[Pants-of-dog]

@Julian658

Does that mean that you cannot show how any of my claims are wrong?

[Julian658]

@Julian658

Does that mean that you cannot show how any of my claims are wrong?

On the contrary! Your assertions are too simplistic and as I have said before passive aggressive.

Pants-of-dog wrote:
Yes, but since you say a lot of unverified things that could very well be wrong, there is no reason to assume that your explanation as to why I am right is worth discussing.

I provided you citations and you dismissed them.

You would not be allowed to move to Cuba.

Why not? Is Cuba a xenophobic nation?

So we agree that the claim I made about the US having relatively few doctors is correct.

POD: The USA and Canada have the same number of doctors per capita and you have said at nauseam that the USA will do badly because of lack of doctors. How will Canada do?

You assume that a high number of docs in the population is best. With your reasoning: Cuba a nation where taxi drivers earn much more than physicians should be the mecca of medicine in the world.

No, the free market is not reacting. At least, not according to the evidence to which you linked but did not quote.

Are you implying that somehow the government can manufacture ventilators faster than the private sector? Do you really believe that?

The articles specifically said that the companies would start to make more masks and ventilators in the future, but that this was part of the government emergency powers.

As of now there is no shortage, but a shortage is a possibility as the number of patients goes up. They are ready to retool the factories to make ventilators. You are a STEM man, perhaps an engineer. You should know it will take some planning to get this done. Why do you post so many platitudes?

[Pants-of-dog]

On the contrary! Your assertions are too simplistic and as I have said before passive aggressive.

You can say whatever you want, but you have not shown how I am wrong.

I provided you citations and you dismissed them.

No, I told you to quote the relevant text. You did not.

Then I pointed out how the articles supported my claim that the free market was not reacting swiftly enough.

Why not? Is Cuba a xenophobic nation?

Google it.

POD: The USA and Canada have the same number of doctors per capita and you have said at nauseam that the USA will do badly because of lack of doctors. How will Canada do?

You assume that a high number of docs in the population is best. With your reasoning: Cuba a nation where taxi drivers earn much more than physicians should be the mecca of medicine in the world.

You seem to have misunderstood.

The fact that Canada also has the same problem does not magically make it not a problem.

Are you implying that somehow the government can manufacture ventilators faster than the private sector? Do you really believe that?

Yes.

Even Trump agrees, which is why he invoked the emergency measures.

As of now there is no shortage, but a shortage is a possibility as the number of patients goes up. They are ready to retool the factories to make ventilators. You are a STEM man, perhaps an engineer. You should know it will take some planning to get this done.

This does not contradict my claim at all.

Why do you post so many platitudes?

Why do you ask these passive aggressive questions?

[Julian658]

You can say whatever you want, but you have not shown how I am wrong.

POD: There is no right or wrong here. You are always focused on winning an argument from a contrarian point of view. This is an unforeseen emergency where people are learning as they go.

No, I told you to quote the relevant text. You did not.

https://cleantechnica.com/2020/03/21/el ... exclusive/

I reached out to Musk for clarification on that topic and he replied that, “We have 250k N95 masks. Aiming to start distributing those to hospitals tomorrow night. Should have over 1000 ventilators by next week.” With medical supplies such as these being one of the biggest bottlenecks and challenges at the moment in the COVID-19 response in the United States (as well as elsewhere) — something that is already having a very real effect on medical professionals and patient care — the support will surely be received with much gratitude. That said, while there has been much attention put on the expected future need for ventilators, very few places reportedly have a shortage of them right now. In much greater need at the moment are simpler supplies like N95 masks, which must be why Tesla/SpaceX is providing 250,000 of them.

Then I pointed out how the articles supported my claim that the free market was not reacting swiftly enough.

Are you willing to make a bet? What is your definition of swift? How quickly should the private sector produce ventilators? Can you provide a number?

Google it.

Nope, tell me why i cannot migrate to Cuba.

The fact that Canada also has the same problem does not magically make it not a problem.

That is correct, but you have been claiming that Cuba does it better because they have more docs per capita. Please explain!

Yes.

Even Trump agrees, which is why he invoked the emergency measures.

The ultimate state of emergency is to have the government nationalize industry. That would be a disaster. Do you agree?

[Pants-of-dog]

POD: There is no right or wrong here. You are always focused on winning an argument from a contrarian point of view. This is an unforeseen emergency where people are learning as they go.

There is a right and wrong.

While it is emergency, it is wrong to argue that everyone is learning as they go, or that everybody was equally unable to foresee it.

Public healthcare systems, with national databases, and a controlled economy have been shown to be more prepared.

https://cleantechnica.com/2020/03/21/el ... exclusive/

I reached out to Musk for clarification on that topic and he replied that, “We have 250k N95 masks. Aiming to start distributing those to hospitals tomorrow night. Should have over 1000 ventilators by next week.” With medical supplies such as these being one of the biggest bottlenecks and challenges at the moment in the COVID-19 response in the United States (as well as elsewhere) — something that is already having a very real effect on medical professionals and patient care — the support will surely be received with much gratitude. That said, while there has been much attention put on the expected future need for ventilators, very few places reportedly have a shortage of them right now. In much greater need at the moment are simpler supplies like N95 masks, which must be why Tesla/SpaceX is providing 250,000 of them.

I will believe it when I see it.

Are you willing to make a bet? What is your definition of swift? How quickly should the private sector produce ventilators? Can you provide a number?

Read the articles you linked to and find out.

Nope, tell me why i cannot migrate to Cuba.

I guess you do not know as much about Cuba as you thought.

That is correct, but you have been claiming that Cuba does it better because they have more docs per capita. Please explain!

Cuba does it better because they have more docs per capita. That is it.

The ultimate state of emergency is to have the government nationalize industry. That would be a disaster. Do you agree?

No. The current reaction to the virus crisis by the free market shows why government contolr of the economy is actually saving lives.

[Julian658]

There is a right and wrong.

While it is emergency, it is wrong to argue that everyone is learning as they go, or that everybody was equally unable to foresee it.

POD: Do not be an absolutist and try to be a bit more nuanced. That will help you expose your ideas a bit better. This concept of I am right you are wrong is dangerous.

I will believe it when I see it.

Wow, it must have been painful for you type that. Why are you so impermeable to a new perspective? Move to the center of the political spectrum and try to have an open mind POD.

I guess you do not know as much about Cuba as you thought.

POD: It was a simple question: Can I migrate to Cuba?

Cuba does it better because they have more docs per capita. That is it.

DO they have the equipment? The technology?

No. The current reaction to the virus crisis by the free market shows why government contolr of the economy is actually saving lives.

Government control of the economy saves lives?? How does it do that? Please explain. Have you seen how the average Cuban lives? Who has a better lifestyle? A Cuban or a Canadian? Would you be willing to migrate to Cuba? Would you be accepted as a migrant?

[Pants-of-dog]

Government control of the economy saves lives?? How does it do that?

Public healthcare.

Countries with public health care have a lower rate of mortality amenable to health care.

This virus crisis is yet another example of that.

The rest of your post was irrelevant.

[Julian658]

Public healthcare.

Countries with public health care have a lower rate of mortality amenable to health care.

This virus crisis is yet another example of that.

The rest of your post was irrelevant.

You make a good point POD. For example a totalitarian system like Cuba has some benefits. Nations with freedom have complications that are a byproduct of liberty. For example too much drug use, crime, obesite among the poor, etc. This causes a significant reduction in life expectancy. I have to give credit where credit is due. Fidel and his descendants do not put up with that. They also have better discipline in schools because they are a dictatorship. Not everything is bad in Cuba POD.

[Pants-of-dog]

@Julian658

Most of that seems like unsupported tripe, and Cuba is not the topic.

Can you say anything about how the US was or was not prepared? That is the topic.

[Saeko]

Umm... WHAT THE FUCK JUST HAPPENED?

* Trump initially dismisses coronavirus threat
* Then he starts taking it seriously and does a bunch of useful shit
* Stock begin to plummet
* Republicans propose a stimulus bill
* Trump proposes bailouts for workers
* Democrats hop on board
* Original Republican bill contains all kinds of absurd no-strings-attatched handouts for corporations
* Democrats try to get this shit removed
* However, they then add all kinds of ludicrous bullshit of their own
* Bill fails in the Senate
* Trump dismisses coronavirus as a nothingburger again because the social distancing measures will tank his economy and hurt his chances of re-election.
* "Excessive accumulation" is now illegal, but only if you're poor

The US government is well and truly inept, and we're all fucked.

[Pants-of-dog]

https://nypost.com/2020/03/19/we-should ... -hamptons/

It’s all-out class warfare in the Hamptons.

The year-round residents, the locals who serve and clean and landscape for the super-rich in the summertime — and put up with all manner of entitlement and terrible behavior in exchange for good money — are silent no more.

“There’s not a vegetable to be found in this town right now,” says one resident of Springs, a working-class pocket of East Hampton. “It’s these elitist people who think they don’t have to follow the rules.”

It’s not just the drastic food shortage out here. Every aspect of life, most crucially medical care, is under strain from the sudden influx of rich Manhattanites panic-fleeing, bringing along their disdain and disregard for the little people — and in some cases, knowingly bringing coronavirus.

The Springs resident says her friend, a nurse out here, reported that a wealthy Manhattan woman who tested positive called tiny Southampton Hospital to say she was on her way and needed treatment.

The woman was told to stay in Manhattan.

Instead, she allegedly got on public transportation, telling no one of her condition. Then she showed up at Southampton Hospital, demanding admittance.

“Someone else took a private jet to East Hampton and did not tell anybody ’til he landed,” the resident says. “That’s the most horrendous aspect. The virus is already here, and we don’t have any medical resources.”

“We’re at the end of Long Island, the tip, and waves of people are bringing this s–t,” says lifelong Montauker James Katsipis. “We should blow up the bridges. Don’t let them in.”

It began one week ago. First came the social media posts, the rich showing off their fleets of SUVs — three to a family sometimes — with fresh and canned food bought in the city, announcing they were headed to their second homes out east, where they immediately ravaged every supermarket and stripped the shelves bare.

Then they hit P.C. Richard & Son in Southampton to rush-order extra freezers to hoard all that food — 700 orders last weekend alone. When one customer was asked what size freezer she wanted, she said, “I don’t care. It just needs to be big enough that I can hide in it.”

That makes no sense, but nothing out here has made sense recently.

Here’s something that never gets mentioned or seen in coverage of the Hamptons, whether it’s the news or gossip columns or “Sex and the City” reruns: There are actually poor people who live here. There are three trailer parks (one, of course, is already going luxury). There are food pantries for the needy, and that includes schoolkids.

Normally, the haves and the have-nots converge only in summer, and everyone plays their parts. No more.

“A big majority [of the rich] are truly disrespectful, and in my opinion don’t deserve to enjoy Montauk,” says local fisherman Chris Albronda, 33. He wasn’t shocked by the infected woman who deliberately came out here, even after she was told not to.

“That small act reflects a lot of what we deal with in the summer,” he says. “Selfish. Disrespectful. Absolutely horrifying.”

“I’ve seen breathtaking acts of selfishness,” says lifelong East Hamptonite Jason LaGarenne, 42. “I saw one guy walk out [of a grocery store] with a cart full of carrots. Just carrots. Another cart was full of bottles of water and orange anti-microbial dish soap. If you’re a ridiculous person in general, I guess your ridiculousness is amplified by something like this.”

Doubly so if you’re greedy and self-centered. It amazes locals how little the wealthy have truly taken notice of their existence, that it hasn’t occurred to them that they, with limitless resources, will never go hungry, not even in a pandemic.

“We went into the Amagansett IGA yesterday,” says local realtor Romaine Gordon. “There must have been two frozen pizzas left. I’ve never seen anything like this.”

The offseason, October through June, is sparsely populated and can be very isolating. During that time, local grocers only stock food and supplies for a severely reduced population. There is no FreshDirect, no Whole Foods, no door-to-door food delivery.

Most year-rounders don’t have the ability to drop, as The Post reported, $8,000 in one shot at gourmet grocery Citarella, or import hundreds of pounds of meat as another overlord just did, then stash their hoard in the extra brand-new freezers they just bought.

This is the kind of place where a wealthy homeowner rents out his house in the summer and tells his cleaning staff, at the end of the season, to throw out all the perfectly good, sealed, unopened food and beverages in all three of his refrigerators — true story.

“It’s horrible,” says Gordon. “Think of all the older people who have to wait for their Social Security checks or food stamps. Then they get the courage to go, and there’s nothing to buy. Every person out here doesn’t have the luxury of laying down their debit card whenever they choose. I saw old people at King Kullen shell-shocked with their empty baskets. These poor people — they’re literally risking their lives to go to the grocery store, and you go home with what? It’s really upsetting.”

And after the rich panic-fleers bought all the available food, they did not hunker down at home. Instead, they went out partying.

“The biggest problem — what really gets me going — is that they think because they’re all the way out [here], they’re safe,” says Katsipis. “But some of those people are sick, and they’re going out to bars and acting like they’re on vacation. What do these city people think — we have some imaginary, magical bubble?”

As of last weekend, SoulCycle and Flywheel were packed, as were bars, restaurants, clothing stores and coffee shops. As of Monday, “there was a line out the door at [East Hampton restaurant] Mary’s and Starbucks,” says the Springs resident. “If you’re going to make such a hoopla over leaving the city and hoarding your food, why not stay in your million-dollar mansion on the waterfront? Don’t go to Starbucks! I’m sure you have a coffeemaker.”

Last weekend, Albronda says, “there were a couple of restaurants so overcrowded that the police had to come and thin them out. No one’s taking this as seriously as they should be. They’re just being selfish. If this disease spreads out here, that will be why.”

And a fair amount of these panic-fleers don’t own homes out here. “We started early,” says East Hampton realtor Dawn Neway, who works with her sister Diana. “We have a lot of high-end clients, and we noticed when the private schools were closing, before the panic, they weren’t going to travel. They were canceling trips to Aspen for spring break. We had one client call, budget range from $400,000 to $1 million, year-round, starting now. I’ve never seen anything like this.”

Gordon has had a similar experience. Her call volume really picked up last weekend. “It was a frenzy, non-stop, Friday-Saturday-Sunday, early morning to late night,” she says. Gordon says every call went like this:

“Do you have anything in a few hours?”

“Tonight?”

“Tomorrow?”

“We don’t care where it’s at. Any price point.”

And because it’s still offseason, “it’s not like these homes are ready to rock and roll,” Gordon says. “But I know people who had a $300,000 bidding war [for their home], now through summer.”

Katsipis has friends who caretake these homes in the winter months, and requests from sudden renters astounded them.

“The weirdest,” Katsipis says, “is they all want their pools heated. It was 28 degrees the other night, and they want them heated to 88.”

Translation: Even though the bars and restaurants have shut down, these people are here to party.

Even if, when they do get sick, there will be nowhere to go.

“That’s my big fear,” Albronda says. “Everybody was out in big groups. It was like summertime came early. We’re going to see an incredible influx of disease spreading, and our hospital isn’t as prepared to handle it as a large-scale one.”

Southampton Hospital, which serves East Hampton, Bridgehampton, Sag Harbor, Noyack, Amagansett, Hampton Bays, Montauk, and of course Southampton, has 125 beds. Only eight are ICU. While a spokeswoman told The Post the hospital is preparing for more, locals here aren’t encouraged.

“How many [ventilators] do you think they have in there?” asks Katsipis. “Ten? Twenty? The city has a lot more hospitals and, not for nothing, better care. Southampton is just not equipped for a pandemic.”

“That hospital is extremely small,” says the Springs resident, who was treated there extensively last year and says there are only four quarantine rooms. “You already get treated in the ER hallway in the summer. We don’t have any medical resources here.”

Compounding the problem is the lack of ambulances. Each firehouse has only two or three, and firefighters and paramedics are not on site — when a call comes in, they’re alerted at home, and they must make the drive to the firehouse and then to the emergency. And all East End firefighters are volunteers.

“It’s a state of emergency now,” says a spokeswoman for an East End fire department.

Still, every local who spoke to The Post said their community has one thing going for it that the rich don’t have: They really look out for each other.

“I see the bartenders and the waitresses — the people out of work — volunteering to feed the elderly,” says LaGarenne. “We don’t really see that from the types of people hoarding supplies. But I guess that’s to be expected.”

[Julian658]

@Julian658

Most of that seems like unsupported tripe, and Cuba is not the topic.

Can you say anything about how the US was or was not prepared? That is the topic.

OK, you want to stay away from Cuba even though you were proudly saying the Cubans had a better healthcare system than the USA.

[Godstud]

@blackjack21 Ranting and carrying on about conspiracy theories(cultural marxism? ), attacking my characrter, and taking the thread off topic isn't worth a jot. When did you abandon your intellect?

Thailand has a democracy(Constitutional Monarchy like UK, Canada, Australia, etc.), as imperfect as that of the USA. They have most of the same rights that Americans, Canadians, and others enjoy, so I can only assume you are speaking from a position of extreme ignorance on the topic... much like @Rich often does.

I cannot vote in Thailand, but my wife did in the last election. I think one of the flaws was that there was simply too many candidates to vote for. That gave the current PM his power, and much like the electoral college, they did a similar thing in Thailand, by making it easier for the government in power to stay.

Thailand is not the country it was a "few decades ago". That said, I think any abuse of children, whether its Buddhist, Catholic, or otherwise, should be stopped/punished, with extreme prejudice.

[Rich]

@blackjack21 Ranting and carrying on about conspiracy theories(cultural marxism? ), attacking my characrter, and taking the thread off topic isn't worth a jot. When did you abandon your intellect?

Thailand has a democracy(Constitutional Monarchy like UK, Canada, Australia, etc.), as imperfect as that of the USA. They have most of the same rights that Americans, Canadians, and others enjoy, so I can only assume you are speaking from a position of extreme ignorance on the topic.

Oh my mistake I thought the Senate was elected in free and fair elections in the united States, but I guess it must be appointed by the head of government like in Thailand. Yeah pardon my ignorance, I thought you were allowed criticise the head of State in the United States, I thought you were even able to criticise or mock the Head of State's pets in the United States, but no I'm sure you're right The US is no different to Thailand.

[blackjack21]

Although strangely @Godstud seems to so desperately care for every jot and tittle of the democratic rights and the political and civil liberties of United States citizens, but shows absolutely no concern for the democratic rights of the Thai people.

Yes. I find his passionate obsession with the United States quizzical.

@blackjack21 Ranting and carrying on about conspiracy theories(cultural marxism? ), attacking my characrter, and taking the thread off topic isn't worth a jot. When did you abandon your intellect?

We're talking about the China Coronavirus pandemic. You are simply making it another reason to attack the United States, which seems to be a bit of a fetish for you.

Americans mocking Italians for what they did or didn't do are about to get a face-full. I hope they start dealing with it better than Italy did.

We already have. Big liberal cities will get hurt worse, because they won't practice social distancing as much. At any rate, Trump bought time by enacting travel bans, which is awesome.

[Finfinder]

Umm... WHAT THE FUCK JUST HAPPENED?

* Trump initially dismisses coronavirus threat
* Then he starts taking it seriously and does a bunch of useful shit
* Stock begin to plummet
* Republicans propose a stimulus bill
* Trump proposes bailouts for workers
* Democrats hop on board
* Original Republican bill contains all kinds of absurd no-strings-attatched handouts for corporations
* Democrats try to get this shit removed
* However, they then add all kinds of ludicrous bullshit of their own
* Bill fails in the Senate
* Trump dismisses coronavirus as a nothingburger again because the social distancing measures will tank his economy and hurt his chances of re-election.
* "Excessive accumulation" is now illegal, but only if you're poor

The US government is well and truly inept, and we're all fucked.

Are we supposed to not notice you left out on purpose how the Democrats are now holding up the stimulus bill with a ton of bull shit they are attaching to it. Like Green New Deal concepts and and identity politics with the term "diversity" is all over the 1400 page bill. What does airplane emissions have to do with a stimulus and furthermore what does partisanship do for it either. If you are going to play the blame game at least try to be fare about.

[Saeko]

Are we supposed to not notice you left out on purpose how the Democrats are now holding up the stimulus bill with a ton of bull shit they are attaching to it. Like Green New Deal concepts and and identity politics with the term "diversity" is all over the 1400 page bill. What does airplane emissions have to do with a stimulus and furthermore what does partisanship do for it either. If you are going to play the blame game at least try to be fare about.

I did mention that towards the bottom. If you're going to play the blame game, then at least read my whole post.

[Finfinder]

I did mention that towards the bottom. If you're going to play the blame game, then at least read my whole post.

"some ludicrous BS " Are going with that? LOL when you were pretty specific about the Republicans intentions. I felt like maybe people should understand what ludicrous looks like when it holds up a bill for days. Did you read my post? I said at least be fare about it. Just calling it as I see it.

[Saeko]

"some ludicrous BS " Are going with that? LOL when you were pretty specific about the Republicans intentions.

Wow, that's quite the microscope you've got there Mr. Snowflake. Maybe I need to tell you where to shove it?

[Finfinder]

Wow, that's quite the microscope you've got there Mr. Snowflake. Maybe I need to tell you where to shove it?

To be fare if the truth has you triggered go for it. In your haste and outburst of having your feelings hurt by some anonymous screen name you failed to realize I didn't disagree with you but just mentioned to be fare.