[Rich]

NATO has the strongest unity is has had since the Cold War.

NATO is at its weakest point since the Cold War, with Erdogan openly demanding that NATO counties submit themselves to the dominance of the international Muslim terror machine. The craven hypocrisy of the Western Liberals just beggars belief. A Christian Orthodox country seeks to expand their territory, horror, horror, this is the end of the world. This is Hitler, This is this Nazis all over again. Muslim Turkey remains in occupation of northern Cyprus, oh no problem you just carry on.

Erdogan takes his terror machine into Kurdish Syria, again no problem. What if Erdogan decides he need to genocide the Kurds, the way they genocided the Armenians and the Greeks. Maybe Joe Biden should send him some F35s or more F16s so he can finish the job.

[late]

NATO is at its weakest point since the Cold War

with Erdogan openly demanding that NATO counties submit themselves to the dominance of the international Muslim terror machine.

A Christian Orthodox country seeks to expand their territory, horror, horror, this is the end of the world.

This is Hitler, This is this Nazis all over again. Muslim Turkey remains in occupation of northern Cyprus, oh no problem you just carry on.

Erdogan takes his terror machine into Kurdish Syria, again no problem.

What if Erdogan decides he need to genocide the Kurds, the way they genocided the Armenians and the Greeks. Maybe Joe Biden should send him some F35s or more F16s so he can finish the job.

NATO has faced crisis before that actually did threaten to tear it apart. The most recent was Trump, of course. Oh, lying won't help you...

It's not just Erdogan, it's also the Hungarian guy, Orban. This has to do with Putin, not Muslims. Erdogan has long been playing both Russia and the West. Orban seems to be playing the same game now. It's an extreme option, but the day could come when we need to kick Turkey out of NATO, and offer Orban a choice. Or maybe vice versa..

People that understand this have figured out Putin could wind up starting WW3. So sure, horror is the correct word.

Putin is a dictator, like Hitler. He keeps invading other countries, just like Hitler...

Syria is a big problem, but it's a problem without a good answer.

The thing you are missing is reality. Turkey has a couple million refugees, that's an enormous strain on a country. Yes, he's an asshole, but like Syria, our options are limited. One of the things I have been advocating is that we spend a billion or two providing food and medicine for the refugees in Turkey. Turkey has a legitimate complaint that we offered them full membership, but never delivered. You won't like it, but an alliance is based on mutual interests, and we have neglected the interests of Turkey.

[Beren]

it's also the Hungarian guy, Orban.

Orbán doesn't mean a threat to NATO whatsoever. He may mess with the EU, but he respects the might of the US.

[Rancid]

I think Zeihan has interesting insights, but I feel like he has this weird thesis that nations today still view the world in 1700s terms.

Example, he keeps saying how Russia wants to "plug the gaps" that the Russian empire was trying to plug. This means, they would have to conquer Poland as well. Do modern day Russians really care about this? Once all of these old school Russian morons die, is that outlook still present in the Russian mind?

[Potemkin]

I think Zeihan has interesting insights, but I feel like he has this weird thesis that nations today still view the world in 1700s terms.

Example, he keeps saying how Russia wants to "plug the gaps" that the Russian empire was trying to plug. This means, they would have to conquer Poland as well. Do modern day Russians really care about this? Once all of these old school Russian morons die, is that outlook still present in the Russian mind?

Yes. Russia looks like a behemoth on a map, but that massive territorial expansion was motivated not by greed or ambition, but by fear. Fear of the Mongols, fear of the Teutonic Knights, fear of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, fear of the Ottoman Empire, fear of, fear of, fear of…. Russia is vast, but it is also vulnerable. Russia’s rulers, whether Tsarist or Soviet or kleptocratic have always been motivated by fear of that vulnerability. They still are. They still will be a thousand years from now, if Russia still exists by then. Putin’s invasion of Ukraine was motivated by that same millennial fear.

[XogGyux]

I think Zeihan has interesting insights, but I feel like he has this weird thesis that nations today still view the world in 1700s terms.

Example, he keeps saying how Russia wants to "plug the gaps" that the Russian empire was trying to plug. This means, they would have to conquer Poland as well. Do modern day Russians really care about this? Once all of these old school Russian morons die, is that outlook still present in the Russian mind?

Well, ultimately what matter is not really what is true, but rather what people believe to be true. If Putin believes that... then he will act upon that belief. If Putin believe the moon is made out of cheese, he might send an astronaut (I mean cosmonauts ) with bread over there thinking the cheese will make for nice bread-and-cheese sandwich.
I find the idea that if your major concern is safety... invading another nation at the same time that your major geopolitical adversary is becoming weaker (NATO, multiple head of states criticizing and even questioning its existence, less spending by country, etc), sparking a conflict next to that power, is stupid. So i don't truly think the motivation was defensive in nature (and so goes his theory of plugging the holes). On the other hand, he has made some reasonable accurate predictions so I'll take him with seriousness. Zheihan is very dramatic i find, I have read a couple of his books... he throws areound terms like "collapse", "end of this nation or that nation", etc when refering to china, russia, germany, UK... he is very loose and exhagerated I think. But I interpret it as "disfavorable" for nation X or Y rather than "collapse" and attribute it to some dramatic flare to sell more books

[ness31]

I'm not watching Joe Rogan. I don't care what the stoner gym bro has to say or what his guests have to say, his show sucks and it's for morons.

I used to listen to Rogan and he's just a complete fucking moron. He would get his guests to watch 90 minutes of old boxing matches completely forgetting that his show is a podcast and then be like,

"Whoa, you see how he threw that punch? That's how a gorilla would punch. Gorillas. Wow. Nature. Nature is so cool. Young Jamie, put on that video of the Gorilla that got loose in the NICU unit, gorillas are crazy. You gotta see how this gorilla stomps this preemie. Wow. Nature. Wow. Gorillas. Do you think if a gorilla smoked enough DMT it could learn English? Do you think it would be my friend? I go bow hunting, which is the way men hunt."

Lol, shut up. Rogan has done more for the democratization of information than any tech media platform to date. 1 guy reminded everyone it’s okay to have long conversations about important stuff. He’s a fucking legend.

And I don’t really care if that doesn’t align with what the cool kids think.

[Rancid]

Yes. Russia looks like a behemoth on a map, but that massive territorial expansion was motivated not by greed or ambition, but by fear. Fear of the Mongols, fear of the Teutonic Knights, fear of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, fear of the Ottoman Empire, fear of, fear of, fear of…. Russia is vast, but it is also vulnerable. Russia’s rulers, whether Tsarist or Soviet or kleptocratic have always been motivated by fear of that vulnerability. They still are. They still will be a thousand years from now, if Russia still exists by then. Putin’s invasion of Ukraine was motivated by that same millennial fear.

Sure, but do Russian 30-somethings & 40-somethings that basically group up outside of the USSR feel this same fear? Is it that ingrained in the culture?

[late]

Sure, but do Russian 30-somethings & 40-somethings that basically group up outside of the USSR feel this same fear? Is it that ingrained in the culture?

It's an authoritarian culture, if it's not a Tsar, it's a dictator like Putin or Stalin.

It's not like here, bitching can get you a long vacation in Siberia, or worse.