[Pants-of-dog]

Developing countries are ones where the populous eat bats sold from unsanitary meat markets which create diseases that brings society to its knees.

Developed countries invent the vaccines that cure these diseases.

The USA is currently experiencing a polio outbreak.

In developing countries, there is a lack of rule of law and no guaranteed due process rights. Where's Tank Man?

In developed countries, rule of law is fairly solid, as is due process. The cops will not raid Xi's winter home.

Breonna Taylor. Elijah McClain, and hundreds of other people who died at the hands of the cops would disagree with your claim that the US is a country of laws when it comes to non-whites.

According to that sustainable development ranking, Chile is more developed than Canada and Australia.

I think we can safely discard it.

In many ways, Chile is more developed than many developed countries.

[late]

The USA is currently experiencing a polio outbreak.

Industrial agriculture causes disease outbreaks. If we want to get serious about preventing pandemics, we need to strictly regulate agriculture. We also need to get back to the point where the CDC is pretty much everywhere, looking for disease outbreaks so we can try and stop them before they kill millions.

We also need national healthcare to prevent things like polio from making a comeback.

[wat0n]

@Pants-of-dog would you elaborate?

[Unthinking Majority]

I don't leave China unscathed.

My most recent topic about China was about the UN report on human rights abuse claims on Xinjiang being credible while my most recent post about China was about how awkward it will be for Turkey to join the Shanghai Cooperation Organization given its overt support for Turkestani Uygher activists. Before that was a whole thing with @wat0n about deficiencies inthe Chinese real estate market.

I'm not sitting here jerking off the USA and adopting the party line, sure. My position is simply that China isn't a uniquely evil state; it's not a great threat to Western states or their homeland (just its imperialist hegemony) - it's petty, self-interested, and led by its own fair share of idiots. It's democracy is severely limited and could be improved, for example. It's respect for individual rights or life leaves a lot to be desired. I hate the resurgence of Chinese nationalism and rejection of leadership of the Global South.

At the end of the day, I can't control what of mine you read, or what you retain, as I've explained by position countless times at this point. 1, 2, 3 (this last one to you!).

Uh ok, I guess i'll try to keep an eye out.

You don't want nuance, you want rah rah usa west is the best fuck yes chauvinism and anything less than that bullshit will make me a Chinese propogandist .

That's not true at all. Obviously the USA and West has its share of flaws, but the question comes down to: compared to whom? By almost every metric, the West is statistically "the best". So it should be criticized when criticism is due, but it should also be defended for it's positive aspects. People vote with their feet. We can see the countries people are fleeing for their lives and the countries they are fleeing to. The USA and other developed nations don't create refugees, but they do accept them.

The US loses points for regressing on the human rights of women and denying basic maternal care on the basis of superstition. The UAE loses points for the same reason, mind.

Killing fetuses is the worst natal care that a baby can receive, which is a fact not based on superstition. Healthcare involves saving lives and making people healthier where possible, not the opposite. Killing healthy patients is not healthcare, it's almost akin to plastic surgery. Removing an unwanted flap of skin (that sometimes has a heartbeat).

[Unthinking Majority]

Relax UT, the US is still ahead in these rankings of China and Russia by like 8 places.

https://dashboards.sdgindex.org/rankings

Dude, this list ranks Croatia and Hungary above Canada and Australia. It ranks Cuba, Ukraine, and Serbia above the USA.

I'll stick with the Human Development Index (HDI): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index

USA is 21st, Russia is 52, China is 79. Sounds about right.

[Pants-of-dog]

Uh ok, I guess i'll try to keep an eye out.


That's not true at all. Obviously the USA and West has its share of flaws, but the question comes down to: compared to whom? By almost every metric, the West is statistically "the best". So it should be criticized when criticism is due, but it should also be defended for it's positive aspects. People vote with their feet. We can see the countries people are fleeing for their lives and the countries they are fleeing to. The USA and other developed nations don't create refugees, but they do accept them.

The US, when compared to other western countries, is performing at a level similar to less developed western countries.

And yes, western countries create refugees. Ukraine, for one. There are currently many Ukrainian refugees here where I live. Because another western country invaded theirs.

Killing fetuses is the worst natal care that a baby can receive, which is a fact not based on superstition. Healthcare involves saving lives and making people healthier where possible, not the opposite. Killing healthy patients is not healthcare, it's almost akin to plastic surgery. Removing an unwanted flap of skin (that sometimes has a heartbeat).

Your feels about abortion are not relevant.

It is a fact that the US does a much poorer job of recognizing body autonomy and personal sovereignty.

What you are doing here is merely justifying why such a disregard for rights is supposedly necessary.

[Unthinking Majority]

The USA is currently experiencing a polio outbreak.

Hey, I never said some Americans aren't morons.

Breonna Taylor. Elijah McClain, and hundreds of other people who died at the hands of the cops would disagree with your claim that the US is a country of laws when it comes to non-whites.

Well that's why i said the rule of law was "fairly strong". There is no country with perfect rule of law. Compared to Chile, the rule of law in the US is quite good.

The US is also less racist than Chile. The way that Chile treats its indigenous, blacks, Muslims, and neighbours like Peruvians, Bolivians etc is not exactly peachy. I suspect the cops in Chile are much worse than in the US. I'm sure Chileans would invite Syrian and Sudanese refugees with open arms. Canada sure does, but we'll leave most of the Canada-defending to @Godstud while you spit on your Queen's grave.

In fact, I doubt there's any Latin American country that is less racist than the US.

In many ways, Chile is more developed than many developed countries.

You voted with your feet.

[Unthinking Majority]

The US, when compared to other western countries, is performing at a level similar to less developed western countries.

In a few ways yes, in most ways no.

And yes, western countries create refugees. Ukraine, for one. There are currently many Ukrainian refugees here where I live. Because another western country invaded theirs.

I didn't say western countries don't create refugees, I specifically said "developed nations". Ukraine and other post-communist states are not developed, because they followed the economic ideology that you believe in and still, for some reason, espouse.

Your feels about abortion are not relevant.

It is a fact that the US does a much poorer job of recognizing body autonomy and personal sovereignty.

What you are doing here is merely justifying why such a disregard for rights is supposedly necessary.

Killing healthy babies in utero is not what I would consider "human development", this is an ideological categorization, not one based on health. Let's go with infant and maternal health. If the US denies abortions to sick pregnant mothers, which I imagine some states are trying to do, then we can count that against it, while recognizing that fewer healthy babies are also being killed.

[late]

Killing fetuses is the worst natal care that a baby can receive, which is a fact not based on superstition.

It's a lie, not a fact.

If you don't know why, you have no business discussing a topic about which you are ignorant.

[Unthinking Majority]

It's a lie, not a fact.

If you don't know why, you have no business discussing a topic about which you are ignorant.

Ok you're right, killing a healthy fetus is great natal care for the baby.

[late]

Ok you're right, killing a healthy fetus is great natal care for the baby.

A fetus is not a baby.

On top of that bit of idiocy, that's dodging the complicated nexus of rights and responsibilities relating to pregnancy.

It's sleazy.

[Unthinking Majority]

A fetus is not a baby.

"I'm pregnant with Steven's fetus!"
"What's the sex of the fetus, doctor?"
"Are you coming to my fetus shower?"
"I can feel the fetus kicking in my stomach"
"How are you and the fetus doing?"
"How far along is the fetus?"

[Pants-of-dog]

Hey, I never said some Americans aren't morons.

Well that's why i said the rule of law was "fairly strong". There is no country with perfect rule of law. Compared to Chile, the rule of law in the US is quite good.

The US is also less racist than Chile. The way that Chile treats its indigenous, blacks, Muslims, and neighbours like Peruvians, Bolivians etc is not exactly peachy. I suspect the cops in Chile are much worse than in the US. I'm sure Chileans would invite Syrian and Sudanese refugees with open arms. Canada sure does, but we'll leave most of the Canada-defending to @Godstud while you spit on your Queen's grave.

In fact, I doubt there's any Latin American country that is less racist than the US.

Not really, no.

Racism in Chile is based on three things: colonialism, the class system, and xenophobia.

So while Indigenous people in both countries deal with similar racism, blacks in Chile do not deal with the legacy of slavery, Jim Crow laws, et cetera. Instead, they deal with the racism that new immigrants deal with, as new immigrants do in the USA as well.

You voted with your feet.

The reason most Chileans left Chile has nothing to do with levels of development.

In a few ways yes, in most ways no.

Looking at things like access to health care, literacy rates, infant mortality, economic inequality, maternal mortality rates, we see that the USA is more like Chile and Costa Rica than France or Germany.

I didn't say western countries don't create refugees, I specifically said "developed nations". Ukraine and other post-communist states are not developed, because they followed the economic ideology that you believe in and still, for some reason, espouse.

You were unclear. You started your paragraph discussing western nations, and switched to developed countries at the end.

And the USA and other developed countries do create refugees. For example, the Iraqi refugees fleeing US wars.

Killing healthy babies in utero is not what I would consider "human development", this is an ideological categorization, not one based on health. Let's go with infant and maternal health. If the US denies abortions to sick pregnant mothers, which I imagine some states are trying to do, then we can count that against it, while recognizing that fewer healthy babies are also being killed.

This does not address my point: the US is less developed when it comes to personal integrity and body autonomy rights than other countries.

This is true even if you feel it is justified.

[late]

"I'm pregnant with Steven's fetus!"
"What's the sex of the fetus, doctor?"
"Are you coming to my fetus shower?"
"I can feel the fetus kicking in my stomach"
"How are you and the fetus doing?"
"How far along is the fetus?"

Like I said, sleazy.

[Unthinking Majority]

Like I said, sleazy.

People with boners are getting women pregnant because they want to cum inside them and are then killing the babies that result, and I'm the one who is sleazy? Lol.

Show me an orgasm that's worth killing a baby. Sleazy.

[Unthinking Majority]

Not really, no.

Racism in Chile is based on three things: colonialism, the class system, and xenophobia.

So while Indigenous people in both countries deal with similar racism, blacks in Chile do not deal with the legacy of slavery, Jim Crow laws, et cetera. Instead, they deal with the racism that new immigrants deal with, as new immigrants do in the USA as well.

The reasons for racism aren't relevant toward development. Racism is racism, and all societies suffer from it, some more than others.

The reason most Chileans left Chile has nothing to do with levels of development.

Of course it does.

Looking at things like access to health care, literacy rates, infant mortality, economic inequality, maternal mortality rates, we see that the USA is more like Chile and Costa Rica than France or Germany.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Dev ... 022_report)

And the USA and other developed countries do create refugees. For example, the Iraqi refugees fleeing US wars.

Any country regardless of development will create refugees if they attack another country, regardless of reason. What I meant is that the US doesn't cause its own citizens to flee the US because of lack of due process or people being persecuted by the government because of whatever group they belong to.

This does not address my point: the US is less developed when it comes to personal integrity and body autonomy rights than other countries.

No, the US has fewer reproductive rights, but more human rights for prenatal children.

[late]

baby

Lying has been quite popular, these last 4 years.

But it still seems egregiously sleazy to me.

[wat0n]

Why is this thread about abortion now? When it comes to reproductive rights, the ranking refers to the US circa 2019.

[Unthinking Majority]

Lying has been quite popular, these last 4 years.

But it still seems egregiously sleazy to me.

If you call someone a liar you better know what you're talking about.

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/ ... s-in-utero

Fetus. An unborn baby from the 8th week after fertilization until birth.

https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/baby

baby (bā′bē)
n. pl. ba·bies
a. A very young child; an infant.
b. An unborn child; a fetus.
c. The youngest member of a family or group.
d. A very young animal.
ba′by·hood′ n.
ba′by·ish adj.
The American Heritage® Medical Dictionary Copyright © 2007, 2004 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

[late]

If you call someone a liar you better know what you're talking about.

"(c) Fetus means the product of conception from implantation until delivery.

(d) Neonate means a newborn.

(e) Nonviable neonate means a neonate after delivery that, although living, is not viable.

(f) Pregnancy encompasses the period of time from implantation until delivery."

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/45/46.202

The problem, as always, is religion. But because American law has to be secular, we wind up doing damn dumb dances around the obvious.