[Politics_Observer]

@Pants-of-dog

I disagree. The Defund the Police rhetoric is an extreme position to take. Obviously, you need well-trained police officers to ensure public order and enforce the law in a trained, professional manner. In their absence, we see a rise in vigilantism, which is simply another form of lawlessness. Only well-trained, professional police and people properly educated in the law and human rights, can ensure the proper administration of the law.

That being said, enforcing the law and properly funding the police is only one part of the solution to preventing crime. It is also necessary to fight poverty too in order to prevent crime. Also have adequate funding for mental health services. Regardless, you still need professional policing to ensure the enforcement of laws and accountability in a manner that is consistent with the spirit of the law and respects human rights.

[Pants-of-dog]

@Politics_Observer

Perhaps.

But Rutland itself is not an example of this.

https://www.rutlandherald.com/news/loca ... af730.html

If you’ve ever felt like there’s never a police officer around when you need one, the Rutland City Police Department is right there with you.

More than one quarter of the positions at the department are vacant — a problem that has been growing for so long that Mayor David Allaire said this week he was cutting funding for seven positions in the department because there was no way they would be filled in the coming budget year.

Understaffing in the police department has been a part of every budget discussion in the city since 2013, with members of the Board of Aldermen questioning whether vacant positions needed to be funded until they were filled. The staffing gap has widened dramatically in the last few years and more so in the last few months, going from eight vacancies during the summer to 13 when the mayor unveiled his budget this week.

….

Penny Shtull, a professor of criminology and criminal justice at Norwich University (and Margolis’ wife) said police recruiting has become significantly more challenging in the last five to 10 years, but that the reasons are significantly more complex than narratives about anti-police sentiment — though she listed it as a factor alongside pay differentials and “generational work preferences.” The latter, she said, is affecting law enforcement similarly to other fields.

“Younger generations are more concerned with work-life balance,” she said. “They don’t want to do shift work. They’re more likely to pick a job based on lifestyle choices. Police work is very challenging on lifestyle and families.”

Beyond that, Shtull said the job has changed, and departments are looking for more leadership skills and cultural sensitivity than they once did, but the applicant pool has not necessarily changed to match.

….

So, while Burlington seems to have its policing deficit caused by the defund the police movement, Rutland seems to have more complex problems.

[wat0n]

I don't know if Rutland reduced its police force recently but what that article does show is that some people are indeed willing to take matters on their own hands if they believe they may need to do so.

That is very much in line with what we saw in 2020 - when several people organized, in many cities, what they saw as the collective defense of their neighborhoods against potential looting, with the use of far more dangerous force at that -, and other instances of a general breakdown of law and order (e.g. rooftop Koreans).

Enforcing laws against vigilantism, like most laws, does require having a competent and large enough police force. And if that exists, there are also far less reasons, or excuses, for that type of thing anyway.

[Pants-of-dog]

If the argument is that Burlington is experiencing a breakdown in order that is comparable to the riots of 2020, please note that none of the evidence suggests anything remotely like that.

At most, we see a heightened sense of unease as homeless people take advantage of the low cop presence.

[wat0n]

No, I don't think Burlington is experiencing that type of breakdown in law and order. But the precedent does show there are those who are willing to organize themselves and take matters on their own hand if they believe they're on their own.

I share @Politics_Observer's concern about what happens if an alleged criminal uses deadly force to prevent a bunch of civilians from arresting him, be it because he's an actual criminal aiming to commit a crime or an innocent person simply defending himself.

[Pants-of-dog]

Please note that in the example given by @Politics_Observer , the “criminal” did not try to hurt anyone, nor did he press charges against the people who violently attacked him.

[wat0n]

No one said he did. But it may end up happening down the road, eventually.

Specially if they do that to an innocent person.

[Tainari88]

There is a lot of work to be done between the police and a lot of Black and Latino communities in the USA. Many Black communities and Latino communities in the USA just don't trust the police. That is reality.

To build trust between the police and the communities they serve? It is necessary to do a lot of social work type of things. All you need to do is pick up your phone @Politics_Observer and ask your local cops in your neighborhood and in Atlanta, Augusta, etc Georgia what actions they need to take to make the relationship better. They all say the stuff I mentioned. It is not something I invented. I had to deal with police departments all the time. I used to be a probation officer a long time ago.

I quit that job because the accountability was not there, it only favored a system of making money off of desperate people. It was not there to help them reintegrate into society. The lack of justice in that system runs very deep.

Mexico has to adapt to widespread poverty. They can't enforce laws on people with zero leftover money to pay fines and stuff. When people are barely housed and barely scraping by? Constantly making them pay more in fines is like asking for blood from a stone. The system of inequality has deep consequences for all human societies. The rich think they can live in gated communities far from the crime, the chaos, and the problems. The poor grow increasingly incensed and frustrated by their lack of opportunities and ability to climb out of the financial and emotional holes they are in....sensible policing is about creating accountability true, but it is also about diffusing tension in an explosive environment. Many cops in the USA go through their 25 years of service without drawing their guns or weapons once. Many of them never shoot anyone and never will be shooting anyone. The bulk of the job is to keep people safe, help in emergencies, and cite people to go to court. If they take people to jail it is part of a routine thing. Rarely do they shoot someone they put in handcuffs.

You do have cops who enjoy being in authority and those cops are kind of bad apples. If they only want to lord it over people and do not have authority born out of a concern for the resolution of law enforcement principles they become like those Louisiana cops who murder people and then lie about how they died. They become the worst of the worst.

Probation should be about behavioral changes in the offender. Not in making it so difficult for them to have a normal life that they no longer have hope in their own futures and wind up without any ability to work normal jobs, pay normal rent, and have a normal family life. They just say, fuck it, I got nothing to lose, let me go all into crime.

[Pants-of-dog]

It would be interesting to see how Burlington is doing with cop violence, especially violence directed towards BIPOC and people with mental health issues.

If this place can reduce said violence, reduce the cop budget, and not have an increase in violent crime, then it seems like it is not so bad.

[late]

It would be interesting to see how Burlington is doing with cop violence, especially violence directed towards BIPOC and people with mental health issues.

If this place can reduce said violence, reduce the cop budget, and not have an increase in violent crime, then it seems like it is not so bad.

Burlington is a mess.

The mayor wants to do Right wing things, Burlington has active Progressives and they want to do Progressive things, and so far, I am not seeing any compromise in the news.

[Unthinking Majority]

Following a vague slogan like "Defunding the police" by slashing police budgets is not an adequate solution for police abuse of power and lack of accountability.

Communities need to build trust between police and citizens, and you do that with having a lot more oversight and accountability so that officers who do abuse their power are dealt with so that citizens know these schmuck aren't riding around their cities with impunity, and their legit complaints will be taken seriously.

[Pants-of-dog]

Following a vague slogan like "Defunding the police" by slashing police budgets is not an adequate solution for police abuse of power and lack of accountability.

Communities need to build trust between police and citizens, and you do that with having a lot more oversight and accountability so that officers who do abuse their power are dealt with so that citizens know these schmuck aren't riding around their cities with impunity, and their legit complaints will be taken seriously.

This seems possible, but would require some real world verification.

This would also require spending even more money on cops with little assurance that ti will actually protect anyone.

The cops that beat Mr. Nichols to death had lots mote oversight. They did not save Tyre Nichols.

[Politics_Observer]

@Pants-of-dog @Tainari88

Well, it seems the American people are not happy with how crime is currently. Biden refused to veto a DC crime law because he doesn't want to be seen as "soft on crime" going into the election in 2024.

The Senate this week passed a Republican-led resolution to overturn a Washington, DC, crime law, which critics have argued is soft on violent criminals.

Almost two-thirds of Senate Democrats backed the measure after President Joe Biden announced an about-face by saying he wouldn’t veto the legislation to nullify that law. His move came after a majority of House Democrats had opposed the same measure in their chamber, and Biden’s decision angered many of them, including vulnerable members who opposed the bill believing the president was going to veto it.

So just what was Biden thinking? Why would he leave members of his own party out to dry?

A look at the political terrain and certain crime statistics indicate that Biden probably felt boxed in and didn’t want to be seen as soft on crime heading into the 2024 presidential election.

Let’s start with the political reality of the situation: Americans don’t like where the country is when it comes to efforts to reduce crime.

A Gallup poll taken at the beginning of this year revealed that 70% of adults were dissatisfied with the nation’s efforts to reduce or control crime. This marked only the second time this century in which at least 70% of Americans registered dissatisfaction on this metric.

The dissatisfaction crosses party lines and includes a majority of Democrats (65%), independents (68%) and Republicans (82%).

https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/11/politics ... index.html

[Tainari88]

@Pants-of-dog @Tainari88

Well, it seems the American people are not happy with how crime is currently. Biden refused to veto a DC crime law because he doesn't want to be seen as "soft on crime" going into the election in 2024.



https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/11/politics ... index.html

I remember a website on comparing city-to-city crime stats. It is interesting. Denver and Chicago definitely have more crime per capita than many cities in Europe and many cities in Canada and the city as well that I live in. This city is safe regarding gun violence, shootings, murders, and violent crimes. It is not as safe as many other cities for petty property crimes. That means stolen bikes, stolen stuff, and people conning people to get money out of them. So you got to break crime down to what kinds of crimes the city is having issues with.

[Politics_Observer]

@Tainari88

I think one thing you will agree with me on is the fact that the United States has a serious gun violence problem. There needs to be more strict regulation on who is allowed to own a firearm. Nobody should be allowed to own a firearm without a permit, and they must have either a sporting reason such as hunting or a good reason like the mafia put a contract out on their life.

Therefore, I favor heavy regulation of firearms in the United States to ensure public safety. We have had way too many school shootings or shootings at grocery stores, such as what happened in Buffalo, New York or in El Paso, Texas. Body armor should also be outlawed. Extended magazines should be outlawed along with AR-15s.

Basically, the only people who should own a pistol are those who can prove their life is in serious danger from organized crime. Those who wish to hunt can own a shotgun or rifle and be required to keep them under lock and key and use them only for purposes of sport. Such heavy regulation is necessary to prevent gun violence and ensure the safety of children while they attend school. Those who own firearms should be required to carry liability insurance and take firearms safety courses as well as some basic courses on the law in regard to when the law permits the use of lethal force if they are carrying for a legitimate self-defense purpose that is permitted.

You also hit on rehabilitation. I agree with you. We need expanded mental health services and ensure people are rehabilitated after serving their punishment for a crime they committed to ensure they can get jobs. This reduces the rate of recidivism and reduces the burden taxpayers have to pay in the long term. However, you and I also know there are special interests at play in the justice system who only care about money and would seek to oppose such ideas that would prove beneficial to the public.

[SpecialOlympian]

Here is my opinion on the subject:

America's Sheriff Joe Arpaio is not receiving enough used tanks from our armed forces, and he needs our money and support more than ever. Please write to your senator to ask them to send more old tanks and armored vehicles to your local police department

As the forefront on fighting illegal immigration, which is so rampant it has reached Arizona which is a state that has no borders with Mexico, Sheriff Joe needs your help more than ever. Click here to donate to his Hatreon. Patreon is too woke so he uses Hatreon, a real website.

[SpecialOlympian]

My only complaint about the militarization of our police, who I wholeheartedly support through the many bumper stickers on my Hummer, is that when they drive an APC down our streets they ruin the cobblestone which was lovingly laid down by the founding fathers of my town, Slavery, South Carolina.

We don't like to talk about our history outside of well curated discussions because we don't want to upset our children, who we love more than anything and do not want to feel like they are less able to succeed because they are white.

[SpecialOlympian]

It has just been brought to my attention that Arizona shares a border with Mexico. I am formally requesting that Steven Seagal, reincarnated holy venerate Lama Chungdrag Dorje, actor, writer, director, and recipient of the Russian Order of Friendship PLEASE resume operating as a deputy in the Maricopa Sheriff's department. Only an Aikido master such as Lama Seagal can help us police our borders and keep America safe.

[Politics_Observer]

@SpecialOlympian @Tainari88 @Unthinking Majority

Burlington, Vermont however, is not the South. So, what kind of role has the police played in the South? Let's take a look at Mississippi! I do agree with the author of this opinion piece that ALL states, especially in the South, need to have Federal oversight to ensure that black communities have fair representation in government and are not being discriminated against. I certainly see this pattern in many Southern states, especially in Mississippi.

Headlines this week trumpeted the infuriating news that the state of Texas was planning a takeover of the Houston Independent School District, one of the largest and most diverse school populations in the nation, where 90% of students are Black and brown.

State education officials in Austin plan to name a new board to run schools in the district, usurping the authority of local authorities. The move ostensibly is meant to address lagging academic achievement in a school district that has seen a substantial decline in the number of failing schools in recent years.

The takeover is a playbook that is all too familiar to residents of my city of Jackson – Mississippi’s majority Black capital city – which has been battling the hostile takeover of aspects of its local governance for years.

The racist undertones of what’s happening – in Jackson, in Houston and elsewhere around the country – are undeniable and unacceptable. Mississippi’s White leadership – in a state which has the highest percentage of Black citizens in the nation – does whatever it can to ensure that its Black population remains second class citizens.

Last month, the Mississippi House reestablished a racist precedent from a seemingly bygone era with the passage of HB 1020. The intent behind this legislation was to create a separate, unelected court system and expanded police force on the people who live in Jackson.

Republicans’ overwhelming majorities in Mississippi’s state legislature give them the ability to ram through racist legislation against which Democrats – who represent a majority of Black Mississippians – have no recourse. It’s the opposite of what democracy is supposed to be about.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/17/opinions ... index.html

[Tainari88]

@Tainari88

I think one thing you will agree with me on is the fact that the United States has a serious gun violence problem. There needs to be more strict regulation on who is allowed to own a firearm. Nobody should be allowed to own a firearm without a permit, and they must have either a sporting reason such as hunting or a good reason like the mafia put a contract out on their life.

Therefore, I favor heavy regulation of firearms in the United States to ensure public safety. We have had way too many school shootings or shootings at grocery stores, such as what happened in Buffalo, New York or in El Paso, Texas. Body armor should also be outlawed. Extended magazines should be outlawed along with AR-15s.

Basically, the only people who should own a pistol are those who can prove their life is in serious danger from organized crime. Those who wish to hunt can own a shotgun or rifle and be required to keep them under lock and key and use them only for purposes of sport. Such heavy regulation is necessary to prevent gun violence and ensure the safety of children while they attend school. Those who own firearms should be required to carry liability insurance and take firearms safety courses as well as some basic courses on the law in regard to when the law permits the use of lethal force if they are carrying for a legitimate self-defense purpose that is permitted.

You also hit on rehabilitation. I agree with you. We need expanded mental health services and ensure people are rehabilitated after serving their punishment for a crime they committed to ensure they can get jobs. This reduces the rate of recidivism and reduces the burden taxpayers have to pay in the long term. However, you and I also know there are special interests at play in the justice system who only care about money and would seek to oppose such ideas that would prove beneficial to the public.

I am strange with guns Politics. My maternal Aunt was really good at marxsmanship and shooting. She is a vegetarian and also good at judo and hitting and hurting (she was a black belt judo person for years). She likes guns. She likes smoking pot and is anti male super macho style lesbian too. She has never liked men in any way. She is a good Aunt. But I hate guns. One day she kept pestering me to go with her to a gun range and shoot. She gave me her .38 to shoot at the target. I had those muffs to not be freaked out with the loudness. I fired two shots....HATED IT. I hate guns. She according to the gun range man who tests shooting told me, 'your Aunt is a crack shot. Best shot I have seen in years.' It does not surprise me. Lol. I did not like the way it felt. The reverbation I did not like at all either. It feels bad to me. Dangerous and just wrong. She loves that feeling and loves how accurate she is with it.

I live in Mexico. It is illegal to own a gun in Mexico without a permit or permission. If you are a civilian. You only have one gun shop in the entire country of 130 million Mexicans. It is in Mexico City and it is strict and it is for hunting purposes and more or less has to follow the rules you talked about Politics. But, the ones who have illegal guns in Mexico are the Narco traffic people and those Narcs all buy guns illegal from the USA Politics. All of the Narcs get their guns for their bloody work over here in Mexico from United States arms dealers. The USA has the most arms dealers and arms sales for military and civilian use in the entire world. It is a big problem.

Puerto Rico has very strict gun laws too. But again they get smuggled in for drug dealers through the USA. The USA has serious issues with not following true controls. Mainly due to profit motivations. The NRA is one of the most well funded and well organized lobby groups in Washington DC. In a non profit I worked for we studied the best organized lobbying organization in the entire world and in the USA. The NRA is one of them. They have a lot of very wealthy donors and supporters and they also have a lot of political pull due to their influences with both the Republican party and the Democratic party. Americans as a culture are off the charts with gun support. I think to change that is going to be extremely difficult.

Puerto Rican gun issues: