[Godstud]

It seems you don't understand that this exists, @Julian658

This is the socialism that most people are talking about when they are for socialism.

Democratic Socialism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_socialism

Here's the difference between a 'socialist' and a 'democratic socialist'
Democratic socialists are committed to democracy
Democratic socialists also believe strongly in democracy and democratic principles. They are by no means proponents of authoritarian government systems many Americans associate socialism with.

As the DSA's website states: "At the root of our socialism is a profound commitment to democracy, as means and end. As we are unlikely to see an immediate end to capitalism tomorrow, DSA fights for reforms today that will weaken the power of corporations and increase the power of working people."

To put it another way, they don't feel socialism should be forced on people, but they are fundamentally anti-capitalist and believe the government should urge privately owned businesses toward granting workers as much control as possible.
https://www.businessinsider.com/differe ... ist-2018-6

[Julian658]

4) When people talk about socialism these days, they usually mean the Nordic countries. When the extreme Right isn't indulging in their fantasies, one of their favorite things to do is to remind us that those countries have gotten less socialist in recent years.

Point of clarification: The Swedes made their social security system private because as a public entity it was failing. They also contracted some train and schools to the private sector as they do a better job. IN this regards they are more right wing than the US.

And do not forget they are handling the Corona virus in a right wing manner to preserve the economy.

[Julian658]

It seems you don't understand that this exists, @Julian658

This is the socialism that most people are talking about when they are for socialism.

Democratic Socialism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_socialism

Here's the difference between a 'socialist' and a 'democratic socialist'
Democratic socialists are committed to democracy
Democratic socialists also believe strongly in democracy and democratic principles. They are by no means proponents of authoritarian government systems many Americans associate socialism with.

As the DSA's website states: "At the root of our socialism is a profound commitment to democracy, as means and end. As we are unlikely to see an immediate end to capitalism tomorrow, DSA fights for reforms today that will weaken the power of corporations and increase the power of working people."

To put it another way, they don't feel socialism should be forced on people, but they are fundamentally anti-capitalist and believe the government should urge privately owned businesses toward granting workers as much control as possible.
https://www.businessinsider.com/differe ... ist-2018-6

Your left wing credentials are duly noted.
Yes, there are a lot of commie wannabes in Europe, but they know quite well they cannot force that horrendous doctrine on their citizens. They should talk to people that actually lived in the USSR, Cuba, or North Korea.

[Godstud]

Democratic Socialism isn't "Left-wing". A right-wing reactionary would see it as such, though.

It's not Communism by a long-shot, either. That you can equate Democratic Socialism to Communism only shows your absolute ignorance of what it actually is.

Denmarck, Norway, Finland... Democratic Socialist countries. Also among the best places in the world to live.

Democratic Socialism works with a Capitalist economy. You didn't read a fucking thing of the link, and that's obvious by your stupid statements.


@Julian658 Finland is the gold standard of education in the world, not Sweden.

Public universities in Finland are divided into regular universities and universities of applied sciences. They are all tuition-free for students coming from EU/EEA countries and Switzerland. Non-EU/EEA students enrolling in English-taught degrees are required to pay tuition fees.

[Pants-of-dog]

@Julian658

You are off topic.

You should go back to explaining why it is all right for Trump to sexually assault women but not Biden.

[Julian658]

Democratic Socialism isn't "Left-wing". A right-wing reactionary would see it as such, though.

It's not Communism by a long-shot, either. That you can equate Democratic Socialism to Communism only shows your absolute ignorance of what it actually is.

Denmarck, Norway, Finland... Democratic Socialist countries. Also among the best places in the world to live.

Democratic Socialism works with a Capitalist economy. You didn't read a fucking thing of the link, and that's obvious by your stupid statements.


@Julian658 Finland is the gold standard of education in the world, not Sweden.

Public universities in Finland are divided into regular universities and universities of applied sciences. They are all tuition-free for students coming from EU/EEA countries and Switzerland. Non-EU/EEA students enrolling in English-taught degrees are required to pay tuition fees.

Your extreme left wing ideology is duly noted.

In Europe University education is dirt cheap or free. Everybody knows that. However, the students have to academically qualify for admission. In AMERICA the left wishes for ALL comers to go to university for free; that is a big difference. IN places like Germany those that are college bound are selected early due to academic potential. If we did that in America the left would cry racism 24/7.

[Julian658]

@Julian658

You are off topic.

You should go back to explaining why it is all right for Trump to sexually assault women but not Biden.

POD, sometimes you are correct when you post and I always give you credit. Well done!

[Godstud]

Your extreme left wing ideology is duly noted.

Your extreme ignorance and vapid arguments are duly noted.

In Europe University education is dirt cheap or free. Everybody knows that. However, the students have to academically qualify for admission. In AMERICA the left wishes for ALL comers to go to university for free; that is a big difference. IN places like Germany those that are college bound are selected early due to academic potential. If we did that in America the left would cry racism 24/7.

No. That's just a lie you tell yourself so you can live with the shit you have.

[Drlee]

IN America the bottom 50% earners virtually pay no taxes.

This is absolutely and categorically wrong. Where do you come up with this shit?

[Julian658]

This is absolutely and categorically wrong. Where do you come up with this shit?

I will not say anything to avoid offending you.

[Rugoz]

I will not say anything to avoid offending you.

So the 25% to 10% pay twice as much as a share of their income than the top 10% to 5%. That's kind of fucked up .

Definitely regressive.

[Julian658]

So the 25% to 10% pay twice as much as a share of their income than the top 10% to 5%. That's kind of fucked up .

Definitely regressive.

Not as bad as Scandinavia where ALL comers pay the exceeding high tax rate.

[late]

Not as bad as Scandinavia where ALL comers pay the exceeding high tax rate.

They pay a little more, but get a lot more.

Partly because they have less income inequality, which means their tax systems are less regressive...

[Julian658]

They pay a little more, but get a lot more.

Partly because they have less income inequality, which means their tax systems are less regressive...

I hear you, but I am a libertarian type. The only thing I want from government is an Army for defense, the police, and public works.

Having said that: I agree in that paying higher taxes and receiving free health insurance and no university tuition is probably a great idea for a large number of people. I actually favor Medicare for all. I don't understand why we have to pay a middle man , the health insurance corporations to obtain health care.

I am 100% in favor of free public universities as long as they have high admission standards.

[late]

I hear you, but I am a libertarian type. The only thing I want from government is an Army for defense, the police, and public works.

That died shortly after the Civil War.

Not coming back, either.

There must be a country for you somewhere, Somalia?

[Julian658]

That died shortly after the Civil War.

Not coming back, either.

There must be a country for you somewhere, Somalia?

The county where I live picks up the trash in exchange of the taxes I pay.
Somalian women have the greatest curves in the world. Enuff said!

[late]

The county where I live picks up the trash in exchange of the taxes I pay.


Somalian women have the greatest curves in the world. Enuff said!

You really can't live in an empire and be libertarian. It's a pose... You're all for small government in every way but the way that counts.

So Somalia it is.

[Drlee]

I will not say anything to avoid offending you.

You are the one making a fool of yourself. You posted a fucking graphic proving yourself wrong. And let me remind you of this. You said:

IN America the bottom 50% earners virtually pay no taxes.

So man up and admit you are wrong. Your graphic proves it. And what else it shows is that they are woefully underpaid.

Now pay attention son. You said "no taxes". The wealthy TV star pays 12.5% in payroll taxes up to $130K of their income. The poor teacher at $40K per year pays the same percentage on all of their pay. The bottom 50% pay sales taxes equaling far more than the top 10% pay. They pay school taxes, auto license taxes, taxes on their cell phones and utilities. In other words you have posted a meaningless number. It is one that so-called conservatives like yourself post all of the time and it is unmitigated bullshit.

So are you man enough to admit you are wrong?

What is sad is that you seem to want to be a thinking person. Get out of the shallow end of the pool and look deeper.

[Julian658]

Your extreme ignorance and vapid arguments are duly noted.

No. That's just a lie you tell yourself so you can live with the shit you have.

God, from your posts I can tell you are an intelligent bright gifted person, no doubt. However, the above are not arguments. I am going assume you are having an off day.

[Julian658]

You are the one making a fool of yourself. You posted a fucking graphic proving yourself wrong. And let me remind you of this. You said:

Using the term fool or the F word does not advance your point of view.

So man up and admit you are wrong. Your graphic proves it. And what else it shows is that they are woefully underpaid.

The graph is correct. The top 50% earners pay about 97% of the federal tax bill. We are talking about federal taxes.

Now pay attention son. You said "no taxes". The wealthy TV star pays 12.5% in payroll taxes up to $130K of their income. The poor teacher at $40K per year pays the same percentage on all of their pay. The bottom 50% pay sales taxes equaling far more than the top 10% pay. They pay school taxes, auto license taxes, taxes on their cell phones and utilities. In other words you have posted a meaningless number. It is one that so-called conservatives like yourself post all of the time and it is unmitigated bullshit.

YOU are 100% correct here. But, you are talking about FICA and Medicare TAX. THIS IS A DISGRACE! I GIVE YOU CREDIT FOR POSTING THIS.

So are you man enough to admit you are wrong?

Oops, I hate to disappoint you, but I actually posted this info to POD who is a Canadian. Here is what I posted to POD four days ago about the unfairness of social security taxes. I described to him the very same problem you mention above.

Read post #15087248 in this thread:
Re: Cuba has proven that capitalism and technology are failures
viewtopic.php?f=45&t=172405&start=1340#p15087248


Back to the drawing board!!