[Rancid]

@Wulfschilde

Are you white?

[Julian658]

Really? You think this is too far? This is dishonest?
Tell me, under which other president of modern times have we had virtually country-wide civil unrest, protests and riots?
Under obama we had what Baltimore and Ferguson, under bush we had a few smaller ones in the 1990's we had LA, washington, las vegas...
Nothing in modern history comes close to what is happening under Trump, certainly not under the last couple decades.

The protests are related to multiple factors and Trump is one of them. We have massive racial PTSD thanks to the media that pushes racism 24/7, black leaders that push racism 24/7, and the Democratic Party that preaches victimhood at all times.

IN the 1960s the young kids held massive protests against the Viet Nam war, but otherwise they were into rock music, hallucinogenics, and making love. The protest were violent!

The young kids of this era do not have a Viet Nam, they are not interested in having sex, and have been indoctrinated into Marxism by their college professors. They are young rebellious and looking for a cause. They are nothing but spoiled brats.

The BLM folks have a valid argument regarding police brutality, however, they are infiltrated by commies. You grew up in Cuba, so you know the type. These are people that see marxism as romantic and they are looking to bring down Western Civilization. Please, don't tell them that Marxism is a product of the West.

If you watch the media and listen to black leaders you would think the cops selectively only kill black people. That the cops also kill plenty of white people is ignored. Imagine what it would be if ALL you heard from birth to tomb is that the racist system is out to get you and that any negative outcome in your life is due to systemic and institutional racism. One would think this would cause low self esteem, anger, lack of hope, paranoia, depression, anxiety, and nihilism.

There is also a lot of frustration and many remain poor and uneducated and hence have a need to blame the system or Christopher Columbus. What we have is massive frustration as people compare themselves to those that have success in life. We live in an era of massive entitlement.

[Rancid]

black leaders that push racism 24/7

There are actually many black thinkers and professors that are very vocally against what's going on right now. Especially the hijacking of their cause by young white people.

[Wulfschilde]

I am not chocolate.

[Drlee]

I am amazed by @Julian658 post. It is just absolutely wrong. What it is, is filled with Fox News talking points. If I was doing SEO I would think that this was written to attract Google.

Let's see what part of this is actually true:

The protests are related to multiple factors and Trump is one of them.

True. Trump is a racist and he is in charge. He is, naturally, taking heat and motivating the opposition.

We have massive racial PTSD thanks to the media that pushes racism 24/7, black leaders that push racism 24/7, and the Democratic Party that preaches victimhood at all times.

None of this is true. Clearly, among other things, you do not know what PTSD is, how it is acquired and what it does.

IN the 1960s the young kids held massive protests against the Viet Nam war, but otherwise they were into rock music, hallucinogenics, and making love. The protest were violent!

Few of the protests were violent. Your characterization of "young kids" is wrong. Just wrong. The overwhelming majority of young people were actually very conservative. There was a movement of many of us, conservative and progressive who opposed the war. After all we had a draft and could be forced to fight for nothing in an insignificant place. You should be aware that we young people (and I am one of the one of which you seem to be speaking) elected Nixon by a big number.

The young kids of this era do not have a Viet Nam,

Vietnam was not the problem. You would not know that. The problem was the draft.

they are not interested in having sex,

I don't know what to say about this. The ones I know certainly are..

and have been indoctrinated into Marxism by their college professors.

I am one of their professors and I am a conservative republican. I see little evidence of what you describe on campus.

They are young rebellious and looking for a cause.

Not hardly. Certainly not anymore than young people have been for all history. Discovery and building one's own worldview is what youth is all about.

They are nothing but spoiled brats.

Nonsense. My generation was the spoiled one. Young people today do not face the same future that I did...one of white wealth and privilege. They can't rely on "the company" to take care of them cradle to grave. Many, if not most, leave school deeply in debt and into an uncertain job market to say the least. Their prospects for having "it" as good as their parents is almost zero.

The BLM folks have a valid argument regarding police brutality, however, they are infiltrated by commies.

More bullshit. What would "commies" care about a police brutality movement? That is not what communism is all about.

These are people that see marxism as romantic and they are looking to bring down Western Civilization.

More nonsense. What young people want is a good job with good benefits, a good life of prosperity and a genteel retirement.

Please, don't tell them that Marxism is a product of the West.

Blather much?

If you watch the media and listen to black leaders you would think the cops selectively only kill black people.

More bullshit.

That the cops also kill plenty of white people is ignored.

Nonsense. Black lives matter is about black lives and institutional racism. Don't feel all sorry that you were not invited to the table. Just accept that whites will benefit from more professional and better trained police.

Imagine what it would be if ALL you heard from birth to tomb is that the racist system is out to get you and that any negative outcome in your life is due to systemic and institutional racism. One would think this would cause low self esteem, anger, lack of hope, paranoia, depression, anxiety, and nihilism.

There is also a lot of frustration and many remain poor and uneducated and hence have a need to blame the system or Christopher Columbus. What we have is massive frustration as people compare themselves to those that have success in life. We live in an era of massive entitlement.

You are the one who is suffering from pathology Julian. You are internalizing all of these talking points. You need to deal with your racism then you will begin to heal.

[Rancid]

Trying to be reasonable, rational, and logical is the new radical ideology.

Sad, but true.

[XogGyux]

The protests are related to multiple factors and Trump is one of them. We have massive racial PTSD thanks to the media that pushes racism 24/7, black leaders that push racism 24/7, and the Democratic Party that preaches victimhood at all times.

I am glad you put it in such words, because now I can continue the analogy.

Imagine that you have a Vietnam veteran with PTSD. Now imagine that we have everyone around them saying PTSD is not real, that they should just stop playing the victim card. Imagine that we shun away doctors that "buys" into the PTSD theory and imagine that we don't do anything to treat and/or mitigate PTSD. We don't have to imagine much actually as we have seen some of this due to embarrassment, fear of retribution/loss of promotions, etc and/or flat out denial of its existence (in the past) and causes.
You are the one making the analogy, not a bad one at that I'll give you that. But you cannot expect to have any sort of healing if you are denying the existence of the trauma, the racism, the inequalities that ensued and/or complete avoidance of anything that could help current victims to pull ahead. You would deny these are victims, you would ask them to stop playing the "victim card".
You know what... their ancestors were forced to work and killed with little in return, their fathers, mothers, grandfathers, grandmothers (not long ago) were spat on the face, told they were less than human, asked to use different bathrooms, denied housing in certain places (trump's father btw), hung, killed, rejected and now you are throwing a fit because they are being a bit dramatic.
Told you before, and I'll tell you again. Fuck off.

The protests are related to multiple factors and Trump is one of them.

Congratulations you are seeing a bit of reality.
Trump is one of those factors.
Offcourse we also have racism
we have Police brutality (both against blacks but also against whites and other ethnicities, brutality doesn't imply race).
General civil unrest due to pandemic and/or economic uncertainty
the 24/7 news hours
Social media
Others?
The point was and is... Trump is the leader, he is responsible for what happens to our nation and how we react as a nation. He was a failure on this just as he has been a failure on nearly everything he has ever touched.

The BLM folks have a valid argument regarding police brutality, however, they are infiltrated by commies. You grew up in Cuba, so you know the type. These are people that see marxism as romantic and they are looking to bring down Western Civilization. Please, don't tell them that Marxism is a product of the West.

Oh please. You make it seem like a 1980's spy novel. Those that call themselves in the US "Marxist" or "Communists" or any of that crap are a bunch of idiotic emo teenagers that think they know the world. They are not much of a danger, more nuance than anything else. Having this sort of overreaction that the "right", including yourself is much more damage to yourself and your ideology than anything else. I can't believe I am about to utter these words, but do you belive we would have been in the same sort of peril if we had had a Ted Cruz president? As much as I despise that slimy disgusting spineless bitch, I don't think so.

We live in an era of massive entitlement.

Nonsense. Do you know anything about history? Do you know what a monarchy is? You don't think that's entitlement? Or what about the slave trade era? That some people thought they were entitled to basically kidnap and torture other human beings and submit them to do their bidding? Or how about conquest... when people would just show up on a beach and declare it the property of themselves (or whoever happened to be sponsoring the trip).

Which entitlement would you cut? SS? Medicare/caid? Defense? Because in case you don't know, between those 3 things that's over 2/3rd of the US budget. So really, you could cut 100% of everything else, not a penny for education, not a penny for energy not a penny for housing, not a penny for food and your tax bill would be lucky to receive a 10-20% cut. Offcourse you would be living in a barren country but... hey... at least those negros would not be taking advantage of food stamps.

I think you are a victim yourself, don't go crying, playing the victim card just yet, but I think you are. I think you are a victim of FOX brainwashing machine. They have created the illusion that poor people are after your money and they are trying to use the government to squeeze it out of you. I know the type, I have some of those in my family actually. They hear the news of that tall 6'2" muscular black male that is on "disability" yet he can walk, talk has 2 muscular and strong hands and is "stealing your money" for food stamps.
I am not going to deny that fraud exists, being in healthcare I am in direct contact with "disabled" people all the time, I have seen a few. But I can tell you this much, there are not nearly as many as you would think, and in the grand scheme of things all of these "fraudsters" combined would not even come to a fraction of a fraction of a penny of your taxes. As a country, we don't give enough disability or food stamp as a portion of our GDP for disability fraud to account for a significant percentage... it is basically a rounding error. I do feel pity for this individual that commits this kind of fraud, but I would not be going after people that are ACTUALLY disabled and make it harder for them because of a handful of fraudsters.

Do you know how much it costs on a yearly basis someone that is on dialysis? 70K! per year To that add, that the people that get to dialysis, usually they have far more problems than just dialysis. Heart disease, diabetes, HTN, strokes, etc. To that add surgical procedures (insertion of catheters and/or creation of fistulas), to that add hospitalizations due to severe anemia, due to blood infections, due to heart attacks (more common in this population), due to missed dialysis sessions, due to electrolyte abnormalities, and many many other reasons. By the time we run the numbers it is likely we are in the several hundred thousand dollars if not million dollars per year. Now... how many blood pressure medication and/or diabetic medication (by far the 2 leading causes of renal disease) do you reckon we could afford with that much money, with hundreds if not millions of dollars per year? To that add the cost of having a person disabled, because attending 3x/week for several hours to a hemodialysis clinic almost certainly guarantees you will get "disability" status regardless of anything else.

We could treat thousands of people for those common ailments with the money we save by avoiding 1 person to go into ESRD. It would more than pay for itself, it might actually be profitable to give proper care. Yet every time this comes up on FOX "it is too expensive" "we cannot afford it" "It is socialism".

[Julian658]

I am glad you put it in such words, because now I can continue the analogy.

Imagine that you have a Vietnam veteran with PTSD. Now imagine that we have everyone around them saying PTSD is not real, that they should just stop playing the victim card. Imagine that we shun away doctors that "buys" into the PTSD theory and imagine that we don't do anything to treat and/or mitigate PTSD. We don't have to imagine much actually as we have seen some of this due to embarrassment, fear of retribution/loss of promotions, etc and/or flat out denial of its existence (in the past) and causes.
You are the one making the analogy, not a bad one at that I'll give you that. But you cannot expect to have any sort of healing if you are denying the existence of the trauma, the racism, the inequalities that ensued and/or complete avoidance of anything that could help current victims to pull ahead. You would deny these are victims, you would ask them to stop playing the "victim card".
You know what... their ancestors were forced to work and killed with little in return, their fathers, mothers, grandfathers, grandmothers (not long ago) were spat on the face, told they were less than human, asked to use different bathrooms, denied housing in certain places (trump's father btw), hung, killed, rejected and now you are throwing a fit because they are being a bit dramatic.
Told you before, and I'll tell you again.

That is all true, but the perception of racism has gone up as racism has gone down. The people that lived during slavery and Jim Crow had a better outlook than the young people of this era. There are actual voice recordings of slaves that were alive when magnetic tape recording technology became available. I think the PTSD is crucial and is never addressed. The lack of PTSD in African immigrants may be the reason why they succeed ahead of black Americans in the USA. The French know this and decided to do away with race ID politics or the concept of classifying humans according to skin color. The French still have racism, but the black French people do not have the stress of black Americans.

Congratulations you are seeing a bit of reality.
Trump is one of those factors.
Offcourse we also have racism
we have Police brutality (both against blacks but also against whites and other ethnicities, brutality doesn't imply race).
General civil unrest due to pandemic and/or economic uncertainty
the 24/7 news hours
Social media
Others?
The point was and is... Trump is the leader, he is responsible for what happens to our nation and how we react as a nation. He was a failure on this just as he has been a failure on nearly everything he has ever touched.

That is a good point. Perhaps we would have less violence if Trump used more conciliatory words. Perhaps I fail to see this point because as a Latin American in the USA I don't care if Trump says nice things or nasty things about Latin people. His words cannot hurt me as long as the economy is OK. When Trump said Mexicans crossing the border were rapists I lost no sleep. He was just pandering to his base to win the election.

Oh please. You make it seem like a 1980's spy novel. Those that call themselves in the US "Marxist" or "Communists" or any of that crap are a bunch of idiotic emo teenagers that think they know the world. They are not much of a danger, more nuance than anything else. Having this sort of overreaction that the "right", including yourself is much more damage to yourself and your ideology than anything else. I can't believe I am about to utter these words, but do you belive we would have been in the same sort of peril if we had had a Ted Cruz president? As much as I despise that slimy disgusting spineless bitch, I don't think so.

Yes, and no. Perhaps the violence is small in relative terms, but videos do not lie. I would much rather live in a more civilized society

Nonsense. Do you know anything about history? Do you know what a monarchy is? You don't think that's entitlement? Or what about the slave trade era? That some people thought they were entitled to basically kidnap and torture other human beings and submit them to do their bidding? Or how about conquest... when people would just show up on a beach and declare it the property of themselves (or whoever happened to be sponsoring the trip).

Obviously YOU are the one that does not know world history. The natural state of man was violent till just the other day. And any group that could conquer another group did so until very recently. Conquering others is not an European thing! Conquering others is a Human thing.

[Rich]

Vietnam was not the problem. You would not know that. The problem was the draft.

You're right to identify the draft as a big part of the problem, but it wasn't the whole problem. There was no draft on the road to Basra, but the pressure was on the Army high command to bring that Turkey Shoot to an end in hours. We were able to send Bomber Command out night after night in our attempt to genocide the German urban manual working class. Imagine if Walter Cronkite had been reporting from Hamburg or Dresden.

The Draft is National Socialism. The Draft is the most extreme form of Socialism. Being asked to give up your life for your nation is far more extreme socialism than paying some taxes or being forced to follow a few regulations. The Draft is not is an extreme form of socialism, but being drafted into a war encourages other socialist measures. The experience of mass citizen warfare encourages cross class respect and appreciation. War, at least in WWI and II for Britain was the great leveler. The Middle and upper class actually died in higher numbers proportionately than the lower classes.

Germany under Hitler and Italy under Mussolini, just took this national socialist mobilisation to an extra level. Fascist dictatorships, at least in the short and medium term are just better able to mobilise the resources of the country than a democracy. THE US only had it so easy in WWII, because it had such an abundance of resources to mobilise from and oceans to hide behind. In WWI despite the carnage and the horror many British young men didn't look forward to returning to ordinary mundane dreary life. But in Vietnam the calculus was completely different, you can't have one lot of people going to rock concerts and making love, while asking other young men to risk their lives in Vietnam.

[XogGyux]

That is all true, but the perception of racism has gone up as racism has gone down. The people that lived during slavery and Jim Crow had a better outlook than the young people of this era. There are actual voice recordings of slaves that were alive when magnetic tape recording technology became available. I think the PTSD is crucial and is never addressed. The lack of PTSD in African immigrants may be the reason why they succeed ahead of black Americans in the USA. The French know this and decided to do away with race ID politics or the concept of classifying humans according to skin color. The French still have racism, but the black French people do not have the stress of black Americans.





That is a good point. Perhaps we would have less violence if Trump used more conciliatory words. Perhaps I fail to see this point because as a Latin American in the USA I don't care if Trump says nice things or nasty things about Latin people. His words cannot hurt me as long as the economy is OK. When Trump said Mexicans crossing the border were rapists I lost no sleep. He was just pandering to his base to win the election.



Yes, and no. Perhaps the violence is small in relative terms, but videos do not lie. I would much rather live in a more civilized society

Before we move to any other point I need you to reflect on what you just wrote. In this post as in many others you seem to fully agree and in some cases partially agree with many points. This is troublesome and we won't get anywhere if we continue like this.
There is a problem.
Either you agree with me on the facts... and then there is a problem with one of us as far as logic is concerned. If this is the case, we need to identify what is exactly different, how you are arriving to different conclusions than me even though you seem to mostly agree on the facts. Or you don't mean what you say, either because you are trying to be polite and de-escalate, or you are being deceitful (consciously or unconsciously), or simply you are trolling. Any of those scenarios won't lead to any sort of meaningful debate.
So. I need to know what is it or we can simply stop wasting our time. I won't lie, I do think you are trolling, but I'd give you the benefit of the doubt.

Obviously YOU are the one that does not know world history. The natural state of man was violent till just the other day. And any group that could conquer another group did so until very recently. Conquering others is not a European thing! Conquering others is a Human thing.

First... the violence has not stopped. Conquest has shifted, once it was about lands and riches, today is more about ideology, technology and resources.
I never said it was a "European thing" either. Egypt, Greece, Mongolia, Mayan/Incan/Aztec just to name a few. For some reason, you jumped to Europe directly. I need to get this point across clearly... YOU BROUGHT IT UP. I am starting to suspect that this is another race thing, I am not sure, you tell me . Reflect on this as well... why did you jump straight to thinking that I was only thinking about Europeans? Does it say something about how obsessed YOU are with race? Is it possible that it is not the "left" but rather you? Reflect on this.

[Drlee]

@Julian658 Dude. Are you just going stream of consciousness? You clearly have no idea what you are saying. I keep taking it apart and you keep making up more nonsense.

You're right to identify the draft as a big part of the problem, but it wasn't the whole problem. There was no draft on the road to Basra, but the pressure was on the Army high command to bring that Turkey Shoot to an end in hours. We were able to send Bomber Command out night after night in our attempt to genocide the German urban manual working class. Imagine if Walter Cronkite had been reporting from Hamburg or Dresden.

That doesn't even make sense. Your comments are bizarre. I don't even know where to start. Non sequitur.

The Draft is National Socialism. The Draft is the most extreme form of Socialism.

Garbage. This is the kind of thing that 9th graders say. Not a hint of truth in it. Non sequitur.

Being asked to give up your life for your nation is far more extreme socialism than paying some taxes or being forced to follow a few regulations.

Nonsense. Doesn't even make sense at all.

The Draft is not is an extreme form of socialism,

Well which is it?

but being drafted into a war encourages other socialist measures.

Nonsensical non assertion.

The experience of mass citizen warfare encourages cross respect and appreciation.

War, at least in WWI and II for Britain was the great leveler. The Middle and upper class actually died in higher numbers proportionately than the lower classes.

IF this is true, and I am not certain it is, it would be absolutely traditional. The upper classes have always died in higher relative numbers. It was not until Vietnam that the difference became a problem. And that difference had to do with the draft laws.

Germany under Hitler and Italy under Mussolini, just took this national socialist mobilisation to an extra level. Fascist dictatorships, at least in the short and medium term are just better able to mobilise the resources of the country than a democracy.

This is patently untrue. Google Arsenal of Democracy. Where do you get such ideas? I fear you are thinking that you are sounding smart.

THE US only had it so easy in WWII, because it had such an abundance of resources to mobilise from and oceans to hide behind.

More nonsense. Easy? You mean because Germany could not effectively bomb us? What is your point?

In WWI despite the carnage and the horror many British young men didn't look forward to returning to ordinary mundane dreary life.

You are just making me tired. My grandfather fought in WWI in some of the most deadly battles of the war. He was gassed. He, and just about every WWI vet I ever met, US and Brit, absolutely could not wait to get home.

But in Vietnam the calculus was completely different, you can't have one lot of people going to rock concerts and making love, while asking other young men to risk their lives in Vietnam.

Uhhhh. Hmmm. Well you were not alive then. I was. I was in the Army during the Vietnam war. How to respond to this nonsense.....?

1. The draft was real. We all faced it. Before the lottery and after life was often a strategic plan to avoid it.

2. Uhhh. Soldiers go to rock concerts.

3. Soldiers make love. Solders in Vietnam were awash in sex on demand. You could get laid for a bar of soap. You could go on patrol, blow away some gooks, come back, shower, shave, hit the ville and get blown while you were having a bowl of Pho and listening to Country Joe and the Fish.

4. Sherman said "war is all hell". He is right. But it is also a great adventure. It is maturing beyond imagining. It fosters bonds between warriors that are something that you will never understand unless you do it. It is exhilarating beyond measure. Sometimes joyful. It is terrifying. Profoundly sad. Shocking. Violent and bestial. And for some, it is genteel and detached violence. But what it is not is a juxtaposition of fun and fear. The fear is always there. Even after you come home and hit that concert you mentioned.

Son you are confused. I totally get that you are working out what you believe by floating trial balloons here on POFO. We all do that to some degree. But why don't you try a new and very adult strategy. If you want to know about Vietnam, or the 60's or the Jim Crow south, you can ask me or Jimjam. If you have a medical question you can ask @XogGyux . Finance? Rancid or Special Olympian. Latin America? @tainari88 Socialism (and smart stuff in general) Potemkin. On and on. There are some very smart people here who have been there, done that, and got the tshirt.

[Julian658]

Before we move to any other point I need you to reflect on what you just wrote. In this post as in many others you seem to fully agree and in some cases partially agree with many points. This is troublesome and we won't get anywhere if we continue like this.
There is a problem.
Either you agree with me on the facts... and then there is a problem with one of us as far as logic is concerned. If this is the case, we need to identify what is exactly different, how you are arriving to different conclusions than me even though you seem to mostly agree on the facts. Or you don't mean what you say, either because you are trying to be polite and de-escalate, or you are being deceitful (consciously or unconsciously), or simply you are trolling. Any of those scenarios won't lead to any sort of meaningful debate.
So. I need to know what is it or we can simply stop wasting our time. I won't lie, I do think you are trolling, but I'd give you the benefit of the doubt.

You are correct! We agree on the facts, however, you make different conclusions. Racism will always exist, however, today racism is MUCH less than in the 50s and 60s. Despite the reduction in racism people perceive MORE racism that ever. That can only happen with some form of PTSD where the amygdala is hypertrophic. For example many black people break into severe anxiety by just seen a police car while they are driving. If they have difficulties in life they assume it must be systemic racism. The problem has to do with growing up in America where they are told they are victims of racism 24/7. And as you said racism still exists so this makes the PTSD much worse. Meanwhile Africans immigrants have much less difficulty because they are generally more confident. BTW, one cannot generalize, there are plenty of young smart American blacks that are super confident and thriving in America.

You are a STEM man and I dare say you are smarter than most in the forum. You also seem quite reasonable, but somehow feel compelled to tow the line regarding what seems to be correct line with the left and the issue of racism. You also have watched bits of the videos I have posted and actually discuss the content. Most people are in an echo chamber and would never do that. IN any event watch this video of Coleman Hughes. He is a young black male of American black and Puerto Rican parents who is only 24 and is making a niche for himself. He is a gifted musician and went to Juliard on a scholarship. Later he went to Columbia University and just graduated with a degree in philosophy. Between the ages of 16 and 20 he immersed himself 100% into the issues of racism and oppression. And then he changed! Just watch for a few minutes starting at 25:20.

First... the violence has not stopped. Conquest has shifted, once it was about lands and riches, today is more about ideology, technology and resources.
I never said it was a "European thing" either. Egypt, Greece, Mongolia, Mayan/Incan/Aztec just to name a few. For some reason, you jumped to Europe directly. I need to get this point across clearly... YOU BROUGHT IT UP. I am starting to suspect that this is another race thing, I am not sure, you tell me . Reflect on this as well... why did you jump straight to thinking that I was only thinking about Europeans? Does it say something about how obsessed YOU are with race? Is it possible that it is not the "left" but rather you? Reflect on this.

If you read Enlightenment by Steven Pinker you will see the world has changed significantly for the better. Nevertheless, I agree with you: We are barbarians! I assumed you were talking about that worm out theme of Europeans coming to America and because of that the Americas are hell. The crowd that hates Christopher Columbus. IN any event you are correct.

[XogGyux]

You are correct! We agree on the facts, however, you make different conclusions. Racism will always exist, however, today racism is MUCH less than in the 50s and 60s. Despite the reduction in racism people perceive MORE racism that ever. That can only happen with some form of PTSD where the amygdala is hypertrophic.

You have no idea how retarded those "hypothesis" sound. Stop trying to be a google doc, please.
And "racism will always exist" is simply an unacceptable lazy excuse. There were periods in times were diseased people were outcasts, leppers, homosexuals, dwarfs, women, etc. If all our ancestors had your attitude we would be living in caves.
And even if it was impossible, I would rather be on the side that does everything to eliminate it than on the side that keeps perpetuating it and putting gas to the fire.

You are a STEM man and I dare say you are smarter than most in the forum. You also seem quite reasonable, but somehow feel compelled to tow the line regarding what seems to be correct line with the left and the issue of racism. You also have watched bits of the videos I have posted and actually discuss the content. Most people are in an echo chamber and would never do that. IN any event watch this video of Coleman Hughes. He is a young black male of American black and Puerto Rican parents who is only 24 and is making a niche for himself. He is a gifted musician and went to Juliard on a scholarship. Later he went to Columbia University and just graduated with a degree in philosophy. Between the ages of 16 and 20 he immersed himself 100% into the issues of racism and oppression. And then he changed! Just watch for a few minutes starting at 25:20.

Dude and again with this. It seems like we are going in circle. You just said you agree with me on the facts, now it seems that you are trying to use the "look, there is a successful black person, there cannot really be that much racism can it?" Let's ignore that this is incredibly cherry-picked, but I can tell you, even those that are successful end up being discriminated as well. One of my cardiologist friend had to get rid of his beautiful red porshe because every so often he would be stopped by the police for "routine". Never ticketed... just targetted. Because the police found it funny that a black dude was driving a 200k car...
I myself have experienced some and I am not even black. I have taken care of patients that try to make fun of my accent in the most condescending way possible... I barely have an accent at all most people I speak with don't even notice and it didn't seem to be a problem during highschool and university (when it was worse) and certainly was not a hindrance for med school.
These kind of things, seem inoffensive and trivial. Certainly, I have never gotten mad myself, it is easy enough to brush up. However, it does point towards serious, deep trouble.

If you read Enlightenment by Steven Pinker you will see the world has changed significantly for the better.

Why did it change for the better?
My bet is that people realized of what was not working, what was unfair, what was barbaric and some of them did something about it. It seems to me you are saying "this is good enough, let's just call it a day" and not move forward. I refuse that attitude. We might not get a perfect world but that does not mean we should stop trying.

[Drlee]

I barely have an accent at all most people I speak with don't even notice and it didn't seem to be a problem during high school and university (when it was worse) and certainly was not a hindrance for med school.

I was in the outpatient clinic the other day with an internist friend who is from Guatemala. (By the way of John's Hopkins and Cornell.) As we walked through the lobby, both in scrubs, a lady shouted please help me. My friend turned and asked her if he could help and she indignantly said, "I was talking to the doctor." We had a good laugh but I know it offended him. It offended me.

[Wulfschilde]

Racism is a form of a self-preservation instinct. Similar as to feminism, the more people try to stamp it out while promoting violent ghetto blacks (or whoever), the more it will come back because they'll be getting those less susceptible to the instinct killed.

A more reasonable approach would be to try and address the valid root causes of racism, yet the left thinks that such policies are racism itself.

This is because they don't think past their next 20-minute long internet argument win.

[Drlee]

@Wulfschilde You do realize that your last post is self contradicting and otherwise makes no sense.

[Wulfschilde]

@Wulfschilde You do realize that your last post is self contradicting and otherwise makes no sense.

Maybe I explained it badly. It's like this. Let's say you're an African, you already got the short end of the stick. Arguably, the Africans never developed modern civilization on their own, I think it would suck to be an African. Obviously, many of them individually are more successful than I am but generally speaking, sounds like a bad start.

You know what else is a bad start? Being the child of a single mother / baby momma.

So if you have an African baby momma's kid, you've got the worst of both worlds. Your parent is a baby momma AND you're black. Yes, I know that some of those people have also been more successful than me but it's looking pretty bad at this point.

So like, some people think we should have fewer baby mommas. And that's what the left thinks racism is, trying to make the situation better with anything besides "derp communism has never been tried" is racism to them. I think it's ridiculous

[Julian658]

I was in the outpatient clinic the other day with an internist friend who is from Guatemala. (By the way of John's Hopkins and Cornell.) As we walked through the lobby, both in scrubs, a lady shouted please help me. My friend turned and asked her if he could help and she indignantly said, "I was talking to the doctor." We had a good laugh but I know it offended him. It offended me.

An anecdote to promote the concept of victimhood.

[Julian658]

You have no idea how retarded those "hypothesis" sound. Stop trying to be a google doc, please.
And "racism will always exist" is simply an unacceptable lazy excuse. There were periods in times were diseased people were outcasts, leppers, homosexuals, dwarfs, women, etc. If all our ancestors had your attitude we would be living in caves.
And even if it was impossible, I would rather be on the side that does everything to eliminate it than on the side that keeps perpetuating it and putting gas to the fire.

I was not promoting the concept that racism must be accepted. All I said was that PTSD can cause a false perception of racism where there is no racism. The above words are well taken, but you refuse to consider the issue of racial PTSD and the embracing of the noble victim status as a problem. Listen to Coleman Hughes once again.

Dude and again with this. It seems like we are going in circle. You just said you agree with me on the facts, now it seems that you are trying to use the "look, there is a successful black person, there cannot really be that much racism can it?" Let's ignore that this is incredibly cherry-picked, but I can tell you, even those that are successful end up being discriminated as well. One of my cardiologist friend had to get rid of his beautiful red porshe because every so often he would be stopped by the police for "routine". Never ticketed... just targetted. Because the police found it funny that a black dude was driving a 200k car...

Racism is real, yes. However, racism is much less than in the past. That your black friend can afford a 200k car is something that was not possible not long ago.

I myself have experienced some and I am not even black. I have taken care of patients that try to make fun of my accent in the most condescending way possible... I barely have an accent at all most people I speak with don't even notice and it didn't seem to be a problem during highschool and university (when it was worse) and certainly was not a hindrance for med school.
These kind of things, seem inoffensive and trivial. Certainly, I have never gotten mad myself, it is easy enough to brush up. However, it does point towards serious, deep trouble.

For the love of God do not embrace victimhood. BTW, I also have an accent. I enjoy having an accent.

[XogGyux]

I was not promoting the concept that racism must be accepted. All I said was that PTSD can cause a false perception of racism where there is no racism. The above words are well taken, but you refuse to consider the issue of racial PTSD and the embracing of the noble victim status as a problem. Listen to Coleman Hughes once again.

You do realize the PTSD analogy only works as an analogy right? There is no actual thing that you are claiming.

Racism is real, yes. However, racism is much less than in the past. That your black friend can afford a 200k car is something that was not possible not long ago.

Apparently, he cannot do that today either. Not without being harassed.
By any chance are you suggesting: "You lucky that you are only being harrassed and discriminated, 50 years ago we would have lynched your ass off just for having a bit extra melanin in your skin.
They should just be quiet and not annoy you with their "PTSD" crap . Fuck off.

For the love of God do not embrace victimhood. BTW, I also have an accent. I enjoy having an accent.

LOL