If you want gun control, shouldn't the Second Amendment be repealed/amended? - Page 14 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15166366
jimjam wrote:I am in favor of gun ownership but, sorry, this strikes me as mass insanity/stupidity.

I posted this in TLTE, but this seems a better place for it.

In context, @Goranhammer was condemning the sale of 80% lowers.

Goranhammer wrote: Nobody is buying one because it's an aesthetical masterpiece

Correct.

Nobody I know has ever called a Glock pretty. But an 80% lower is a cheap way to get a custom pistol with a minimum of tools and skill.

Glock doesn't give you a choice of ported barrel anymore, and I've never seen a threaded barrel on a stock Glock. That isn't a problem when you are building your own. Extended slide stops, magazine releases, '-' connectors, trigger bars, etc., etc. can all be fitted to your liking, and you don't end up with a pile of parts you'll never use.

For the responsible American* gun owner who wants a cheap reliable pistol custom-made to their specifications, 80% lowers are the bee's knees.


:)

Now you might think the above is highly irresponsible, and it is, but when you have 450** 398 million guns, many of them unregistered, I don't think a few 100 thousands more make much of a difference; banning them is just playing at regulation.

As is Biden in banning bump stocks*** and pistol braces. What good will it do? You don't need a device to bump fire and a one-point sling, if used properly, works just as well as a brace.


* The law is different here.

** I just took a middling estimate, but I am perfectly happy using @jimjam's number. Some ideologically motivated firearm advocates assert that American civilians own as many as 600 million guns.

*** Bump fire stocks, commonly and incorrectly referred to in the media as “bump stocks”, are an attempt to simulate full-auto fire. The way they do this, however, sacrifices all manner of stability and bone support. The rifle bounces around in all manner of ways that it wouldn’t when firing semiautomatic or even fully automatic.

Full-auto fire isn’t exactly the best way to maintain precision accuracy, but bump fire throws accuracy out the window entirely.
#15168503
Drlee wrote:You know we get a lot of really long posts about these very few words.


My posts tend to be long because I precisely quote what I am rebutting / replying to and then I precisely rebut and/or reply.

You speak of, "these few words" . . . I find it amusing I am forced to assume you are talking about the 2nd Amendment because you couldn't be bothered to quote what you are replying to.

I'm surprised that a board that revels in its intellectualism, celebrates replies to each other that are but emotional streams of consciousness saying nothing of real significance, pertaining to nothing that was said directly to you. . . . And of course predicated with lamentations about the length of posts.

Drlee wrote:But here is the thing that always remains.

The US gun laws are abjectly stupid.


I agree. Laws that intend to control the actions of criminals by restricting the actions of citizens who are NOT criminals, is very stupid, even when declared by disingenuous statist authoritarians as "common sense".

Drlee wrote:We lose an obscene number of people in the US to gun violence


The guns don't creep around shooting people by themselves. It's people pulling those triggers and the vast majority of those people consider it their daily job to violate the laws of society. The problem is, in many high-crime areas, the police are out there arresting criminals but the criminal justice system has been given a revolving door, and armed criminals rarely face consequences until they finally kill someone. I lived in this hellhole for 30 years:

Image

And Philly isn't unique and it shows:

  • "The United States can really be divided up into three types of places. Places where there are no murders, places where there are a few murders, and places where murders are very common.

    In 2014, the most recent year that a county-level breakdown is available, 54% of counties (with 11% of the population) have no murders. 69% of counties have no more than one murder, and about 20% of the population. . . .

    The worst 1% of counties have 19% of the population and 37% of the murders. The worst 2% of counties contain 28% of the population and 51% of the murders. The worst 5% of counties contain 47% of the population and account for 68% of murders. But even within those counties the murders are very heavily concentrated in small areas. . . ."

    https://crimeresearch.org/2017/04/numbe ... -1-murder/

And those areas are getting worse, considerably worse in today's climate of social justice and unmitigated hostility to law enforcement.

Drlee wrote: Our laws, no matter what obtuse argument one might make about the second amendment are simply stupid.


And there is a big push to ignore the Constitution and make those laws even stupider, by orders of magnitude.

Oh well, I'll stop now, post is long enough.

Don't take that to mean you didn't say plenty worthy of rebuttal.

.
#15168912
I've heard your shit before. Probably since before you were born.

I was a career soldier. I am not against "guns". That is your argument. I own guns and can legally carry them. I almost never do. You could say never because it would take a remarkable set of circumstances to get me to do it.

You point out that "guns don't creep around shooting people by themselves". I quite agree. I am not for disposing of guns. I am for disarming people who have no compelling reason to carry one and then only with comprehensive training to do so similar to that which the police receive. Though I would add that the police would be far better off if guns were not so prevalent in the general population.

You may feel safer with your piece under your jacket. Your feelings are of no concern to me. The fact is that you are not.

Your statistics about gun possession arrests are irrelevant. They tell us nothing about guns and only a little about the justice system.

In the case of guns it is the US against the world and we do very poorly in comparison. I am not made safer by my gun ownership. By any measure I am less safe. The fact that I have been extensively trained in their use and am very reluctant to fiddle with them makes me safer but only somewhat.

I don't know you but I will tell you that you would not be permitted to carry a firearm on my property. Why? Because I am not a fool.
#15246459
Two outta three ain't bad!


17-year-old shoots, kills 2 armed men during attempted home invasion in Channelview, sheriff says

CHANNELVIEW, Texas (KTRK) -- Two armed men were shot and killed by a 17-year-old while they attempted a home invasion, according to Harris County Sheriff Ed Gonzalez.

On Friday at about 10:40 p.m., deputies with the Harris County Sheriff's Office responded to an in-progress shooting call in the 16000 block of 1st Street.

Upon arrival, deputies said they located two men with apparent gunshot wounds on the lawn along the side of a residence.

Both men were pronounced dead at the scene by paramedics, according to Gonzalez.

Investigators said the two men and a third unidentified suspect were armed and wearing masks during an "attempt to force entry" into the home.

A woman, a 12-year-old boy, and two 17-year-old men were inside the home during the attempted home invasion but were not injured, according to Gonzalez.

Deputies said one of the 17-year-olds retrieved a shotgun and discharged it several times, striking the two intruders.

The third suspect fled the scene in an unidentified dark-colored, 4-door sedan.

There were no other reported injuries.

https://abc13.com/17-year-old-kills-sus ... /12219147/
#15254107
Gun deaths continued to surge across the United States in the second year of the pandemic, reaching 48,832 in 2021, according to provisional data from the Centers of Disease Control and Prevention. It now stands as the highest single-year tally on record, up 8 percent from the previous record in 2020, when 45,222 people died of gunshot wounds.




The U.S. Department of Transportation’s National Highway Traffic Safety Administration released its 2020 annual traffic crash data, showing that 38,824 lives were lost in traffic crashes nationwide.


And you have to have a license to drive a car.
#15254120
Abatis wrote:The guns don't creep around shooting people by themselves.

A new poll by YouGov and The Economist found that 43% of Americans believe a civil war will break out in the next 10 years.

It also found that Republicans are more likely to agree that such a conflict will take place soon.


— Business Insider, Aug. 31, 2022

It appears likely you will get to play with your toys.

Or maybe, not.

People are not paper targets; they will be firing back.


:)
#15254131
@BlutoSays

Why would it?

The power to enact laws in the interests of public health, safety, and the welfare of the people, is vested in the states. And it is this police power that the state and local authorities use to regulate the purchase, possession, transfer, and use of firearms.


:)
#15254137
ingliz wrote:@BlutoSays

Why would it?

The power to enact laws in the interests of public health, safety, and the welfare of the people, is vested in the states. And it is this police power that the state and local authorities use to regulate the purchase, possession, transfer, and use of firearms.


:)


Those laws are state laws and statutes. They do not override the U.S. Constitution.
#15254142
BlutoSays wrote:They do not override the U.S. Constitution

They do not, as there is no constitutional bar to licensing or registering firearms. Read, and you will see nothing in the 2nd Amendment that prohibits it.


:)
#15254143
ingliz wrote:They do not, as there is no constitutional bar to licensing or registering firearms. Read, and you will see nothing in the 2nd Amendment that prohibits it.


:)


Of course it does. It infringes on a person's right to own a firearm by placing additional burdens on them not spelled out in the Constitution.
#15254151
BlutoSays wrote:not spelled out in the Constitution

Persons who are barred from possessing a firearm in the US.

Any person who...

a) Has been convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year

b) Is a fugitive from justice

c) Is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance

d) Has been adjudicated as a mental defective or committed to a mental institution

e) Is an alien illegally or unlawfully in the United States or who has been admitted to the United States under a non-immigrant visa

f) Has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions

g) Having been a citizen of the United States has renounced U.S. citizenship

h) Is subject to a court order that restrains the person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of such intimate partner

i) Has been convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence

j) Is under indictment for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year


:lol:
#15254155
BlutoSays wrote:It infringes on a person's right to own a firearm

A collective rights theory of the Second Amendment asserts that citizens do not have an individual right to possess guns and that local, state, and federal legislative bodies, therefore, possess the authority to regulate firearms without implicating a constitutional right.


:)
#15254156
ingliz wrote:Persons who are barred from possessing a firearm in the US.

Any person who...

a) Has been convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year

b) Is a fugitive from justice

c) Is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance

d) Has been adjudicated as a mental defective or committed to a mental institution

e) Is an alien illegally or unlawfully in the United States or who has been admitted to the United States under a non-immigrant visa

f) Has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions

g) Having been a citizen of the United States has renounced U.S. citizenship

h) Is subject to a court order that restrains the person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of such intimate partner

i) Has been convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence

j) Is under indictment for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year


:lol:


All unconstitutional. We'll work to tip those piss-poor decisions over.

November 8 is coming !!
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