Foreign Visa Workers Take Two-Thirds of New Tech Jobs Each Year in US - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15162044
@JohnRawls

Well a penetration test and Red Team/Blue Team exercises are different. Penetration test only lasts like a week or two weeks. Red Team/Blue Team exercises last months at a time and can involve all kinds of various different ways to find weaknesses in an organization information, network and end point security. Red Team/Blue Team exercises last months at a time (think in terms of like 6 months) to get better simulation of how real world hackers will operate over a long period of time being patient and finding vulnerabilities and weakness in an organization's information and cyber security.

For example, the recent Russian hacks involved like a 1,000 Russian engineers and they were very patient over a long period of time before they were able to exploit vulnerabilities to conduct a successful hack. So, real world hacking takes place over long periods of time where hackers seek to go undetected and are very patient. They rely primarily on stealth and patience. It's a cat and mouse game. That being said, I have never been on Red Team/Blue Team exercises so I am not sure who has more advantages over the other.
#15162071
JohnRawls wrote:Supply and demand. There is not enough IT specialists produced in Europe and US to cover the need.

That may be a valid argument but it is still quantifiably meaningless (even with that graph).

You can always get more quantity demanded with almost any type of job if you are able to lower the price.

I'll point out, in strict economics terms, your graph doesn't really show demand. That would be a demand curve. What your graph shows is simply quantity (something that's determined by where the supply curve and the demand curve intersect).
The number of IT workers "demanded" is definitely not static. It would go way up or way down if labor costs changed.

Some believe US tech companies are just being cheap and greedy.
#15162081
Politics_Observer wrote:@JohnRawls

Well that's good news for me, because I want to get hired once I earn my graduate degree! :D


You're a citizen, you'll be fine. CS is booming, after all.

Looking at the OP more closely, the complaint is about OPT. But there's an issue there, OPT is a temporary visa that lasts 1-3 years (3 years for STEM grads, 1 for the rest). Once it ends, the recipients need to either get a H1-B (this means either participating in the lottery and being selected - 1M+ apply a year, only 85k or so get the visa - or working for a nonprofit, including universities, which has no caps for obvious reasons), or marry a citizen to get a Green Card and stay. Else, the OPT holder will need to quit or work from outside the US.

And actually, that's another thing: You don't actually need to be in the US to work for an American tech company. So businesses who already use, some of which sometimes abuse, the system can also use this option instead of hiring Americans if there are none available. This is on top of the obvious risks the company takes on by hiring someone on a H1B, particularly hiring the person and yet being unable to have her working because she wasn't selected in the lottery (which either ends in either declaring the search a failure or setting the person to work from abroad), along with the costs of the bureaucracy involved.

The real issue in the end is that there are simply not enough American citizens getting the skills tech wants. And that's not all that surprising, especially for the high-end positions who may require PhD holders in fields like Computer Science, Mathematics, Physics, Engineering or Statistics but also holds for Masters or even undergrads to a much lesser extent (another thing I learned is that many businesses may only be willing to take the risks and costs of hiring someone on OPT/H1-B if he has a PhD. Foreigners with Masters or just undergrad degrees need not apply).
#15162095
Puffer Fish wrote:I argued how that's not true in this thread:

The Effect of Population Growth on the Economy
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=179549


For poor countries it can be a challenge to create employment for their rapidly growing populations, because they lack capital. In the developed world that is not an issue at all however. We have capital in excess and population growth is relatively small despite immigration.

Puffer Fish wrote:The number of IT workers "demanded" is definitely not static. It would go way up or way down if labor costs changed.


But the domestic supply is more or less fixed, hence at some point companies competing for tech workers would only drive up nominal wages/prices. That might be beneficial for tech workers to some extent, but it would decrease real income of everyone else.

That said, if immigration were limited companies would simply increase employment abroad.

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