[Pants-of-dog]

The best chess player I faced IRL was YEC, and he was also one of the smartest boys in the school. Very sharp. He now has a prestigious position in a shipping & logistics company and makes crazy money with an attractive wife. Very outstanding guy.

And he was one of two YEC people I knew growing up in a rural state.

So, I have a strange relationship with YEC.

I am definitely not YEC, but I am less critical of it than most people.

I think this is a case where there are strong arguments it was.

I am not even necessarily sure of how to navigate this because the laws can produce radically different results in the US even when it is determined that the actions a person did basically killed someone.

A very important example of this is unfolding now:

You do not seem to disagree that there are a large number of US citizens who do not rely on verifiable facts to inform their worldview.

[annatar1914]

@Verv, you said in reply to POD that;

The best chess player I faced IRL was YEC, and he was also one of the smartest boys in the school. Very sharp. He now has a prestigious position in a shipping & logistics company and makes crazy money with an attractive wife. Very outstanding guy.

And he was one of two YEC people I knew growing up in a rural state.

So, I have a strange relationship with YEC.

I am definitely not YEC, but I am less critical of it than most people.

Well, I am ''YEC'' myself, and unapologetically so, although I generally don't discuss it on this forum for a number of reasons. I would be happy to discuss it with you though perhaps, you and a few others maybe. Obviously I find POD's opinion on the matter to be deficient (as upon other issues), but hardly surprising given the zeitgeist of which he is certainly a part.

And the modern world they live in would be impossible for them intellectually if ''YEC'' were true, so obviously it cannot be, so it will not be allowed to disturb them further. I expect it's teaching and dissemination to be declared illegal before too much longer.

Is this trial related to this issue or am I on a tangent? No, it's related. Man is now no more than a graduate beast of no special innate meaning within himself ontologically, especially in relation to other men, and this particular incident and it's denouement is just another example of this.

Socio-political systems of law and justice created during a period when YEC was the accepted paradigm, the legal framework which was informed by things like natural law and natural right, cannot long survive the teaching and imposition of the alternative to YEC. This too can be clearly seen in my opinion, and some minds on the other side see that just as clearly, I think you would find.

Chauvin will be punished, and justly so (although possibly less or more than I expect or he deserves). But whatever his punishment or those of his fellow officers, it won't be enough to satisfy the mob, and there will be renewed rioting, looting, murder and arson in the cities of America.

[Godstud]

Chauvin will be punished, and justly so (although possibly less or more than I expect or he deserves). But whatever his punishment or those of his fellow officers, it won't be enough to satisfy the mob, and there will be renewed rioting, looting, murder and arson in the cities of America.

You, like Verv, have been a supporter of police brutality and authoritarianism, from the start.

Fitting justice will get a fitting response. I doubt that it will be fitting, given the false narrative that you and others are trying to create.

Black Lives Matter, even if certain shit-wits don't think they should.

[SpecialOlympian]

Police have to consistently enforce laws or the laws themselves will be flagrantly and routinely violated because people will know that they can then get away with them because no police officer will use force to restrain them over a counterfeit twenty dollar bill.

We don't have consistent enforcement of laws by race or social standing to begin with so what's your point? There was no justification for Floyd being murdered in broad daylight over a petty offense people can commit without being aware of it. Nobody was made safer by this and knowing counterfeiters have not been taught a lesson.

They knew who he was. Issue a court summons. If he doesn't show up issue a warrant and then you have justified use of force.

[ness31]

The use of force training officer has just testified that it's ok to murder a suspect if the crowd asks you to stop murdering the suspect.

Are you referring to Johnny Mercil? I just watched that testimony and didn’t come away with that impression at all.

Regarding the body cam photos, I could barely make heads or tails of most of them except the one where Floyd’s pulse was being taken..

Prosecution smashed it at the end. Defense looks weak.

Edit - if I had a big red pen, I’d draw a line through my first sentence. You’re right ingliz

[Heisenberg]

I have to say, I'm pleasantly surprised by the fact several police officers are testifying against Chauvin, rather than the usual "blue wall of silence". Although I suspect that isn't exactly for noble reasons.

[annatar1914]

:roll: You, like Verv, have been a supporter of police brutality and authoritarianism, from the start.

Fitting justice will get a fitting response. I doubt that it will be fitting, given the false narrative that you and others are trying to create.

Black Lives Matter, even if certain shit-wits don't think they should.

@Godstud , you can emote and work yourself into a righteous tizzy all you want and make all kinds of assumptions and assertions about me or why I am speaking about this trial....

But what I am saying is that no matter what verdict from the jury comes down, right or wrong, just or unjust, there are going to be riots and fires and bloodshed. Some people are going to be unsatisfied with any verdict whatsoever short of public televised executions of the accused, and will be out in the streets causing trouble no matter what. That's my prediction and the substance of what I'm saying. I'm not trying to ''create a false narrative'' at all. I haven't followed the trial much, because what I think about Chauvin doesn't matter. Is it worth burning the cities over, rioting and looting? Is the verdict going to change lives in a positive way, improve racial and social relations? Is the media helping matters? Can the accused get a fair trial, and can justice be served, or is this whole being politicized in order to justify either lawlessness or authoritarianism?

These are the important questions people should be thinking about and finding answers to. You don't know me. I've been on the receiving end of police brutality and injustice myself, and I don't worship authority in and of itself in this fallen world.

[Godstud]

@annatar1914 You WANT there to be riots. That's how you justify your ideology.

[annatar1914]

@annatar1914 You WANT there to be riots. That's how you justify your ideology.

@Godstud ;

You must be projecting again. I don't want riots, God no. But it'll happen in my opinion as surely as the sky is blue and water is wet. I don't want to be right.

[wat0n]

@wat0n There being 4 police officers present, and George Floyd being handcuffed face down on the ground, made the use of such an extreme form of restraint unwarranted.

The neck restraint? Absolutely, but I'm referring to the junior officers involved. It seems they had just started their careers the same week or something like that.

If they weren't trained on neck restraints, and it seems they weren't, doesn't this mitigate their criminal responsibility?

[noemon]

If they weren't trained on neck restraints, and it seems they weren't, doesn't this mitigate their criminal responsibility?

Not really, the video is conclusive evidence that they were all complicit to murder.

Heeding the words: "I can't breath" does not require special training.

Some people are going to be unsatisfied with any verdict whatsoever short of public televised executions of the accused, and will be out in the streets causing trouble no matter what. That's my prediction and the substance of what I'm saying.

You are throwing the sadistic murderers as the victims of the story and society expecting justice as the culprits of violence.

Your narrative is transparent, ludicrous and is openly arguing for sadistic murder.

Godstud is correct and on your case. It's quite obvious.

[wat0n]

Not really, the video is conclusive evidence that they were all complicit to murder.

Heeding the words: "I can't breath" does not require special training.

Fair point. I don't know, really, but as you say it's possible they may not get to mitigate it.

I honestly don't know - I guess this is up to the courts to decide.

[Unthinking Majority]

The neck restraint? Absolutely, but I'm referring to the junior officers involved. It seems they had just started their careers the same week or something like that.

If they weren't trained on neck restraints, and it seems they weren't, doesn't this mitigate their criminal responsibility?

Not sure. I really hope not.

I hope they're suing the department/the city. Clearly some major systemic failure here within the department if not the city itself. The mayor and city council is also culpable, the buck stops with them.

[wat0n]

Not sure. I really hope not.

I hope they're suing the department/the city. Clearly some major systemic failure here within the department if not the city itself. The mayor and city council is also culpable, the buck stops with them.

They already did. The city settled for $27 million.

[late]

Put a pin in this. When the guilty verdict comes down, and there are no riots... let's remind the goofy they were wrong (again).

[annatar1914]

Put a pin in this. When the guilty verdict comes down, and there are no riots... let's remind the goofy they were wrong (again).

@late ,

You people sure love making personal attacks, don't you? Must be a guilty conscience. Put a pin in this; I hope that people don't riot, because returning evil with evil is wrong.

The only people I've ever known to actually relish a riot and hope one starts up are of the Anarchistic and Nihilistic sort.

[Saeko]

Some people. *raised eyebrow*

[SpecialOlympian]

@late The only people I've ever known to actually relish a riot and hope one starts up are of the Anarchistic and Nihilistic sort.

I totally believe you hang out with cool people like that.

[ness31]

Is anyone watching Dr Tobin give testimony? ☹️

When the court publishes the photos for evidence I certainly hope they’re seeing a lot more than what I am. I generally cannot ever see what they’re describing ..

[B0ycey]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-56670912

So a doctor says Floyd died of asphyxiation. I think that is now case closed...