Tainari88 wrote:Can you agree that all human beings have emotional needs, emotions running through their biological bodies and that they have emotionally imprinted instincts?
Yes. That's the limbic system.
Tainari88 wrote:To survive and to reproduce?
Tainari88 wrote:So how do you jump from this core commonality in all human beings in all nations and in all ethnic and racial categorizations to class systems based on fear, competition, cutting off heads and destroying other societies in order to remain in positions of dominance and supremacy? That is a huge leap....
It's not more a leap than a band of chimpanzees fighting with other bands of chimpanzees over territory. Lots of animals are territorial and will kill each other over territory. It's not limited to humans by any stretch of the imagination. Within groups you have dominance hierarchies too. It's as true of silverback gorillas as it is with chickens and their pecking orders. You see Donald Trump as some horrible human being and the establishment as horrible human beings, and Erich Fromm socialists as good human beings. I see a power struggle from an old decrepit order getting challenged by a new one that is leaner and more efficient. It is no different than a younger, stronger silver back gorilla deciding its time to challenge the older dominant gorilla.
You've read Yuval Nova Harari too. What did he note in Sapiens? That humans ability to organize and specialize allowed them to create larger groups than the 20-30 persons that would typically be part of a troop. That's about the natural size of silver back gorilla troops. About platoon size.
Tainari88 wrote:For you love is placing a value on your own group as worthy of love, acceptance, safety and security, and the 'other' as an alien, a threat, non human in some way and needs to be controlled, excluded and rejected.
In-group preference is natural. Whether I place a value on it or not is rather immaterial in the larger scheme of things. "Non human" in some way is your way of trying to make what I'm saying morally wrong and therefore defensibly objectionable. I'm saying that makes no difference to the reptilian brain. It makes no difference to the in-group preferences of silver back gorillas for gorillas within their own troop. Does that make silver back gorillas racist? Sexist? Xenophobic? Perhaps. However, I see little point in trying to institute moral reforms among silver back gorillas. That's how they are wired.
Tainari88 wrote:You favor your side because you are a white male from the dominant culture of the USA and you grew up with certain privileges that you are not even aware of you having and using your entire life.
As I've explained to you many times, Charles Murray in his Bell Curve was not trying to say, "Hey, black people are stupid, so let's not bother educating them." He was lamenting that the elites of the day decided to eliminate wood shop, metal shop, auto shop, etc. from high schools and then send people who were ill-prepared to compete into colleges and universities, only to flunk out and be saddled with debt or as is now the case redirected to degrees in black studies, women's studies, Asian studies, etc. where they have learned to nurture a grudge against white people at enormous expense in exchange for a college degree that is worth less than a diploma from Trump University. Whereas, I work in a world where merit does matter. I work with people all over the world, and they are all high IQ. They are mostly from European or Asian stock--overwhelmingly so. As Murray and many others have noted, it's foolish to assert we are white supremacists when our work is logic and math driven and we are saying Asians are on average better at math than whites. It's hardly a strong argument for white supremacy.
Tainari88 wrote:You think internationalism is about working with people from other cultures and being able to get something done Relampaguito. It is not. It is about seeing them as equal to you on all levels and that you are willing to learn to speak their native language, listen to their ways of doing things, be able to completely identify with their innate humanity and include them as family along WITH YOUR OWN CULTURE.
That's multiculturalism in a nutshell. Have you listened to the Sinaloa cartel's way of doing things, identified with their innate sense of humanity and included them at your dinner table as yet? Do you see that spark of divinity in MS-13 murdering rapists that Nancy Pelosi sees? Have you learned to speak Pashto and subordinated yourself to the Taliban elders as their culture demands? I'm guessing the answer to that question is "no."
Tainari88 wrote:Expand the circle of inclusion with LOVE for their difference.
You mean like the genital mutilation of African woman? That's an interesting cultural difference.
Tainari88 wrote:To the point in which you feel comfortable with all of them in their vulnerable human flawed existence.
How about comfortable to the point that they decide you are a Takfir and decide to cut your head off? You can take point on this, and I'll be the rear guard. Show us the way Tainari88.
Tainari88 wrote:Cortex is about logic. What is logical? That homo sapiens are all one species. Not two separate species.
Yeah. Why do you think that leads to a kumbaya moment? Exploiting people also involves logic. Logic isn't inherently good or bad.
Tainari88 wrote:That variation within groups is as great as variation between groups. Therefore variation is natural and part of who we are....it doesn't mean that you have to create an economic and social system based on uniformity....what it should be built on are on RIGHTS and on meeting needs. That old premise of socialism called: To each according to their ability and to each according to their need.
Uh huh. Then, we get slackers looking for a free ride. That's true in any system.
Tainari88 wrote:but, you will never be effective getting that core of why human societies need to change...
As an anthropologist, you should know very well that high IQ people are very adaptable and very capable of dealing with change, but low IQ people generally are not.
Tainari88 wrote:The reptilian won't be able to overcome the reality that all of us need the limbic and the cortex in order to find our path to peace. Otherwise? We are not going to make it Relampaguito.
Competition is as hard-wired as cooperation. Peace within the group is entirely different from peace between groups.
Tainari88 wrote:@blackjack21 let me get to the point. What is the solution to what you think is wrong with American society? Feminism? Liberals saying to have mothers not spend time with their babies and toddlers because they must work....? Family neglect based on what? The need for two incomes? This sounds like the reason you gave me for not being married and having children. You think you might end up in divorce court, losing half your income and seeing your children on weekends...because what the women out there in America are into this liberal shit idea of non traditional families? I am trying to figure out what you are thinking is the solution Blackjack?
I don't think it's limited to American society. As I have said, I think one of the key issues that is wrong in the West is stretching egalitarianism beyond its intended purpose. My ancestors weren't saying whites, blacks, women, homosexuals, Christians and Muslims are all equal. They were saying, "Fuck King William and Lord Uncle Bob!" Why? Because they came from privilege but inheritance of land, title, and station were arbitrarily determined by being a first born male. Second born males got fucked over. That's what they rejected. They sure as shit weren't saying, "Hoorah for female suffrage some time in the future." This distorted vision of America's founders is no more sophisticated than imagining Fred Flintstone and his stone age car, and stone age dinosaur crane and Dino the dinosaur dog. It's projecting current concepts into the past and trying to tease out some sort of validation for modern ideas as though they existed in the past when clearly they were never there to begin with.
King George and Lord Uncle Bob to them seemed arbitrary, and to some extent was arbitrary insofar as dominance was cemented by law rather than merit--i.e., competition. However, there are differences that aren't arbitrary. The difference between men and women isn't arbitrary. There is no social construct or caprice involved that will give me an advantage in physical strength or aerobic endurance over you, or superior spatial-temporal reasoning, or your superior nurturing abilities compared to that of men. We are fundamentally wired that way.
What does your man say? The reptilian brain always wins...
So what happens when the liberal comes along and says, "Men and women are equal. This idea that women need chaperones is absurd! We need to do away with these old, misguided, outdated notions." The military officer says, "No, if we have women in the military there will be all sorts of social conflicts and it will reduce unit cohesion and combat readiness." The liberal always replies--and Adolf Hitler argued this point very well in Mein Kampf (ascribing it to Jews of course)--that "there is no reason, blah blah blah, this can't be done." This is a play on ignorance. There is a reason. It's just that people are ignorant of the reasons. So they are teased into adopting liberal policies. Then what do you get? Stories of sexual harassment at work, date rape on the co-ed college dormitory, Top Gun/Red Dog hot shot male pilots groping female military personnel. Roll right back to your man. What does he say? The reptilian brain always wins...
From 1960 forward with just about every major social upheaval, a conservative with some confidence and understanding of these dynamics can just sit their smugly and say, "I told ya so..."
Tainari88 wrote:To think Trump is some kind of sympathetic figure for Latinos or Blacks or that he is not a class conscious man with tremendous horrifically discriminatory thoughts running around in his head?
Horrific because they are not inline with Erich Fromm's vision? We can argue for even more heartless abstractions and say, we are nothing more than self-sustaining bio-chemical reactions. At one level of abstraction, that is very much the case. However, abstraction is just a controlled form of ignorance--something computer programmers (at least ones skilled in object-oriented programming) understand intuitively. Ignoring differences doesn't make them go away.
Tainari88 wrote:Do you think he respects women?
Certainly their procreative capabilities. He's had children with each of his wives.
Tainari88 wrote:You paint him as some not so bad guy trying to do his best in a sea of shady characters.
I see some of the same attributes you do, but I relish throwing him into the Washington swamp to stir the shit up. I do think Charles Schumer, Adam Schiff, et. al. are far shadier than anything Trump could muster on his worst day. I mean he hasn't tried to gaslight the entire country about Russia, for example.
Tainari88 wrote:He is not a policy expert, a statesman or even a mediocre intellect.
Policy experts, statesmen and intellects have generally been hostile to what's good for working class people. There is very good reason that the blue collar working class trusts Trump, but doesn't trust them at all.
Tainari88 wrote:He is a manipulator and a very very aggressive competitive egotist.
Egotist? Yes. Absolutely. Manipulator and very very aggressive compared to John Bolton, Adam Schiff, Charles Schumer, Jeb Bush, Hillary Clinton? No. He barks like a Rottweiler and bites like a Bichon. Only after having been impeached in his third year in office has he finally, FINALLY!!, fired 80 Obama holdovers from the national security staff--something he should have done in his first week in office. I understand his flaws and weaknesses. The reality is that he's actually a much nicer guy than Hillary Clinton--"We came, we saw, he died! Haha!" <--That was the alternative. Those people are pretty savage themselves, but they cloak it in political correctness and better table manners. As they say of the upper class in the UK, they kick you in the teeth oh so politely.
Tainari88 wrote:Something you also think is acceptable Blackjack.
I see it as war. Nothing less. So I accept the associated horrors, and find it funny that the establishment is horrified by Trump's demeanor yet have no qualms whatsoever about the humanitarian disaster associated with the attempted overthrow of the Assad regime and the politically destablizing after effects that led to Brexit, Gilets Jaunes/Le Pen, AfD, Lege, Syriza, etc. Oh, John Kerry is so nuanced! Oh, what manners! Oh, what panache! How many people has Trump killed by comparison? Trump is a veritable cream puff compared to the establishment. Seriously. Think about it. Stack up the bodies killed by Trump versus bodies killed by Obama or Bush. You think Trump is that bad guy? Really?
Tainari88 wrote:Once you get tired of living in fear....you have to allow hope and what comes with it to reign.
I'm enjoying this so much, because it's Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, et. al. who are living in fear now. It is they who will have to come to the bargaining table in time. They haven't so far. They tried to destroy Trump, and they are getting their clocks cleaned. Sooner or later, they will have to realize that they either have to put the American worker first and allow a wave of prosperity here (as pols in Europe will also have to concede), or they will lose control of the most productive people and arable lands on the planet, and maybe even have to face a plurality of little Hitlers all over the place.
Tainari88 wrote:Like I said, we moved out of the reptilian a long time ago in terms of higher functions. USE IT. Or LOSE IT.
Sure. Now we know how to make nuclear weapons, cocaine, VX nerve agent, crystal methamphetamine, fighter planes, contraceptives, electronic surveillance devices, and propaganda, etc.
"If you have a problem figuring out whether you’re for me or Trump, then you ain’t black."
-- Joe Biden to DJ Charlamagne tha God