[Pants-of-dog]

I've already provided the proof that your "racist meme" claim is false, so i'm not debating it any further. You're choosing to ignore facts and so you're arguing in bad faith and dishonesty.

No, you did not.

You did not show it was true, nor did you show it was not racist. You showed one person’s salary without comparing it to the salaries of settler mayors in similar contexts.

Nor did you show that this salary us due to corruption. Nor did you show this was a general trait of chiefs.

Racism is pointing out facts that make a race look good or victimized while also ignoring & suppressing facts that make that same race look bad. You also do this with African-Americans. We should be laying all the facts bare on the table instead of trying to push false narratives.

Accusing me of racism is irrelevant and boring.

Why do you need this info? A chief is a leader of a band, clan, and/or first nation. The label is irrelevant, we could call them indigenous leaders or politicians etc.

Okay.

Are you talking about hereditary chiefs? Or elected chiefs? Or council members? Or AFN reps? Or what?

[Unthinking Majority]

No, you did not.

You did not show it was true, nor did you show it was not racist. You showed one person’s salary without comparing it to the salaries of settler mayors in similar contexts.

Nor did you show that this salary us due to corruption. Nor did you show this was a general trait of chiefs.

That chief was paid nearly a million dollars, and they represent a first nation band with a population of 120 people, with just 81 living on the reserve. They'd be the highest paid politician in Canada. The 2nd highest chief made 700k while representing a band of ~800 people. The next 3 highest each made about $350k, which about what the Prime Minister makes.

The vast majority of first nations reserves have a population under 1500 people. That would be about similar to a mayor of a small town. The average salary for a mayor in Canada is $65,000, in BC it's $45,000. Mayors of the biggest Canadian cities make up to around 180k. John Tory, mayor of Toronto makes $197k, Montreal mayor makes 168k. A Vancouver city councillor makes 86k, Ottawa city councillor makes 70k.

Here's what first nations chiefs in Canada make. Most seem to make reasonable money 100k or under. About 2 dozen made over 200k. Before this they didn't even publicly disclose their salaries, and 8 chiefs refuse to disclose and the Canadian government took them to court.

https://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa ... -salaries/

Are you talking about hereditary chiefs? Or elected chiefs? Or council members? Or AFN reps? Or what?

I don't know if they're elected or hereditary, they're politicians paid largely by Canadian taxpayers leading first nations that they call "chiefs". I don't see how their method of being chosen is relevant.

[Pants-of-dog]

That chief was paid nearly a million dollars, and they represent a first nation band with a population of 120 people, with just 81 living on the reserve. They'd be the highest paid politician in Canada. The 2nd highest chief made 700k while representing a band of ~800 people. The next 3 highest each made about $350k, which about what the Prime Minister makes.

Did you adjust these for the cost of northern living?

The vast majority of first nations reserves have a population under 1500 people. That would be about similar to a mayor of a small town. The average salary for a mayor in Canada is $65,000, in BC it's $45,000. Mayors of the biggest Canadian cities make up to around 180k. John Tory, mayor of Toronto makes $197k, Montreal mayor makes 168k. A Vancouver city councillor makes 86k, Ottawa city councillor makes 70k.

Provide evidence for this claim.

Here's what first nations chiefs in Canada make. Most seem to make reasonable money 100k or under. About 2 dozen made over 200k. Before this they didn't even publicly disclose their salaries, and 8 chiefs refuse to disclose and the Canadian government took them to court.

https://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa ... -salaries/

You know what?

This is all irrelevant.

Again, why did you and @Sivad bring this up?

Do not ignore this question again.

I don't know if they're elected or hereditary, they're politicians paid largely by Canadian taxpayers leading first nations that they call "chiefs". I don't see how their method of being chosen is relevant.

I understand that you do not think it is relevant and I understand why you think it is not relevant. If you knew why these chiefs are actually part of the colonial system, the corruption (if it exists on a more general level) is due to the fact that the system is built that way.

This is why I asked which chiefs. The fact that you are unaware of the different kinds of chiefs, and why there are different chiefs, and how the different chiefs fit into the system, makes it difficult to discuss this without tutoring you first in some arcane aspects of Canadian history.

But again, this is all irrelevant. Why did you and @Sivad focus on this instead of the racism showed by this judge and/or jury?

[Sivad]

Again, why did you and Sivad bring this up?

Why did I bring up the Grand Chief's race hustling in a discussion about retarded wokejob race hustling? I don't know, I guess it's because those racist non sequiturs are in me and sometimes they just gotta come out...

[Unthinking Majority]

Did you adjust these for the cost of northern living?

No, since most first nations reserves aren't located in the north. They also get their salaries tax-free, and pay no GST, which should be helpful to the ones in northern remote areas with high cost of living. I would also think those living in the north should ideally be entitled to somewhat higher pay for higher cost of living.

Provide evidence for this claim.

All these stats are easily searchable on google.

You know what?

This is all irrelevant.

Again, why did you and @Sivad bring this up?

Do not ignore this question again.

I don't follow orders, I will respond to whatever I choose.

I didn't bring it up, you made a claim and I made a counterclaim.

I understand that you do not think it is relevant and I understand why you think it is not relevant. If you knew why these chiefs are actually part of the colonial system, the corruption (if it exists on a more general level) is due to the fact that the system is built that way.

The system forces some people to steal money from their own people by skimming off the top? That's a new one.

There's a big difference between being a victim and having a victim mentality. Indigenous people have been sadly victimized for centuries and these injustices should be addressed. However, a victim mentality means that you never have to accept any responsibility for your own poor actions because you can always blame other people for your problems & actions. If a minority of chiefs are ripping of their own people, that's based on their own actions and they should incur the blame. Letting bad actors off the hook by making up excuses for them isn't helpful, and in fact is very harmful to them.

Similarly, I don't care if the idiot who threw the hitch had a bad childhood or was drunk etc., he made a stupid decision that killed somebody and should be punished appropriately and take responsibility for their actions.

This is why I asked which chiefs. The fact that you are unaware of the different kinds of chiefs, and why there are different chiefs, and how the different chiefs fit into the system, makes it difficult to discuss this without tutoring you first in some arcane aspects of Canadian history.

But again, this is all irrelevant. Why did you and @Sivad focus on this instead of the racism showed by this judge and/or jury?

I'm aware of different chiefs that exist, i'm not aware of which ones these are, because the info doesn't say.

I can't really make much of a comment on the reduced charges and claims of racism in this court case because I don't know all the details of the case. What i've said in this thread is that aboriginals are generally treated like crap by racist cops and the justice system. Whether this happened here I don't know. I hope the victim's family gets justice though, she was killed by an idiot doing something stupid.

[Pants-of-dog]

Why did I bring up the Grand Chief's race hustling in a discussion about retarded wokejob race hustling? I don't know, I guess it's because those racist non sequiturs are in me and sometimes they just gotta come out...

So you did solely to distract from the discussion of systemic racism.

——————

@Unthinking Majority

I will not discuss the racist meme until you answer the question.

Since your entire post is about that and not the thread topic, I guess the discussion is done.

It seems like you have also used this as a way of not discussing the systemic racism that was involved in this woman’s death and the reduced charges fced by her killer.

[Unthinking Majority]

I will not discuss the racist meme until you answer the question.

I did answer your question in my last post. I said I was simply responding to a claim you made.

But sure we've said our peace on the topic.

It seems like you have also used this as a way of not discussing the systemic racism that was involved in this woman’s death and the reduced charges fced by her killer.

You made a claim, I responded, that's all it is. I'm not trying hijack a thread or avoid talking about the case.

If there's racism involved in the decision on this case, it should be condemned. But we can't just throw around accusations of racism without evidence. A person threw a trailer hitch out a vehicle and then said "I got one" after it hit an aboriginal women who died 6 months later. That could be evidence of racism, but it's not clear if they were specifically aiming for aboriginal people. The charges then got reduced from 2nd degree murder to manslaughter. Manslaughter would seem to mean the person throwing the hitch threw it but didn't intend to hit/kill someone, which seems far fetched, so that's very suspicious. But I again I don't know anything much about the case.

[Pants-of-dog]

..... we can't just throw around accusations of racism without evidence. A person threw a trailer hitch out a vehicle and then said "I got one" after it hit an aboriginal women who died 6 months later. That could be evidence of racism, but it's not clear if they were specifically aiming for aboriginal people. The charges then got reduced from 2nd degree murder to manslaughter. Manslaughter would seem to mean the person throwing the hitch threw it but didn't intend to hit/kill someone, which seems far fetched, so that's very suspicious. But I again I don't know anything much about the case.

Again, I presented evidence for systemic racism. I also got you to agree that this racism is ongoing.

At this point, it would require a certain amount of evidence to show that this was not racism.

[Unthinking Majority]

Again, I presented evidence for systemic racism. I also got you to agree that this racism is ongoing.

At this point, it would require a certain amount of evidence to show that this was not racism.

That's not how the justice system, or science, works. You can't take generalities and apply them to all cases without evidence. That's exactly what racism is.

[Pants-of-dog]

Actually, science works exactly that way. But that is not relevant.

Also, this is not a court of law. According to the law, this young man who intentionally and joyfully assaulted a woman and injured her fatally was not trying to kill her. The only people who are claiming it is not a racially motivated attack are you, @Sivad, and the lawyer for the defence. Whether or not you and these others are correct in this regard is what we are debating.

On the one hand, we have systemic racism that has not ended. We have a country that is currently committing genocide according to the courts of that country, and we have a population of Canadians that clearly do not care about the ongoing genocide.

Thunder Bay is also the place where at least eight indigenous teens, mostly young women, have been found dead and the police have not investigated most of these deaths.

At this point, it seems clear that anyone in Thunder Bay knows that they can kill an indigenous woman and probably get away with it.

Now, if you wish to present no evidence and wish to discuss burden of proof instead of the actual case, feel free.

All of this

[ThirdTerm]

Last week, the Crown filed a new indictment against Brayden Bushby, 20, who had been charged with second-degree murder in Kentner's death. Bushby will now stand trial for manslaughter and aggravated assault.

This is the right call, given the fact that the cause of her death was not directly related to the motor accident. However, the abdominal injuries hastened her death and she could have lived longer without the accident. He should be sentenced to five years' imprisonment for aggravated assault but a judge can impose imprisonment for life for manslaughter. Brayden Bushby would be imprisoned for at least a decade, which is long enough.

[Sivad]

The only people who are claiming it is not a racially motivated attack are you, @Sivad, and the lawyer for the defence.

I never claimed that, you just made that up.

[Unthinking Majority]

Also, this is not a court of law. According to the law, this young man who intentionally and joyfully assaulted a woman and injured her fatally was not trying to kill her. The only people who are claiming it is not a racially motivated attack are you, @Sivad, and the lawyer for the defence. Whether or not you and these others are correct in this regard is what we are debating.

I'm have not and am not IN ANY WAY "claiming it is not a racially motivated attack". Where are you getting this from? Please quote me where i've said this. I've said with both the attacker and the court decision that either could be racially motivated. Given the history of racism in Thunder Bay and in the system yes it's obviously a possibility, and it should be investigated fully. I'm not saying it is or it isn't racism, evidence needs to be presented that it is. I'm 100% against unfair racist treatment of aboriginals, if this is the case here then they should make hate crime charges and the judge should be fired etc. But you also don't go around yelling "racism" and ruining people's careers without solid proof, that's called libel and slander. This is called "jumping to conclusions".

On the one hand, we have systemic racism that has not ended. We have a country that is currently committing genocide according to the courts of that country, and we have a population of Canadians that clearly do not care about the ongoing genocide.

Thunder Bay is also the place where at least eight indigenous teens, mostly young women, have been found dead and the police have not investigated most of these deaths.

At this point, it seems clear that anyone in Thunder Bay knows that they can kill an indigenous woman and probably get away with it.

There's obviously a lot of evidence that racism against aboriginals exists in Thunder Bay and the justice system. Whether it's happened here or not is the question. Just because racism has happened doesn't mean every single possible case is then automatically racism.

That's like an employer assuming you're an illegal immigrant just because you're a latino construction worker and there's a disproportionate amount of illegal immigrants working in that field. Again it's wrong to assume specific cases because of generalities without evidence. This is called "stereotyping" and "prejudice".

I'm not interested in discussing this topic further with you. "Justice" means everyone is treated fairly, regardless of race. This is the whole point. You either get this or you don't. You consistently apply double-standards to people according to their race, it's just weird and insidious.

[Pants-of-dog]

I never claimed that, you just made that up.

You specifically said that this was not a case of racism.

————————

@Unthinking Majority

What exactly is your argument?

Also, please stop with the personal attacks. Please note that I do not go around saying similar things about you.

[Sivad]

You specifically said that this was not a case of racism

no I didn't, you just made that up like a crazy pofo troll person.

[Pants-of-dog]

@Sivad

Everyone can read your words.

Do you have an actual argument? If so, please state it clearly and support it with evidence.

[Sivad]

Everyone can read your words.

They can't read words that aren't there. If those words were there to read you would have quoted them. This is just PoD person nonsense.

[Pants-of-dog]

@Sivad

viewtopic.php?p=15134831#p15134824

[QatzelOk]

No. Pointing out facts is not counterproductive. Nor is pointing out racism.

Agree.

But obesessing about racism in this thread, if racism is not the main motivating factor, would be counterproductive in understanding where "guys throwing things at people from their trucks" comes from.

If you can demonstrate that "guys only throw stuff from their trucks at First Nation victims," then you would be very productive.

If you would at least acknowledge the damage done to that suburban male by the suburban condtion itself, this would also allow for more productivity.

[Dimetrodon]

After looking into this, I do realize that there is a problem that native women have to face, and steps should be taken to fix that problem. That being said, I'm not "decolonizing myself" or "deconstructing myself" or subscribing to critical theory or other Frankfurt School garbage.