The important bit happened after Roger Stone was convicted - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15066574
Trump tweeted he was unhappy with Stone's sentence. So consigliere Barr tried to get it reduced. Consigliere is a mafia lawyer, someone not afraid to get dirty.

The four prosecutors in the Stone case refused, and quit.

The judge will have the final say, and if you remember how Stone was a jerk during the trial, I expect he will get what he deserves (according the guidelines in the Sentencing Commission).

The Justice Dept is supposed to avoid even the appearance of involvement in politics. They're not even trying to hide it anymore. This is yet another degradation of democracy.

"By bulldozing into Roger Stone's sentencing, Donald Trump sparked a mutiny by four career prosecutors, raised fears about the impartial administration of justice and showed how his impeachment acquittal unchained an already rampant presidency.
The Justice Department's decision to water down a recommendation by its own prosecutors for Stone to serve up to nine years in prison that outraged the President sent shockwaves through Washington. It also appears to reflect Trump's redoubled determination to escalate pressure on core institutions of the US government to pursue his personal and political priorities."


https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/12/politics/donald-trump-justice-department-roger-stone/index.html
#15066577
late wrote:The Justice Dept is supposed to avoid even the appearance of involvement in politics. They're not even trying to hide it anymore. This is yet another degradation of democracy.

No. It's not. Democracy is rule by popular will. That means that the elected officials determine policy, not the unelected officials. The judge won't have the final say. Ultimately, Trump does, because he has the power to pardon and to commute sentences.

late wrote:"By bulldozing into Roger Stone's sentencing, Donald Trump sparked a mutiny by four career prosecutors, raised fears about the impartial administration of justice and showed how his impeachment acquittal unchained an already rampant presidency.
The Justice Department's decision to water down a recommendation by its own prosecutors for Stone to serve up to nine years in prison that outraged the President sent shockwaves through Washington. It also appears to reflect Trump's redoubled determination to escalate pressure on core institutions of the US government to pursue his personal and political priorities."

Rapists get four years. 9 years is a little harsh for someone who was immaterial to the Russia investigation, which itself was sparked by a phony dossier financed by Hillary Clinton.
#15066580
late wrote:TSo consigliere Barr tried to get it reduced. Consigliere is a mafia lawyer, someone not afraid to get dirty.


You're incorrect.

A person needn't be a lawyer to be a consigliere. A consigliere is merely a trusted advisor, and a person doesn't have to be a lawyer to fill that role.

A lawyer would be avvocato or avvocatessa (if it's a woman).

Who was your college professor? Mario Puzo?

:lol: :lol: :lol:
#15066583
The Mariner wrote:
You're incorrect.

A person needn't be a lawyer to be a consigliere. A consigliere is merely a trusted advisor, and a person doesn't have to be a lawyer to fill that role.




True, but I was making a point, not providing a dictionary definition... He's dirty.

As to your other point, I don't watch mafia movies, so I gladly admit not having expertise in the finer points of the jargon of killers.
#15066586
blackjack21 wrote:
No. It's not. Democracy is rule by popular will. That means that the elected officials determine policy, not the unelected officials. The judge won't have the final say. Ultimately, Trump does, because he has the power to pardon and to commute sentences.


9 years is a little harsh for someone who was immaterial to the Russia investigation, which itself was sparked by a phony dossier financed by Hillary Clinton.




What I said is accurate. Also, the president does not determine Justice Dept policy. The judge has the final say in the courtroom. This situation is disgusting.

Actually, it's not, and Trump is proving why it's not. Democracy is important.
#15066587
late wrote:True, but I was making a point, not providing a dictionary definition... He's dirty.


Well, the point you made, despite the point you were trying to make, is that you're not really up to speed on the topic. You said a consigliere was a mafia lawyer. That's not correct. Mafia affiliation isn't pertinent.

As to your other point, I don't watch mafia movies, so I gladly admit not having expertise in the finer points of the jargon of killers.


I didn't get my education from the movies. My ex-wife's family was Mafia. We managed to keep our distance, but the holidays were always a trip.
#15066591
blackjack21 wrote:No. It's not. Democracy is rule by popular will. That means that the elected officials determine policy, not the unelected officials. The judge won't have the final say. Ultimately, Trump does, because he has the power to pardon and to commute sentences.


Popular will is neither one-sided nor error-free. The judiciary branch serves the purpose of check and balance to both executive and legislative branches. It is ultimately absurd to say one trumps another. Trump has power to pardon or commute sentences for individuals but not overturn judiciary decisions.

And even if it is true that the American System made the executive branch more powerful, it does not mean it is right.


blackjack21 wrote:Rapists get four years. 9 years is a little harsh for someone who was immaterial to the Russia investigation, which itself was sparked by a phony dossier financed by Hillary Clinton.


Assume the "rapists get four years" is true, why is it not the case that the rapists are being sentenced too leniently?

On the other hand, why is not some act of treason (if proved) worth more severe punishment because it can have adverse effect to millions?
#15066625
The Mariner wrote:
Well, the point you made, despite the point you were trying to make, is that you're not really up to speed on the topic.



The topic is Trump using Justice to reward friends and punish enemies.

I am quite willing to admit a mistake, but mafia lingo is simply not the topic.
#15066626
Patrickov wrote:



Assume the "rapists get four years" is true, why is it not the case that the rapists are being sentenced too leniently?

On the other hand, why is not some act of treason (if proved) worth more severe punishment because it can have adverse effect to millions?



The Feds do not typically handle rape cases. When it's part of a larger case, they will, and the sentencing guidelines are either 15 years or unlimited (judge's discretion).

No idea where he pulled that 4 year number.
#15066632
Popular will is neither one-sided nor error-free. The judiciary branch serves the purpose of check and balance to both executive and legislative branches. It is ultimately absurd to say one trumps another. Trump has power to pardon or commute sentences for individuals but not overturn judiciary decisions.


President Trump can not affect State charges. Federal ones yes, State ones, not so much. And there's nothing to stop the State from using the Federal case to re-open it with its own charges, a la Paul Manafort
#15066645
The Mariner wrote:
So asking for a favor is mob like, because you can connect a sentence from a work of fiction to it?



Trump had previously inquired how long Ukraine could survive without our aid.

He knew it was a threat.

That sentence got him impeached, but please, keep making a fool of yourself.
#15066696
Indy wrote:
I'm pretty sure he calls them "mob like" because he heard Adam Schiff use the same term.



David Cay Johnston.

He's a Business and Tax prof that wrote a book about Trump before he became president. It's worth reading.

After Trump pissed some hundreds of millions of his fathers money down the toilet, he started laundering money for mob guys, drug lords and corrupt 3rd world guys.

He picked up a lot from the mob guys.

https://www.amazon.com/Making-Donald-Trump-David-Johnston/dp/161219687X/ref=sr_1_2?crid=38BDYHJ9YI4FL&keywords=david+cay+johnston&qid=1581539031&sprefix=david+cay%2Caps%2C163&sr=8-2

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