How to deal with Trump? - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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By Beren
#15158290
I wonder if pushing for jailing Trump is a good idea, like I also wonder if pushing for his second impeachment was a good idea as well. Did that another failed impeachment hurt him, or did it rather actually help him? Trump won't be jailed anyway, so people are pushing for a predictable failure again, not to mention the consequences if he got really jailed. Would anyone care about anything else while violence would be unleashing all over the US? It'd be absolutely counterproductive and detrimental even if it were justifiable, and it would only serve Trump. I'm convinced that further polarisation and political or whatever escalation only serves Trump, especially if it's incited by the other side.

So how to deal with Trump? Or rather how to deal with Trump effectively? In my opinion it's the same question as to whether how to deal with Trump smartly.
#15158291
Beren wrote:I wonder if pushing for jailing Trump is a good idea, like I also wonder if pushing for his second impeachment was a good idea as well.


On jail: ex President Trump should be if he's found quilty of serious crime, but I worry that the country’s right wing will come acropper. Strip him of his wealth and properties as was done to Paul Manafort and all his post presidentI'll perks.

On second impeachment: historians will note that this was down to his party, not his innocence.
User avatar
By Verv
#15158292
Beren wrote:I wonder if pushing for jailing Trump is a good idea, like I also wonder if pushing for his second impeachment was a good idea as well. Did that another failed impeachment hurt him, or did it rather actually help him? Trump won't be jailed anyway, so people are pushing for a predictable failure again, not to mention the consequences if he got really jailed. Would anyone care about anything else while violence would be unleashing all over the US? It'd be absolutely counterproductive and detrimental even if it were justifiable, and it would only serve Trump. I'm convinced that further polarisation and political or whatever escalation only serves Trump, especially if it's incited by the other side.


Right, it would completely play into what Trump is saying, that he has been persecuted and subject to lies, disinformation, and legal processes that others would never have to face.

It also no longer seems to have relevance -- people can stomach looking closely at the sitting President of the US and playing hardball, but continuing these actions seems completely unnecessary.

So how to deal with Trump? Or rather how to deal with Trump effectively? In my opinion it's the same question as to whether how to deal with Trump smartly.


He doesn't need to be dealt with at all.

Sure, maybe there's random financial irregularities or unscrupulous business practices that deserve to be looked into still, but this is the same for any giant institution, and we have to be careful that we are not looking at everything connected to Trump with a microscope while ignoring everyone else.

He's a free man in a free country who is entitled to state his opinions.

Debate him or something.
#15158294
I mean how Trump should be dealt with politically, how he should be treated as a political problem or challenge, not as a corrupt businessman. In the OP I more-or-less mean to say that he should be dealt with by political means rather than using sheer (and brutal) legal force on him because the latter one would be politically ineffective, disruptive and finally counterproductive.
User avatar
By Beren
#15158315
wat0n wrote:I think the long term damage of giving him special treatment would likely be worse.

He seems to have got special treatment his whole life. I mean he's got away with anything so far and he didn't even need to be a special figure for that, he just needed a lot of lawyers. I guess now that he's former president having got 74M votes, he should cease to get any special treatment he used to get for the sake of the long-term integrity of the system. :lol:
#15158318
He's going to run and win again. Then all of Bidens policies will be reversed. :lol:

Ah paralysis, it's a hell of a slow imperial death.
#15158319
Beren wrote:He seems to have got special treatment his whole life. I mean he's got away with anything so far and he didn't even need to be a special figure for that, he just needed a lot of lawyers. I guess now that he's former president having got 74M votes, he should cease to get any special treatment he used to get for the sake of the long-term integrity of the system. :lol:


I think we both know that some of the stuff he's being accused of doing is more serious than anything he did before becoming POTUS.
User avatar
By Rancid
#15158322
Politically, it's all in the hands of Republicans. Clearly they are not willing to do much of anything, so really, Trump will get what he wants, and it won't be good for America in the long term.
User avatar
By Beren
#15158324
wat0n wrote:I think we both know that some of the stuff he's being accused of doing is more serious than anything he did before becoming POTUS.

I don't know if what you know, as far as I know he's supposed to go to jail for tax fraud, for which he could have been sent to jail earlier as well, I guess. I wonder if he'll be accused of treason, the only crime he could actually be sent to prison for.
By wat0n
#15158347
Beren wrote:I don't know if what you know, as far as I know he's supposed to go to jail for tax fraud, for which he could have been sent to jail earlier as well, I guess. I wonder if he'll be accused of treason, the only crime he could actually be sent to prison for.


You are forgetting tampering with vote counting in GA. That's also a felony.
#15158353
Beren wrote:I wonder if pushing for jailing Trump is a good idea, like I also wonder if pushing for his second impeachment was a good idea as well. Did that another failed impeachment hurt him, or did it rather actually help him? Trump won't be jailed anyway, so people are pushing for a predictable failure again, not to mention the consequences if he got really jailed. Would anyone care about anything else while violence would be unleashing all over the US? It'd be absolutely counterproductive and detrimental even if it were justifiable, and it would only serve Trump. I'm convinced that further polarisation and political or whatever escalation only serves Trump, especially if it's incited by the other side.

So how to deal with Trump? Or rather how to deal with Trump effectively? In my opinion it's the same question as to whether how to deal with Trump smartly.


I struggling to think why convicting someone of a serious crime is a bad idea. :?:

Or more importantly why sending him to jail wouldn't be dealing with him "smartly". :?:

I don't even think politically it would be a bad move either. It kind of sends the message that nobody is above the law. However I can see why the establishment might think it is "Bad optics" in any case. And it might rattle the loony right for a few nights of civil unrest I guess. But perhaps that is more to do with ulterior reasonings on both counts.

Whether Trump goes to jail really depends on whether he is regarded as a threat I suspect. It would be an easy way to control him. But he has been silent as of late. So perhaps things might go away. But that doesn't seem the case looking at how things have been moving. Perhaps the political establishment have already had enough.
By Rugoz
#15158358
Beren wrote:I mean how Trump should be dealt with politically, how he should be treated as a political problem or challenge, not as a corrupt businessman. In the OP I more-or-less mean to say that he should be dealt with by political means rather than using sheer (and brutal) legal force on him because the latter one would be politically ineffective, disruptive and finally counterproductive.


Eh...separation of powers?
#15158360
B0ycey wrote:
I struggling to think why convicting someone of a serious crime is a bad idea. :?:



You can't have a civilisation without it...
#15158364
How to deal with Trump? Throw him behind bars where he belongs.
#15158371
People clearly have some kind of PTSD when it comes to Trump eh? How odd.

I don’t think he’s going to run again. He’s no spring chicken and I doubt he’d want to put himself through that shit again.
By late
#15158372
ness31 wrote:
People clearly have some kind of PTSD when it comes to Trump eh?



As does the FBI...

You might want to wait a bit and see what comes of it..
By ness31
#15158375
Why, what’s he done this time? Did I miss some news?
#15158379
Stormsmith wrote:Strip him of his wealth and properties as was done to Paul Manafort and all his post presidentI'll perks.

That's strictly prohibited by the fifth amendment. Do you realize the Bill of Rights was drafted to safeguard against people like you?

Stormsmith wrote:On second impeachment: historians will note that this was down to his party, not his innocence.

Then they would need to explain why he wasn't prosecuted the moment he left the presidency. The reason is that he is not guilty as a matter of law.

Verv wrote:Right, it would completely play into what Trump is saying, that he has been persecuted and subject to lies, disinformation, and legal processes that others would never have to face.

On the contrary, as Stormsmith points out, Manafort did have to face it. He also did not have to face it before hand, suggesting that he had some sort of non-prosecution agreement with the DoJ that did not apply to the special counsel.

Verv wrote:It also no longer seems to have relevance -- people can stomach looking closely at the sitting President of the US and playing hardball, but continuing these actions seems completely unnecessary.

It's obviously ridiculous to the country at large, but for the Janus that is the establishment, they had Hillary Clinton and Jeb Bush in mind. Remember early in the primaries, I said the only person I DID NOT want was Joe Biden. Yet, the guy who came in fourth in Iowa, fifth in New Hampshire, and second in Nevada inexplicably had all the opponents who were doing better than him drop out, except for Elizabeth Warren whose job it was to undermine support for Bernie Sanders. Then, he started winning and promptly went into hiding until a few debates where he was roundly trounced even though the moderators were clearly trying to help him. The cabal has no end to its chicanery, but it's weak and unpopular in the United States now. They clearly do not understand why, so their standard answer is to try to attack the character of their strongest opponents. That's why Newsom and Cuomo are coming under attack from Harris now.

Verv wrote:Sure, maybe there's random financial irregularities or unscrupulous business practices that deserve to be looked into still, but this is the same for any giant institution, and we have to be careful that we are not looking at everything connected to Trump with a microscope while ignoring everyone else.

A man like Trump is papered over with lawyers.

Beren wrote:I mean how Trump should be dealt with politically, how he should be treated as a political problem or challenge, not as a corrupt businessman.

I don't think there is an effective remedy, because the establishment refuses to deal with the reasons Trump was elected (and then re-elected). Biden has even done things like repeal executive orders to have illegal alien sex offenders receive priority deportments. What on Earth would be in the interest of the United States to keep illegal alien sex offenders in the United States? The establishment cannot destroy Trump's character, because he was a known quantity going in and people voted for Trump in spite of his character, not because they overlooked something about him. On the contrary, it's Biden who received favorable press treatment and many would reconsider their votes had they known about the scandals associated with his son.

Beren wrote:In the OP I more-or-less mean to say that he should be dealt with by political means rather than using sheer (and brutal) legal force on him because the latter one would be politically ineffective, disruptive and finally counterproductive.

They are using legal means, because political means failed them. You have to seriously ask yourself questions like "Why would Biden rescind on an executive order prioritizing deportment of sex offender illegal aliens?" Who exactly would win in that scenario politically? There is virtually no significant constituency in the United States to welcome in the world's sex offenders. We're in the middle of a pandemic. Why is it a good idea to ban people from coming to the United States unless they have had a covid test within 72 hours of entry and tested negative--except if they are illegal aliens? The establishment makes no sense. They have lost credibility with the American people for a reason. They have lost politically for a reason. That is why they attack Trump legally. That is why they cheat in elections. That is why they try to gaslight the country with propaganda.

Even Biden's commentary like, "We're back!" or "America's back" rings hollow, because the UK is no longer part of the EU and neoliberal parties in Europe are in steep decline in favor of nationalist parties.

Beren wrote:I mean he's got away with anything so far and he didn't even need to be a special figure for that, he just needed a lot of lawyers.

A lot of lawyers will keep you out of jail and keep you from committing criminal acts. If you have civil cases against Trump, you can bring them, but he's quite adept at fighting them.

Wat0n wrote:You are forgetting tampering with vote counting in GA. That's also a felony.

He never had his hands on a single ballot. It'll never work. Instead, you'll just put the story of voter fraud front-and-center again, and already 3/4 of Republicans think it was fraud.

B0ycey wrote:I struggling to think why convicting someone of a serious crime is a bad idea. :?:

Why do you think it is a good idea? Democrats have been convicted of serious crimes, thrown out of office, and been re-elected. It seems that you think if you can get Trump convicted, you will undermine political support for him. As long as Trump has a monopoly on opposition to illegal immigration and free trade with China, he will have strong political support.

B0ycey wrote:It kind of sends the message that nobody is above the law.

It sends the message that anyone who opposes the non-democratic permanent political establishment will be subject to unwarranted investigations, prosecutions and punishments. That only pisses people off even more.

B0ycey wrote:And it might rattle the loony right for a few nights of civil unrest I guess.

If those crowds came armed, there is nothing the Capitol police could have done to stop them or protect members of Congress. That's why the fencing is there. They already have "bad optics." If Biden received 81M votes legitimately, he would scarcely need secret service protection except against the lone anarchist or something. Yet, we now have barrier fencing and razorwire around Congress--utterly defeating the imagery and pageantry of democracy. The person who needs to go is Nancy Pelosi. She has done immeasurable damage to the US because she was so easily trolled by Trump and could not stomach the fact that he triggered her endlessly.

Do you see barbed wire all over the Kremlin? Putin looks better than the US right now. Hell, even a ruthless absolute dictator like Kim Jong Il doesn't allow imagery like that.

B0ycey wrote:Whether Trump goes to jail really depends on whether he is regarded as a threat I suspect.

He has been regarded as a threat from the moment he won in 2016.

ness31 wrote:I don’t think he’s going to run again. He’s no spring chicken and I doubt he’d want to put himself through that shit again.

Trump had coat tails. So he's in a position to play king maker. He's going to decompress for awhile. However, he's not going to go quietly. He's already shown that. I have no idea what he will do, but he's not going to do nothing. He will settle some scores, no doubt.
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