptilian and keep international capitalist principles going? Yes or no? Answer that one Relampaguito and we shall move on to other sorts of logic.

You are a big ball of fear Blackjack21. African vaginal mutilations, Takfir, Taliban, Sinaloa Cartels, etc. If I limited myself to the worst the USA has to offer the world such as KKK lynchings, rednecks who are out there shooting at my mother through motel windows for investigating a Roman Catholic Mexican kid being denied a public school education in a small Oklahoma town and discriminating all day long....violence in school shooting worrying about my little boy getting shot by an American psycho with a gun? Fearing my Black son getting gunned down by cops that see a black male teen and think they are criminals and if you don't rush out to the patio you might find him dead and bleeding to death on the sidewalk...and white men in California thinking their civilization is immune to all the worst humanity has in their hearts and minds? No, I don't let that fear take over Relampaguito. Because I think we can't live like that.

The truth is that if you go out to these places full of the worst of humanity? You wind up learning about why human beings live with this kind of violence, need to control others, and abuses of power and authority. And one is defined by how one responds to these problems. Your solution is to fight it with fear and not dealing with the root causes of all these social ills? What do you think it is? One of them is poverty, the other is corruption, the other is imperialism and interfering in the processes that belong to the people who form part of the that culture. If people are subjugated and oppressed and they have to cope with a huge and oppressive apparatus? How does one deal with that? As a Puerto Rican I know exactly how that feels Blackjack. Some foreign culture invading, imposing their language, values and extracting things from you without a thought about the well being of the people they are subjugating....destroying their society for selfish gain. Yes, I know how that feels....

And I can tell you? It doesn't feel good. I never felt safe in this USA paradise of freedom you think your nation is Relampaguito. Puerto Rican socialists pro independence were hunted by the FBI and were politically persecuted ruthlessly by your paradise of freedom Relampaguito.

Yet I found a way to see all people as human. Even Right Wing fear based men...who see the Taliban under every rock and tree.

You keep thinking that people have to be all the same with the same abilities for me to believe in equality. They don't. Don't you get it by now? I have to make it so explicit? I will. You need to understand that your high IQ doesn't make you superior in needs to the person who is low IQ. Both of you are human. You both need a home and a place to poop and pee, and a bed to sleep in and food to eat, and electricity to do things in the eveing with, and you need sex and you need affection and acceptance. It doesn't depend on IQ. It depends on realizing you have human commonality. You are equal in that sense. In your innate humanity and what that means in terms of being human and having your needs met. Do you need me to repeat what the premise of socialism is? To each according to their abilities and to each according to their needs.

What does it mean? A person will have needs, no matter if they are not very athletic or are very athletic, no matter if they are of African ancestry or European ancestry, no matter if they are very intelligent or are marginally intelligent, whether they are male or female, gay or straight, short or tall, old or young...all HAVE NEEDS. Human needs. That makes us common in our needs for life. What should a government be doing? For a socialist like I am? Meeting those needs in a fair and equitable way. Without favoring the needs of the high IQ and the ones with the large bank accounts above the ones with the small bank accounts. To lessen the effects of power being skewed and gaps and resentments being cumulative leading to destabilizations and waste. Do you understand that now? Mr. High IQ. You seem to think that because you are high IQ and there are ídiots out there? That somehow their needs are non existent and should not be counted on....what the hell you are so into your own definitions of what is valued and what is not? In your own mind? You discard human needs like it is not important. I am here to say it is very very important to cope with meeting human needs. Even the damn Taliban has to deal with the dilemmas of their members. They do it in a way that is regressive and oppressive and top down in authoritarianism but they got to cope with meeting the Taliban members needs. Do you ever give any of this real thought? Or are you caught up in the fear of a Taliban invasion of the USA and the decent white folks properties being taken over by the Caliphate by a bunch of people who are not exactly wealthy, speak another language and live in another cultural matrix that you never lived yourself?

One of the rules is to go out there and live in the supposedly fearful part of human cultures....figure out what it is about. The customs, the thoughts behind it. I am sure African genital mutilation for women has to do with fearing women's power of feeling. Having orgasms and maybe multiple ones that men may not have...the centrality of women in African life. They are the ones dealing with trade, with property and are the center of family life and many African cultures feature women as Earth figures....if she has too much power the males are weakened...how to weaken their influence because men feel threatened by it? Cut her clitoris off...that is a start. What they will find out is that instead of making them submissive they become subversive and eventually that practice will either be reversed or the women will organize and transform the society. But can one find men who are fearful of feminine forms of power in the USA society? Sure.....it just doesn't entail a razor blade and a clitoris being cut...it has to do with sexual harrassment at Fox News and women having to give oral sex to some ugly, old fat man like Roger Ailes to get ahead in their careers.

Relampaguito, do I have to go over all your fear based problems?

What do I have to do with the Sinaloa Cartels in my life? I don't deal drugs, I am not a drug addict and I am not what the majority of these drug dealers are....criminals and desperate people who never had to face up to the truth that in life? You got to accept limits on what one can accomplish in a system that is about lack of justice. You got to struggle and make correct choices regardless of what it means in terms of never having money and never having any status in the society. But you retain your morality and your dignity in the face of degrading poverty. What I most admired about my husband Relampaguito? Is that he grew up in a very bad ghetto in Puerto Rico where crime, drugs and problems were rampant, but he always made great choices, choosing art, music, learning, sport and intellect....and he was humble, poor and very very loving and he made good choices always. Never took the wrong path. Despite maybe it having its attractions....he was innately wise always. He never let his environment define his actions.

He had internal strength.

It is interesting how you don't see connection between these cultures with your own. I find that interesting....it means you are not self aware...despite your high IQ.

You can't allow what might go wrong in human society make you think there is no hope but force, violence and fear of the other....as the only way to go.

You got to aspire for something better for all of us and work hard to obtain it. That is the answer to all that. Always. Struggle and not allowing fear of what is completely human (the best and the worst of what we are capable of as a species) to define our choices.

Primates are interesting. They love deeply, and eventually will accept strangers into their midst. Jane Goodall did a fine study on that....they have a lot in common with us. But the chimps and the big apes all have one thing in common....they all are communal animals and find their meaning in each other. That is one very deeply rooted thing we need to hold on to Blackjack.

Because if we don't? We lose our way.

Relampaguito, I have limited time but I can say a lot in this response. So I will continue. That entire paragraph about The Bell Curve man? Didn't you get how condescending that sounds? The Blacks need wood shop and so on back because they are not good at rocket science and so on? What the hell? Didn't you get that the vast majority of scientists dealing with genes already concluded that there exists tremendous variation in each racial or genetic group. What does that mean? That among all Black sub-saharan Africans there are tremendous variants at play. Some of them are good for wood shop, others for spatial and geometic mathematical skills, others for science, others for art, others for many other professions. Malcolm X was told long ago he was a very good orator and debater....he wanted to be a lawyer....and was told, "Boy, you need to do something with your hands. That is all you people are good for." Many things happened. He became a criminal, then he got into religion and then into organizing African Americans in the transformation of their rights....W.E.B DuBois was a communist, a very great intellect. His ancestors were African true, but also Dutch, and he was mixed. So are many people pulling genes from all kinds of people...recessive and dominant alleles....all in infinite combinations. Making generalized statements about millions of people and billions of people and not being thorough about their diets, their educational exposures, their influences, their minds and their proclivities and trying to make a very complex genetic code into overarching simplifications like the Black students in public school should get wood shop or mechanics or x or y....?

What should be happening Relampaguito are people identifying the abilities of each student and not allowing the categorization to be based on some property tax base socioeconomic hierarchy to be determining the ultimate potential inherent in each group. Don't stereotype or box people in. Allow the space for growth and give people the tools to be all finding their place in society according to their true potentials.

Many studies have been done....on Africans. The African Americans tend to respond and get results from American society that are very different than the ones who grow up in Africa in all African societies. It makes sense. The American Black people are colonized. I know what that means. Puerto Rico is colonized. It is a very different pyschological state. I am sure you don't understand it. At all.

I now think you are incapable of understanding things outside of your own experience. Before I thought you more capable...

Maybe you still are....but it will take a lot of work from you.

You are such a bright man with such a fine mind. But that lack of corazon is impeding your freedom....it is.

I will be back later to keep responding.

Please don't. You seem to have been influenced by some crazy cult while in Mexico.
By late
#15066994
Hindsite wrote:
Please don't. You seem to have been influenced by some crazy cult while in Mexico.



No, you simply don't understand what she's saying.
User avatar
By Tainari88
#15067008
late wrote:No, you simply don't understand what she's saying.


No, he doesn't. What I am hoping is @blackjack21 will give it a try to understand.

I think BJ is worried about the direction of American society. And I still have not gotten a clear picture of what he wants to see in the USA and why he thinks he has to destroy the Republican and Democratic parties to replace them with what? His version of what should happen? I wish he would tell me what that is?

Because he is not open about it. I have speculated about it late? But I have an interesting feeling that he wants something traditional, and class based, peaceful, and logical for him.

There is something profoundly interesting about Blackjack21. He wants a society that is this clean well run thing...like one of his codes....and he fears they will take it and run with it and distort its purpose...like his technologies that could e perverted to serve ulterior purpsoses...

He is one of the most clean thinkers I have ever encountered. But I digress....can't give away my aces yet now in a man who loves card games? Lol.

I have a lot of affection for men who are a bit in their own heads. And BJ is one of them.
User avatar
By jimjam
#15067014
WHEW!!

Tainari88 is the winner. She loves people.

BJ21 loses. He loves money.

:)
By Hindsite
#15067017
jimjam wrote:WHEW!!

Tainari88 is the winner. She loves people.

BJ21 loses. He loves money.

:)

I'm a winner too. I also love people, like Donald and Melania Trump.
Praise the Lord.
User avatar
By jimjam
#15067094
Tainari88 wrote:I now think you are incapable of understanding things outside of your own experience. Before I thought you more capable...


He has no understanding of the grave ….. Doorless is that house and dark it is within. My perspective on life is enhanced from the lee of the grave.
Last edited by jimjam on 14 Feb 2020 18:02, edited 1 time in total.
By Hindsite
#15067097
Tainari88 wrote:No, he doesn't. What I am hoping is @blackjack21 will give it a try to understand.

I think BJ is worried about the direction of American society. And I still have not gotten a clear picture of what he wants to see in the USA and why he thinks he has to destroy the Republican and Democratic parties to replace them with what? His version of what should happen? I wish he would tell me what that is?

Because he is not open about it. I have speculated about it late? But I have an interesting feeling that he wants something traditional, and class based, peaceful, and logical for him.

There is something profoundly interesting about Blackjack21. He wants a society that is this clean well run thing...like one of his codes....and he fears they will take it and run with it and distort its purpose...like his technologies that could e perverted to serve ulterior purpsoses...

He is one of the most clean thinkers I have ever encountered. But I digress....can't give away my aces yet now in a man who loves card games? Lol.

I have a lot of affection for men who are a bit in their own heads. And BJ is one of them.

Oh my gosh. What a load of bull.
User avatar
By Tainari88
#15067213
jimjam wrote:He has no understanding of the gave ….. Doorless is that house and dark it is within. My perspective on life is enhanced from the lee of the grave.



This thread is about propaganda. What happens when people are exposed to these distorted stories of what Mexico and Mexican life is about? They think cartels and death threats are the normal thing. Everything is blown out of proportion. I hate it when people start telling me about drug dealers when they mention either Puerto Rico or Mexico? Do they honestly think that every damn day and every Latin person in Latin America is into drug dealing? They are STUPID in the extreme if they think that.

The vast majority of Mexican, Puerto Ricans, Colombians, etc are decent regular working people. Hairstylists, barbers, doctors, lawyers, engineers, architects, construction workers, government workers, pizza makers, etc. Regular folk. Trying to make a living. I am impressed with the private schools in this city. For elementary school students. They use neuroscience for the learning processes of the children. They use cutting edge research, they combine it with a warm and caring Latin American style with the kids and they are fantastic educators. Do they feature that on TV in the states? No they don't. Drug dealers get the spotlight.

When I think of my home nation Puerto Rico I think about who I knew and met and was exposed to when I was little and as a young woman. My mother was a top performing university student who was brilliant in every way. She was brilliant. Got great professors from all over the globe. The first boss she had in San Diego was a Mexican with a very elite education who's parents were from El Pedregal (a rich neighborhood in Mexico City). The first Mexicans she met in her life were a bunch of ultra educated Mexicans with international diplomatic experience. The Chicano gangs of Los Angeles weren't the people she knew and understood about Mexican life. Yet these people who fear the Sinaloa Cartels all they see of Mexican life are one dimensional bullshit images about drug dealers. Too many movies they see and the propaganda they swallow as reality is very very damaging to Mexico and its goals to improve tourism and trade.

There is going to be an internal war against the cartels. But it is a long and difficult process because the corruption that allows these things to happen is entrenched and the people involved are in positions of influence. Not much different than in the USA. Where they are corrupted by money and swayed by political power and money combined. Do you blame the entire society for some drug dealers in the USA and think that every American is a drug dealer? I don't. But somehow they think that Mexico is some bullshit about drugs only. It is INSULTING in the extreme. As well as being false.

Rule of law they say rules the USA and that makes them different. Money buys justice in Mexico like money buys justice in the USA. Somehow they don't see that. They don't see the violence in USA society. They don't even see that Mexico is not a warmongering machine invading nations and having 20 years of continual war.....for reasons that are very hard to justify. Propaganda is not even working. Fewer people are trusting commercial news sources.

What Puerto Rico needs is independence and the USA and banks wipe out all debts and give the Puerto Ricans money for having had Puerto Rican men and women die in every USA war since 1917. Without the ability of voting for president or having congresspeople or senators that send them into battle to die for what? People who disrespect them and keep them in limbo undemocratic shitty states. They need to get the hell out and give us our money for all the blood they spilled in their blood filled, greed fueled wars of SHIT!

And in terms of Mexico? They need to stop having such a shit value society in the USA that the only way of entertaining themselves and escaping their lack of emotional courage is to self medicate with illegal narcotics all day long and having pill popping crisis, heroine overdose crisis, prescription drug crisis, meth crisis, coke snorting crisis, illegal marijuana without regulations crisis, and alcoholics, and every other addiction problem crisis.

Fix your own screwed up, expensive to the point of Americans working full time and sleeping in cars in empty parking lots in California because they can't afford an apartment.....I show this video to some average plumber guy named Armando born and raised in Yucatan here and he is SHOCKED! He got his house through a Mexican program called Infonavit. Average workers get mortgages at low rates sponsored by a government agency in Mexico so that they can own their own homes and not be homeless. They work with them to make sure they retain their property and it favors them a lot versus greedy banks making money off of mortgage loans.

Do the Americans know that the Mexican government deals with housing better in cities like Merida than they do for Californians working full time living in cars? No, they don't. Because the damn propaganda is controlled and they don't want them to know other Third World countries got better programs for their people than the first world land of milk and honey does @jimjam . It is appalling.

Here is the video of California poverty:



The bullshit about the poor being lazy and not wanting to get ahead. They aren't doing anything. Laid off and screwed. Can't pay rent. $2000. Eat out. Don't have a kitchen.

No, this is not something unique. It has to do with living on incomes that just don't make it.

The Mexicans cope with poverty on a mass scale of low incomes. They come up with ideas on how to stabilize very poor communities. The USA is in crisis. But the propaganda says people in the USA are doing well! Great!

I dealt with homeless people for years. My husband works for Colorado Coalition for the Homeless. Denver is EXPENSIVE. Santa Barbara is expensive. California is very expensive. Rent is terribly high for the actual income earned for the average worker.

There is no profit for affordable housing. The government is the only way to get affordable housing going...but the RIGHT loves to say, "The gov't sucks. Don't allow it into building homes for the homeless. Property values will go down...etc."

Mexico doesn't give a shit about the image of 'rich nation'. It deals with Mexican poverty problems. It is time the USA deal with its own problems and stop thinking the damn drug cartels are what Mexican life is about. It is complex. Human societies are complex. Not simplistic shit. Just like the USA is. Get that through the skulls of those cringing about Taliban, MS 13, and many other crap that doesn't even register on most people's radars. FOCUS on solutions not on FEAR!!

To hell with fear!
User avatar
By blackjack21
#15067326
Tainari88 wrote:I see human beings in a very very long view of things...over thousands and perhaps millions of years from the past, in the present I see them clearly and I see a future that is headed our way in a way that is interesting and not easy to pin down either...but I will try to give you logical and understandable reasons of why I think your way of perceiving things are non solutions and fear based and limited in terms of what humanity is capable of becoming.

That's a debate between the possible and the probable. I'm more inclined to talk about what is likely to happen.

Tainari88 wrote:Your first answer there? Reptilian brain is primitive. Yes it is. It is the oldest of our origins...in terms of brain function. What happens to our civilizations if we allow the reptilian to take over? A civilization that depends on international relationships, trade, exchange of information diversity of cultural experiences and many other things that the major metropolitan cities in the USA and in the world rely on to have the best of human knowledge, art, science and experience at their fingertips? How does one manage such places sticking to the most primitive part of ourselves only? The most reactive? The one that says that all that is not from my own ethnic background should be embraced, or trusted? That not having access to the entire lands of the world and all that it produces? How does that affect modern societies? Can you be reptilian and keep international capitalist principles going? Yes or no? Answer that one Relampaguito and we shall move on to other sorts of logic.

I'm not saying people should be reptilian. I'm just echoing Rapaille's assertion that the reptilian brain always wins. I don't think it should. That's one of the reasons I think the American left aren't much better than animals--constantly pushing hedonism as a value system. You rant on about the drugs, etc. Who has been pushing that lifestyle for the last 60 years in the United States? Pretty much the American left and their secular hedonism. Not unlike 19th Century Romanticism, today's left is also obsessed with emotions.

Tainari88 wrote:You are a big ball of fear Blackjack21. African vaginal mutilations, Takfir, Taliban, Sinaloa Cartels, etc. If I limited myself to the worst the USA has to offer the world such as KKK lynchings, rednecks who are out there shooting at my mother through motel windows for investigating a Roman Catholic Mexican kid being denied a public school education in a small Oklahoma town and discriminating all day long....violence in school shooting worrying about my little boy getting shot by an American psycho with a gun? Fearing my Black son getting gunned down by cops that see a black male teen and think they are criminals and if you don't rush out to the patio you might find him dead and bleeding to death on the sidewalk...and white men in California thinking their civilization is immune to all the worst humanity has in their hearts and minds? No, I don't let that fear take over Relampaguito. Because I think we can't live like that.

You used "love" for differences--an appeal to emotion. I simply pointed out some differences that are horrifying to many people. You don't seem to love political views that aren't consonant with yours. You used "comfortable" with these differences. I'm simply inquiring about why you would be comfortable with people who might see you as worth less than their livestock, because you are a woman? It's not particularly self-serving to find comfort in that sort of thing.

Tainari88 wrote:The truth is that if you go out to these places full of the worst of humanity? You wind up learning about why human beings live with this kind of violence, need to control others, and abuses of power and authority. And one is defined by how one responds to these problems. Your solution is to fight it with fear and not dealing with the root causes of all these social ills? What do you think it is? One of them is poverty, the other is corruption, the other is imperialism and interfering in the processes that belong to the people who form part of the that culture. If people are subjugated and oppressed and they have to cope with a huge and oppressive apparatus? How does one deal with that? As a Puerto Rican I know exactly how that feels Blackjack. Some foreign culture invading, imposing their language, values and extracting things from you without a thought about the well being of the people they are subjugating....destroying their society for selfish gain. Yes, I know how that feels....

Come on now. You weren't around for the Spanish-American War. Imperialism is a double-edged sword. The modern technology of the imperialists has dramatically cut infant mortality, for example. No doubt you received vaccinations, etc. as a child. I'm fine with cutting Puerto Rico loose to be an independent country. No, I don't know how it "feels," but I have plenty of Irish relatives that hate the British for the same sort of thing, but readily traded their hard won sovereignty to the EU for some Euro dosh. The reptilian brain always wins.

Tainari88 wrote:You keep thinking that people have to be all the same with the same abilities for me to believe in equality. They don't. Don't you get it by now? I have to make it so explicit? I will. You need to understand that your high IQ doesn't make you superior in needs to the person who is low IQ. Both of you are human. You both need a home and a place to poop and pee, and a bed to sleep in and food to eat, and electricity to do things in the eveing with, and you need sex and you need affection and acceptance. It doesn't depend on IQ. It depends on realizing you have human commonality. You are equal in that sense. In your innate humanity and what that means in terms of being human and having your needs met. Do you need me to repeat what the premise of socialism is? To each according to their abilities and to each according to their needs.

We don't NEED electricity. Human societies have only had electricity for the better part of 100 years. Modern running water and sewage are attributes of these imperial societies you loath. Before these systems, sewage was everywhere. That's still the case in some parts of the third world.

Tainari88 wrote:What does it mean? A person will have needs, no matter if they are not very athletic or are very athletic, no matter if they are of African ancestry or European ancestry, no matter if they are very intelligent or are marginally intelligent, whether they are male or female, gay or straight, short or tall, old or young...all HAVE NEEDS. Human needs. That makes us common in our needs for life. What should a government be doing? For a socialist like I am? Meeting those needs in a fair and equitable way. Without favoring the needs of the high IQ and the ones with the large bank accounts above the ones with the small bank accounts.

A cab driver in Cuba typically makes more money than a Cuban neurosurgeon. You may see that as equitable, but I think it puts socialist societies at high risk.

Tainari88 wrote:Do you understand that now? Mr. High IQ. You seem to think that because you are high IQ and there are ídiots out there? That somehow their needs are non existent and should not be counted on....

I don't believe I ever said any such thing. I was pointing out what Charles Murray raised in the Bell Curve. He turned out to be right. Rather than intelligently discussing his hypothesis, the media and many in academia simply slammed him as being a racist. He wrote "Coming Apart" to restate the hypothesis among whites so that there was simply no racial controversy in question--again showing the income distribution correlating highly with IQ. In many respects, that effect is amplified in a knowledge-based economy. So the amplitude of that difference is exaggerated now.

Tainari88 wrote:You discard human needs like it is not important. I am here to say it is very very important to cope with meeting human needs.

Where have I done this? You've had this conversation with an imaginary Relampaguito in your own mind, and seem to think that I have asserted everything that you've conjured up in your own head.

Tainari88 wrote:Even the damn Taliban has to deal with the dilemmas of their members. They do it in a way that is regressive and oppressive and top down in authoritarianism but they got to cope with meeting the Taliban members needs. Do you ever give any of this real thought?

Of course. After all, I brought the Taliban up in the context of you finding love in differences and being comfortable with them.

Tainari88 wrote:Or are you caught up in the fear of a Taliban invasion of the USA and the decent white folks properties being taken over by the Caliphate by a bunch of people who are not exactly wealthy, speak another language and live in another cultural matrix that you never lived yourself?

I'm not overly concerned about that; however, I do not think the US should embrace immigration of people who are unlikely to assimilate.

Tainari88 wrote:One of the rules is to go out there and live in the supposedly fearful part of human cultures....figure out what it is about. The customs, the thoughts behind it. I am sure African genital mutilation for women has to do with fearing women's power of feeling. Having orgasms and maybe multiple ones that men may not have...the centrality of women in African life. They are the ones dealing with trade, with property and are the center of family life and many African cultures feature women as Earth figures....if she has too much power the males are weakened...how to weaken their influence because men feel threatened by it? Cut her clitoris off...that is a start. What they will find out is that instead of making them submissive they become subversive and eventually that practice will either be reversed or the women will organize and transform the society. But can one find men who are fearful of feminine forms of power in the USA society? Sure.....it just doesn't entail a razor blade and a clitoris being cut...it has to do with sexual harrassment at Fox News and women having to give oral sex to some ugly, old fat man like Roger Ailes to get ahead in their careers.

Again, Rapaille says the reptilian brain always wins. I noticed you overlooked Harvey Weinstein, Jeffrey Epstein, and the big media houses (and the Clintons) covering up for them.

Tainari88 wrote:What do I have to do with the Sinaloa Cartels in my life? I don't deal drugs, I am not a drug addict and I am not what the majority of these drug dealers are....criminals and desperate people who never had to face up to the truth that in life?

You are the one asserting this egalitarian notion and that you accept all these people as they are--except perhaps for Donald Trump. This philosophy is all well and nice for people who don't mean you any harm, but for people who do mean you harm, this sort of philosophy is quite dangerous.

Tainari88 wrote:It is interesting how you don't see connection between these cultures with your own.

How do you mean that I don't see it?

Tainari88 wrote:You can't allow what might go wrong in human society make you think there is no hope but force, violence and fear of the other....as the only way to go.

I work in high tech. You have this idea of me as some sort of Caudillo. That's not a common trait among tech workers.

Tainari88 wrote:Jane Goodall did a fine study on that....they have a lot in common with us.

They also go to war with each other, which she didn't cover until later in her career.

Tainari88 wrote:That entire paragraph about The Bell Curve man? Didn't you get how condescending that sounds? The Blacks need wood shop and so on back because they are not good at rocket science and so on? What the hell?

Yeah, what the hell? I said, "As I've explained to you many times, Charles Murray in his Bell Curve was not trying to say, "Hey, black people are stupid, so let's not bother educating them." You turn around and parrot the EXACT OPPOSITE of what I said as though I had said that. I didn't say all blacks are stupid, and neither did Charles Murray. What is it about people with your political disposition that you immediately infer things that are not said, not implied, and which have been explained to you over and over? Can you just deal with what I said and not what you would have liked me to have said because it's convenient for your political argument?

Tainari88 wrote:Didn't you get that the vast majority of scientists dealing with genes already concluded that there exists tremendous variation in each racial or genetic group. What does that mean? That among all Black sub-saharan Africans there are tremendous variants at play.

Indeed. There is more genetic diversity among sub-Saharan Africans than among European and Asian populations.

Tainari88 wrote:and trying to make a very complex genetic code into overarching simplifications like the Black students in public school should get wood shop or mechanics or x or y....?

And, once again, I never said any such thing. This is a problem for you. You are assuming that someone who doesn't agree with you must hold a particular opinion, when that isn't the case. You end up arguing against a straw man of your own construction. There are more than two points of view in the world. It's not just your point of view, or the other one.

Tainari88 wrote:What should be happening Relampaguito are people identifying the abilities of each student and not allowing the categorization to be based on some property tax base socioeconomic hierarchy to be determining the ultimate potential inherent in each group. Don't stereotype or box people in. Allow the space for growth and give people the tools to be all finding their place in society according to their true potentials.

I happen to be for school choice. There are a lot of people on the left against it.

Tainari88 wrote:I now think you are incapable of understanding things outside of your own experience. Before I thought you more capable...

:roll: You aren't even capable of listening to what I've said without extrapolating meanings or interpolating points I didn't make. I'm pretty widely travelled. I have seen a lot. My trip to the United Arab Emirates last year was interesting for precisely that reason. It never occurred to me that a country would have taxicabs driven by women that are strictly for women per Islamic prohibitions on women being with another man that isn't their husband. I've seen a lot more than you think I have.

Tainari88 wrote:This thread is about propaganda.

There's also a subtext of why Donald Trump is going to win again. Social media censorship cannot change that.
User avatar
By annatar1914
#15067332
Sometimes I have to keep in mind that people aren't pushed into opinions they don't want to have, but opinions they do want to have (but usually not until they find more weight in numbers behind the opinion).

I myself don't have much use for Evolution or Darwinism, social or otherwise. But what I do know is that there was no doubt an Anthropological disaster at the root of our being. If you want to call this the ''Reptilian Brain'' and lay some of our more problems as a Species to it, that's fine, because we can all agree that It is set purely in one's material needs and drives and nothing else.

But back now to the Propaganda. The secret of Propaganda is that one cannot truly ''persuade'' anyone of anything, those thoughts and passions are already there. What a master persuader can do though is use a set of techniques that convinces someone consciously of what they've already suggested to their unconscious selves. People don't get talked into doing drugs, having sex, and so forth, not really....
By Hindsite
#15067504
annatar1914 wrote:Sometimes I have to keep in mind that people aren't pushed into opinions they don't want to have, but opinions they do want to have (but usually not until they find more weight in numbers behind the opinion).

I myself don't have much use for Evolution or Darwinism, social or otherwise. But what I do know is that there was no doubt an Anthropological disaster at the root of our being. If you want to call this the ''Reptilian Brain'' and lay some of our more problems as a Species to it, that's fine, because we can all agree that It is set purely in one's material needs and drives and nothing else.

But back now to the Propaganda. The secret of Propaganda is that one cannot truly ''persuade'' anyone of anything, those thoughts and passions are already there. What a master persuader can do though is use a set of techniques that convinces someone consciously of what they've already suggested to their unconscious selves. People don't get talked into doing drugs, having sex, and so forth, not really....

To a Christian, like myself, the "Reptilian Brain" must refer back to the great dragon "that old serpent, called the devil and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world." (Rev. 12:9)

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