[late]

@Rich is ignorant about interracial marriage being illegal in the USA until 1964 and 1965 in a bunch of states.

He also does not understand that in French, Spanish, and Portuguese slavery codes you could not legally get a slave woman of a different race than the French, Spanish, or Portuguese slave owner and get her pregnant and your own flesh and blood children be enslaved by law. The Spanish French and Portuguese owners were forbidden to do that. They had to baptize the babies. And give them recognition and raise them Roman Catholic. In Protestant Anglo colonialism and slavery, your kids are enslaved forever. Thomas Jefferson had slaves with his face serving dinner at Monticello.

He is ignorant about it. He has no clue about jack shit related to how bad racism is and can be easily reversed in these societies by the foolish class-based mentality of people in power.

If you want @Rich you and I can go at it in a slavery history thread for weeks. I studied it all for years. You have a serious lack of knowledge about it.

One of the wild hypocrisies with Judge Thomas is that he is against most modern jurisprudence. But, having a white wife, he has not objected to Loving v Virginia.

The 'original intent' could not be clearer...

[Tainari88]

One of the wild hypocrisies with Judge Thomas is that he is against most modern jurisprudence. But, having a white wife, he has not objected to Loving v Virginia.

The 'original intent' could not be clearer...

Interestingly, but working class people who grow up in the same working class neighborhoods tend to intermarry each other a lot more commonly, than some middle class or upper class people do. The middle class and upwards tend to follow class apartheid a lot more closely. If you study how Bacon's rebellion happened? It was about the landed gentry being scared that the indentured European background servants and the African slave servants were intermingling and did side by side jobs. Eventually they united in their common interests and created problems for the ruling elite.

So they had to create artificial separation based on things like skin color, hair texture, national origins.

In reality, most people in the world if they interact long enough peacefully will mingle, marry and create new families. There was a tribe of people in Spain called the Iberos or Iberians. And another called the Celts. Celtos in Spanish. With constant social contact, they were intermarrying a lot. It created a new culture. Los celtíberos. The Celtiberians. There are a lot of stories like that.

@Rich aquí tienes. Here you are a clip from the trailer of the original movie. It dealt with a real couple who got married and had the cops busting down their door to arrest the husband and wife for daring to get married when the law said marrying someone of a different race was illegal. That never existed in the UK because they banned slavery early on. It was a problematic thing for class relationships based on the haves and the have-nots. They were right. A lot of British English white people of working-class origins wind up marrying Black immigrants from Jamaica, Belize, India, Pakistan, Hong Kong, and the list goes on endlessly. The ones most stuck on apartheid from the newcomers are people with ambitions of social status. Middle-class people and up. Lol. I think the British upper crust would marry for money more than racism. If they got in trouble with the bailiffs who would be taking their inherited wealth away, they might marry some person who was not white but had some dough to bail them out from their troubles. Making laws banning interracial marriage is an issue. Lol. It might be disheartening. For the greed factor aspect of class-conscious crap that the English class-based discriminators want to perpetuate.

The myth that humanity is pure of race, religion, or roots and that somehow purity of separation is something normal and always expected is all false. Humanity thrives on diversity. Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow. It will continue to gain by intermixing and intermingling. We spy on each other's societies and we learn from each other, imitate each other, adopt each other's customs and inventions, admire each other, hate each other, love each other, and constantly want to know more about what is human about us. A common curiosity.

All great cities were works of diversity for the most part. The many interacting. Okra is West African in origin. So are yams and dasheen, and many other foods known as Southern. They are West African.

Bananas are Asian. Potatoes are from South America. Turkeys, chocolate, tomatoes and avocadoes are Mexican. Oranges, lemons, limes and wheat are Asian and Middle Eastern, etc. Nothing is pure. It is about interaction.

We benefit from racially mixed groups. There is diversity within a single people. There is diversity within groups that have widely miscegenated. They are full of mixtures. Of everything. Thoughts, customs, traditions and ideas, ethnic groups, and cultural modes of thinking. Borrowing and interacting. The USA is a hodge podge of cultures. It has not prevented it from gaining a lot of worldwide power. It draws on that constant ebb and flow of immigrant newcomers, and a radical leftist leaning constitution that repudiated the English monarchy long ago.

I think Rich really should realize that interactions are normal among many groups. What he resents are the aspects of liberal thinking that is full of holes in their ideals. Claiming to be able to deliver on justice that never materializes. He thinks what? A traditional society with purity of what? Will restore that old system that was less problematic?

You can't go back in time. Each system becomes dominant for a historical reason. The defects of that system becomes apparent. It survives its utility....it then becomes part of the greater whole. The tendency of international globalist capitalism is about removing racist codes in order to encompass more and more of the world in order to sell to them, shape their consumption patterns, expand and profit. So they are not really interested in a return to nationalistic or racially based codes from the past. It gets in their way.

What needs to be realized is that the issue is about class based systems. That categorize all human societies into that underclass, working class, lower middle class, middle class, upper middle class, ruling class and elite class categories. Of all ethnic groups, races and cultures. And as such? It pits one groups' interest against another. It wastes resources and it creates built in obsolescence. Things, objects and products built not to last a long time, but to be summarily discarded and replaced with a newer model to encourage constant consumption and inconformity with markets.

It wastes, it is counterproductive.

All that conflict is not good in the long term. Especially in a nuclear arms age.

But, if the racist and nationalistic want the ideal Super Human or perfect purity? They will find history to be their enemy. Nothing really is about just one group dominating every creative idea. It relies on diversity to move forward. You remove diversity? You wind up losing.

Even the Hitler car...the Volkswagen beetle car....was first invented by a Jewish Engineer of German descent. Ganz. They created a documentary on Netflix about it. Hitler claimed credit. A Jew invented the People's car. Ford hated Jews. Ford was the first to create a mass market for automobiles. Germany was behind. A mass created vehicle like the VW Beetle? Was the answer to European lack of a product for the masses in the auto industry. Why a Jew had to be the man behind the car? When the theory was that it was German superiority that was the best at it all?

Nothing pure. A Jew is behind the brilliance of a lightweight car. A Black man might be behind the invention of the Cotton Gin Machine. An Arab might be behind this or that invention. A Chinese man behind gun powder or paper. A Native American behind a critical piece of American innovation. The list is endless of the diversity serving human life. But? The Purity folks @late are stuck on theories that are useless and unscientific.

Simply because again for me the Right is RETROGRADE. Stuck on the past. Stuck on fear. Stuck on wanting change to be either slowed or halted. It is scary. Sharing power with the ones who should be always on the margins of society. Not acceptable. Servile. Not superior. That entire fucking idea of limiting human potential is what is problematic. It is about failure to understand that no one has a copyright on genius and never will. It is about human qualities. Not about nationalism. Or colonialism. Or Imperial bullshit thinking. It is about let humans become the best versions of themselves. Do not force them to sacrifice their own opportunities in the world because only the ruling class of the ruling nations, have to control it all.

Stop the control freak shit, stop the discrimination shit, and stop the fear of the OTHER shit.

That is the only way to make the world grow with knowledge and not be stuck in fights over LIES.

[Tainari88]

@late I just found out that in the state of Alabama, there was still a ban on interracial marriage until the year 2000. It was finally struck down legally 23 years ago.

@Rich did you know that?

Yes, the USA is not a racist society with these kinds of bans eh? No, all these claims of discrimination are just lies eh? I do not think so my main man in England.

2000 Alabama Amendment 2, also known as the Alabama Interracial Marriage Amendment, was a proposed amendment to the Constitution of Alabama to remove Alabama's ban on interracial marriage. Interracial marriage had already been legalized nationwide 33 years prior in 1967, following Loving v. State of Virginia.

Despite the state law, love could not be stopped. Interracial couples kept marrying. From 1865 to 1870, “more than 24 interracial marriages are reported in the Richmond Enquirer alone,” according to Encyclopedia Virginia. The penalty for such marriages remained harsh.Jun 12, 2017

[Rich]

@late I just found out that in the state of Alabama, there was still a ban on interracial marriage until the year 2000. It was finally struck down legally 23 years ago.

@Rich did you know that?

I wasn't aware of that particular piece of legal trivia no. That the law was still on the books in Alabama, but I presume you're aware that it was completely mute, because of Loving vs Virginia. The law requiring archery practice on Sunday wasn't abolished in England to fairly recently.

There is zero threat to mixed race marriages in the United States. This is not like abortion rights where there is and has been a massive movement to abolish them. The fact that Rufo is in a mixed race marriage himself proves, what I've said many times before the claims of instutionalised White Supremacist racism or a complete lie.

[late]

There is zero threat to mixed race marriages in the United States.

But if you're a Black person you can be killed just because you're Black, if you're a church for Black people you can get burned or bombed or both.

You live in a fantasy world.

This is a historic resurgence of racism, and there is no way of knowing just how bad it will get. But we do know, for a FACT, that it's bad and could easily get a lot worse. It's happened before.

[wat0n]

Resurgence? So there was less racism in the US, say, a decade ago?

[Tainari88]

I wasn't aware of that particular piece of legal trivia no. That the law was still on the books in Alabama, but I presume you're aware that it was completely mute, because of Loving vs Virginia. The law requiring archery practice on Sunday wasn't abolished in England to fairly recently.

There is zero threat to mixed race marriages in the United States. This is not like abortion rights where there is and has been a massive movement to abolish them. The fact that Rufo is in a mixed race marriage himself proves, what I've said many times before the claims of instutionalised White Supremacist racism or a complete lie.

What it proves Rich is that there is a historical precedent for racist codes in the legal system of the USA.

What one lawyer might argue in front of the SCOTUS, long ago that would not change a law at all, during another historical time period might be overturned. People think laws are not subject to political movements or political pressures. They would be wrong on that. Almost all aspects of any society run by governments are subject to political pressures. That is the nature of history and of government.

What the conservatives who back conservative politics love to do now is use something personal like interracial marriages and Black or African American success stories and say---see we are fair to all people. Our system works for everyone. Just back our political point of view and the society will be always fair to everyone. They never talk about what the Left had to do to get the Right in that society to be fair to African Americans seeking to get married to white spouses, or what Indian people in Virginia etc had to do to vote in an election. Indian people who lived on reservations never were allowed to register to vote for years after the Civil War and before the Civil war. They affected zero power over their own states for generations. Is that consistent with the US Constitution?

There is a huge contradiction with how the Right deals with power and social and economic status Rich. The Left in general seeks equality, and the Right seeks stability and the preservation of privileges. In general. Not in all cases.

The Left will win over time. Always. Why? Because the nature of humanity and the world is CHANGE. Change is the only certainty in this world. The world changes. Deserts become jungles, jungles become deserts, Mountains become plains, plains become mountains. If enough time and storms and events happen everything changes over time Rich. Everything. Even our own genetic code is not exactly the same as it was 250,000 years ago. It mutates. It changes and adapts.

Why believe that change has to be resisted socially in human society simply because it is seen as a threat to a power group like the privileged? If you study history in many nation states? You see a pattern emerging. After all, every nation state is composed of human beings. And we are all one species. So our behaviors are similar to other societies that are going through very similar circumstances. Rebellion happens when the native people get fed up with the limits placed on them that no longer respond to what has to change in order to have a functional society.

Why resist change because you can't accept someone or some group who you find should be less powerful than your own? Who died and left you the Crown of Monarchy in a society based on voting and Republican and Representative forms of government? You have to accept change. Not resist it if it is necessary.

Change is necessary. The issue is if you think the change is good or it is bad. And do you think intermarrying with someone who is not from your English background Rich is a good thing or a bad thing? And why?

For me? If you find a man who you love and are attracted to, (I am speaking as a Puerto Rican woman that is heterosexual of course), and you feel good being with him and talking to him and sharing your life with him? Why should the state say you can't marry him? Because he is English, Scottish, Irish, Polish, Russian, mixture of European stock, or he is African or Indigenous or Chinese, Korean or whatever? The Conservative element takes or used to take pride in saying they want small government and that interferences from the state in private matters and private issues is government overreach.

Yet they do interfere when they feel they lose control of class segregation. Segregating people due to their historical role in the economy of the USA, like former slaves on plantations were in the Southern states like Alabama was...is ridiculous Rich. But, that is what Right Wing conservatism for me means. Fear based shit. Forever. Let go of fear. It will not help. Change is the nature of living on planet Earth. Human societies evolves and the interactions between groups continues to grow and become increasingly more interwoven and complex. Airline travel, bus travel, and train and car and so on travel continues to happen.

With greater communications we have windows of observation into almost all of the almost 200 nations in the world today. All with many diverse groups of people. We either deal with that reality or we believe purity is the only real way of interacting when the evidence states the contrary.

Can't let fear shape our emotionally significant decisions. At all. The Left is the credited group for defending the right to choose who to marry without the fear based white supremacists making the decisions. Those people will die in denial of human life.

[Godstud]

There is less racism in the USA than at any other time in history but the perception is otherwise, because MSM is pushing the narrative.

There are no "white supremacists" resurfacing, etc. This is a lie. There are no more than than there have ever been and if it seems otherwise, that's because you have MSM pushing this narrative, which is great for dividing stupid Americans.

[Tainari88]

There is less racism in the USA than at any other time in history but the perception is otherwise, because MSM is pushing the narrative.

There are no "white supremacists" resurfacing, etc. This is a lie. There are no more than than there have ever been and if it seems otherwise, that's because you have MSM pushing this narrative, which is great for dividing stupid Americans.

I think the problem is gridlock in the US political system.

Racism is there always. It will be there if groups of people do not work on it. And it is not just a US problem either.

[Godstud]

@Tainari88 Racism, like sexism, will always exist. It is an extremely tiny portion of the population, however. It is not the policy makers, but the same rogue morons who have always existed. Most societies on earth have advanced past racism as being anything but a fringe element that has little, or no impact, on societies as a whole.

USA is one of the least racist countries on earth and it's high time Americans realized it. You have more racism in places like Japan and Korea.

[Tainari88]

@Tainari88 Racism, like sexism, will always exist. It is an extremely tiny portion of the population, however. It is not the policy makers, but the same rogue morons who have always existed. Most societies on earth have advanced past racism as being anything but a fringe element that has little, or no impact, on societies as a whole.

USA is one of the least racist countries on earth and it's high time Americans realized it. You have more racism in places like Japan and Korea.

Racism had to be fought against with leaders getting their brains blown off Godstud. It took a lot of people getting beaten down, dogs deployed to attack, and people disappearing and dead bodies found months later for YEARS to deal with institutionalized racism. It is recent. And by recent I mean less than a hundred years ago that new laws have been in place stating that if you do not give a job to a person because they are black, Asian, Native American, Latino, etc. or because they are a woman or a man, etc. you are in violation of the law. Less than a hundred years. I was born BEFORE 1967. The year Loving vs the state of Viriginia said it was illegal for the state to say you had no right to be married to a person of another 'race'.

It is kind of new this new eradicating racism shit Godstud. For you to declare the world got over it quickly or it is no longer having a generational effect? Is erroneous. It takes time to get rid of institutionalized racism. It takes even longer to eradicate what is tradition and caste systems and class systems.

I disagree that the USA is one of the least racist nations on Earth. It is a nation that had all kinds of laws that prohibited interracial marriages, prohibited many black people from voting and registering to vote along with denying Chinese and Japanese Americans a right to own property, and to hold jobs and also interned them during WWII because they were suspicious. I am not going to argue with you about historical facts. You are intelligent enough to realize I am not bullshitting you about that.

The problem is you are taking Korean history, Chinese history, Japanese history and so on and thinking it is the same as Canadian history or US history. It is not. Canada had a specific set of historical conditions in that nation and so did the USA. It had to deal with settlers and colonial settlements run from afar by the British Monarchy and British class system. It did not treat the Native peoples well. At all. It mostly killed them off to take their land. You can sit there and argue that it is in the past. That things have changed. How did it change? With Right Wing conservatives? Who love to sit on their ass and make sure only European extraction ruling class people get the Lion's Share of profit and access? No. It was the hard Lefty pain in the ass people who are always there...pressuring about equality and fairness under the law. Without that pressure? The Right sits on its ass all day and refuses to be fair or just. It is about privileges, tradition and whoever has the biggest guns and kills the opposition wins the right to make the laws, the rules and impose on the rest of society. That is REALITY. Whether you agree with it or do not agree with it.

European background people in Canada or in the USA very rarely experience the same things as people who are not European living in these societies. If they did? They would be a bit different in perspectives on many things. On history, on economic might, on social access, health access, employment status, marital status, housing access, and every aspect of significance in society Godstud.

Japan, China, Korea, are those nations full of people who INVADED and KILLED OFF the people who lived there before and then IMPOSED their culture on the rest via force, coercion, slavery for generations, and rewrote history. Did they forbid speaking Japanese in the school systems and imposed some new language on the old ones who were there before? No.

Asia is an old continent and also the nations with imperialistic ambitions like Japan are universally hated by the rest of Asia who had to suffer the invasions of that Empire. The Chinese hated losing Hong Kong to the British. They hated being colonized. The Vietnamese hated being invaded by the French, the Americans and others. Does that make them racist? Korea is divided because of interferences from Colonial powers. Colonialism is a fucking scourge on humanity. I hate it with everything I have. Because it represents DEATH. Death to cultures, death to sovereignty, death to the people who forged a relationship with their lands and peoples through centuries of sweat and hard work. All because of some overweening selfish people intent on FORCE and KILLING to control places they never invested their own work in. Who want to get something that does not belong to them. In order to retain power. And not for the vast working people of these nations of Empire, but for the ELITE only in those nations.

It causes war, heartache, dead cultures, polluted land, greed run rampant, need for investment in arms, distrust and hatred for generations, and total and absolute DISRESPECT for the people who were KILLED by the millions for the sake of power and greed.

If you do not understand that ugly past? It is not my problem. It is yours.

If you respect a culture and love it? You learn their language fluently, you study their history, and you make an effort to sacrifice to understand it all. And you keep your own. No need to stop being Canadian, what the purpose of acculturation is ultimately in this world Godstud, is to see the human connection in ALL CULTURES. Not in just one or two of them.

Japan is Japan because the Japan is a series of islands. From Hokkaido to Okinawa and below. Diverse geographies. It had two bombs thrown on it because one was not enough supposedly. Godzilla to a certain extent is Japan's subconscious thinking about itself or about the menace from Western nations from its past history, like Russia, China, England, etc. Lol. Always wanting what the East could produce. Wanting the wealth it had. And still has.

Why should any nation that has felt the lash of attack from the Greed of Empire ever OPEN itself up to a bunch of European English-speaking types that throughout history have only proven to be full of GREED for what is NOT their land or wealth? If you want open acceptance? Be the change you want to see in the world. Be just, be fair, be open, be flexible, learn foreign languages, and learn the value of the many ways humans show their human qualities in every culture out there on planet Earth. Not making the effort because you love your privileges? Is not the way it works. If you complain that the other culture is exploiting you and treats you like an outsider? Welcome to the world of many people who are not the power group in many societies. It is the behavior of exclusion. And that is practiced by people who fear sharing their wealth, land, and social status with the people whom they consider the inferiors. They are little people with little minds.

Imperialism is going to make everyone insular. And CLOSED. I would. If all the European Empires knew how to do is dominate, kill, and take over? And then deny history. Say 'racism' has been taken care of. And lie to themselves about their deeds? How the fuck do you get past the weight of the past? By denying it? No. By acknowledging it and embracing the mistakes, taking responsibility, and then CHANGING what was done wrong and being dedicated to what is the opposite of it. Love. Respect. Equality. Fairness and a willingness to share with everyone. As equal partners.

People respond beautifully to that Godstud. It never fails. If you respect and love people, serve them without self-interest, and become a person of tremendous trust? That is the quickest way to end racism. It always will be.

[late]

Racism had to be fought against with leaders getting their brains blown off Godstud. It took a lot of people getting beaten down, dogs deployed to attack, and people disappearing and dead bodies found months later for YEARS to deal with institutionalized racism. It is recent.

He knows.

They almost always know. Its like a neurosis, they know despite denying the obvious..

[wat0n]

So where's this alleged resurgence of racism happening in the US? Is the US really more racist than a decade ago?

[Tainari88]

So where's this alleged resurgence of racism happening in the US? Is the US really more racist than a decade ago?

Wat0n have you been listening to what Trump says? The racist language he uses all the time? Have you read his book? Do you listen to how the MAGA crowd calls people who are Latino? Vermin? Not the best people? Rapists?

I had to listen to a woman who said her relatives in Arizona near the border town where she grew up and she was on the schoolboard in Aurora Public Schools, talking about how the Mexicans are drug dealers, rapists and killers. ALL OF THEM. And how they invaded Arizona and made her feel unsafe. She was making decisions for school policy for a school district with over 65% or more kids who were Latinos and most of them of Mexican background. That is not going to affect them? When she refuses to fund English as a Second Language classes, and she wants to make sure their parents are here legally before letting them attend schools even though it is against the law to do that.

That is not racism for you in the here and now? Or my son who is African American and practicing basketball in our backyard in Denver and had a bunch of cops on five different occasions draw guns on him and almost shoot him for being a teenager, tall and a male and African American in a neighborhood that was becoming gentrified and had terrified white professionals with descriptions of thieves in the hood that were black. He fit the description. I had to go out there and stop them from shooting my son like a dog. They questioned who I was....you are not his mother. You are not black. I am an adoptive mother. You look white with a Spanish name? Are you an illegal alien? No, I am Puerto Rican. Prove it.

That is not fucking racist right? Wat0n do you want to hear all the incidents of racism I had to go through? My father, my mother, my uncle, my cousins, my sister whom I do not like at all, but even she had to go through it. Do you want me to do that?

It is systemic. I am not under the impression that it is not. it is systemic. Why? It is about power.

Is it a coincidence that someone like Trump grew in power after there was an Obama administration? A Black president in the White House. Built by ex-slaves. A Black man with an original African father's last name. Not Washington, Jefferson or so on....but an African last name from Africa. Not an assimilated last name. He did not marry a white wife. It was an African American family in a White House built by ex-slaves and had presidents who were slave owners in there as presidents. That did not trigger a reaction from the crowd of people who are MAGA and RACIST. Please.

What it means is that MORE Leftist stuff needs to happen because the racists are now outnumbered and are increasingly desperate and willing to use violence, fraud, and lies to retain power. Because the liberalism and the Leftism of the past laws are having an effect and they are having to share power with other people who are NOT WHITE. They RESENT IT. Fuck those racist people Wat0n.

I will never be feeling sorry for them. They use all kinds of violence and killing to keep people afraid. Fear is not going to stop the tide of non-Europeans living in the USA. It is over. The New Americans are not from Europe. Accept the future is not about Europe anymore. it is about Asia, Africa, and Latin America. Accept it and stop the denial.

Europeans are not the majority of human beings. They never will be. So why hope that only Europeans run a society based on mass immigration like the USA is? It is foolish. Accept the reality and that is it.

Now, the Right wants what? For the ones who are not white to become white in culture, thought and actions? That is cultural imperialism. Allow people to be who they are. Period.

Again, diversity is strength, and homogeneity is not. It is weakness. You see it in nature. If you raise a monocrop of corn, wheat, rice, bananas and they are clones and only come from one genetic type and are hit by disease? It means it is wiped out completely. None survive the plague. If you have diversity of variations of those crops? Most die off but a fraction survive the plague because variations guarantees survival. Yet, humans in human societies want to dominate the rest and have only one culture, language, and socioeconomic model to be the one followed and conformity to be the ideal.

They are asking for social and cultural suicide. Stop that shit. Allow differences and stop the crap that does no one any good.

All this fear of the people who are not conforming to some ideal that is fake is stupid.

You go and study the US Constitution. It is mostly trying to avoid the mistakes of Europe and of the English crown.

But they did not accept African slaves as equals. Civil War. They did not accept Native Americans as equals. Genocide and wars. Did not accept women voting. Protests and conflict.

Did not accept Civil Rights and Human Rights being applied. Even after fighting the Third Reich in WWII. The Civil Rights Movement happened. The Crash of 1929 and the Great Depression. FDR and the New Deal as a result.

What does it mean? You have to fight for something better. The system won't give it to you without work.

That is what that means.

[wat0n]

Wat0n have you been listening to what Trump says? The racist language he uses all the time? Have you read his book? Do you listen to how the MAGA crowd calls people who are Latino? Vermin? Not the best people? Rapists?

Do you ever talk to Latino immigrants about this?

Specifically about Venezuelans - I've heard many other Latinos say similar stuff about them. Specially other Chileans, Colombians and also Peruvians, and those who are visiting from there. I also saw it first hand when I was visiting my family in Chile just 4-5 months ago.

You should really follow the news from South America and the whole Venezuelan thing over there, because we, South Americans, definitely do.

I think it's sad, the families who come here do it by foot and bring their children. Those kids are not to blame for whatever adults do, and do their best to integrate like most immigrant kids do. Their parents, for the most part, also want to advance in life even though there are definitely adults with criminal histories who emigrate to continue with that. Yet I understand why many people don't want to deal with the whole issue to begin with and that the sheer number of migrants overwhelms social services and governments everywhere, in the end the solution lies in toppling the dictatorship that took over Venezuela and turned it from one of the richest countries in South America into one of the poorest ones to the point that even criminals are looking for better "opportunities" abroad, and not in the US, Chile, Colombia or Peru.

I had to listen to a woman who said her relatives in Arizona near the border town where she grew up and she was on the schoolboard in Aurora Public Schools, talking about how the Mexicans are drug dealers, rapists and killers. ALL OF THEM. And how they invaded Arizona and made her feel unsafe. She was making decisions for school policy for a school district with over 65% or more kids who were Latinos and most of them of Mexican background. That is not going to affect them? When she refuses to fund English as a Second Language classes, and she wants to make sure their parents are here legally before letting them attend schools even though it is against the law to do that.

That is not racism for you in the here and now? Or my son who is African American and practicing basketball in our backyard in Denver and had a bunch of cops on five different occasions draw guns on him and almost shoot him for being a teenager, tall and a male and African American in a neighborhood that was becoming gentrified and had terrified white professionals with descriptions of thieves in the hood that were black. He fit the description. I had to go out there and stop them from shooting my son like a dog. They questioned who I was....you are not his mother. You are not black. I am an adoptive mother. You look white with a Spanish name? Are you an illegal alien? No, I am Puerto Rican. Prove it.

That is not fucking racist right? Wat0n do you want to hear all the incidents of racism I had to go through? My father, my mother, my uncle, my cousins, my sister whom I do not like at all, but even she had to go through it. Do you want me to do that?

It is systemic. I am not under the impression that it is not. it is systemic. Why? It is about power.

Is it a coincidence that someone like Trump grew in power after there was an Obama administration? A Black president in the White House. Built by ex-slaves. A Black man with an original African father's last name. Not Washington, Jefferson or so on....but an African last name from Africa. Not an assimilated last name. He did not marry a white wife. It was an African American family in a White House built by ex-slaves and had presidents who were slave owners in there as presidents. That did not trigger a reaction from the crowd of people who are MAGA and RACIST. Please.

What it means is that MORE Leftist stuff needs to happen because the racists are now outnumbered and are increasingly desperate and willing to use violence, fraud, and lies to retain power. Because the liberalism and the Leftism of the past laws are having an effect and they are having to share power with other people who are NOT WHITE. They RESENT IT. Fuck those racist people Wat0n.

I will never be feeling sorry for them. They use all kinds of violence and killing to keep people afraid. Fear is not going to stop the tide of non-Europeans living in the USA. It is over. The New Americans are not from Europe. Accept the future is not about Europe anymore. it is about Asia, Africa, and Latin America. Accept it and stop the denial.

Is this not something many were saying, often openly, already? And not just white people, by the way.

Going on with the Venezuelan migrants, several communities from Chicago have been vocally opposing giving them shelter inside their neighborhoods. And I don't mean just mostly white communities or even US citizens.

[Tainari88]

He knows.

They almost always know. Its like a neurosis, they know despite denying the obvious..

If Godstud knows then why is he saying this now?

Where is he basing his point of view? Does he realize that the people marching, and protesting were not from the Right at all. The vast majority were from the Left or from religious communities defending their point of view about what being a good Christian was about. That is what changes the world.

Does he want a list of people who were from the Right of the Political spectrum in 1964 and what they thought about Martin Luther King Jr. and the Civil Rights struggle? J. Edgar Hoover's FBI sent MLK Jr. letters in the mail telling him to commit suicide and threatening to smear him with recordings of doctored fake crap of him being an aulterer and having sex and other frame up crap stuff.

I get tired of people who do not study history and what happens to people who really do threaten the system. They usually wind up dead. Shot in the head. Or killed off or tortured and silenced and or imprisoned. For years.

None of the changes of any real value are reached so far without some BLOOD being spilled. Usually by some activist or leftist. Do they get promotions and rewards for that? They never do. They wind up on black lists to not be hired, stripped of money, freedom and any ability to feed their families. Thrown in jail, tortured or outright murdered.

Why? The system is full of people who do not want CHANGE. They are benefiting from the status quo and they do not give a shit about the many who suffer. It is a form of class privilege and it is their ability to hold on to power. If that power is threatened the ones with the low life mentality go for a gun and violence. Threats. If a slave ran away from a plantation because she got raped by the Master or the head overseer and was working from sunrise to after dark, and had to pick crops and do the hard field labor. Had to come home to a dirt floor, cold and misery and abject poverty. Be raped, exploited, never even see her own babies grow up and be adults, never pick a spouse or have a family she or he could count on to be together? They see no hope. They RUN. They get caught and are whipped, and or have their leg cut off or their toes. Make it hard for them to run.

Or sold off to help the Master get out of debt because he drinks too much or gambles or has a mistress to keep in town. What the FUCK? The slaveowner uses threats and violence to keep that slave in LINE. Obedient.

Somehow the world does not change with these assholes. Fear and threats is what they love. To keep what from happening? Losing control of labor, of people to use and abuse. When will they learn to stop that cockroach level of thinking? When @late ?

They all said things like, slaves do not know better. They were bred to be slaves. They do not have the capacity to be do something different. It was all justified for them to keep exploiting and the banks to keep lending money to plantation owners to buy more slaves and pay them off as they went. An economic system that made only certain people well off and many other in misery.

You would think they might wake up someday and make the connection of why there is racism? They do not. They want to think it is all gone and forgotten. It might be. But it can't happen without the acknowledgement that the damage happened, and that change is something that does not come without struggle. That all this abuse just disappears without work and effort and struggle? It never just stops without anything compelling it to change.

And it won't be the Right. Study who is always pushing the changes? Rich and wealthy dominant culture people? They are mostly people who are not from the lower classes. EVER.

Again, study who opposed Martin Luther King Jr in the sixties? All of them did. Even Kennedy. Caroline Kennedy released the Jackie O tapes about MLK Jr. None of those establishment people wanted changes. They had to do it to avoid serious consequences. Politically and so on.

Nothing happens without struggle.

How come they do not realize this or they deny that is true?

[Tainari88]

Do you ever talk to Latino immigrants about this?

Specifically about Venezuelans - I've heard many other Latinos say similar stuff about them. Specially other Chileans, Colombians and also Peruvians, and those who are visiting from there. I also saw it first hand when I was visiting my family in Chile just 4-5 months ago.

You should really follow the news from South America and the whole Venezuelan thing over there, because we, South Americans, definitely do.

I think it's sad, the families who come here do it by foot and bring their children. Those kids are not to blame for whatever adults do, and do their best to integrate like most immigrant kids do. Their parents, for the most part, also want to advance in life even though there are definitely adults with criminal histories who emigrate to continue with that. Yet I understand why many people don't want to deal with the whole issue to begin with and that the sheer number of migrants overwhelms social services and governments everywhere, in the end the solution lies in toppling the dictatorship that took over Venezuela and turned it from one of the richest countries in South America into one of the poorest ones to the point that even criminals are looking for better "opportunities" abroad, and not in the US, Chile, Colombia or Peru.



Is this not something many were saying, often openly, already? And not just white people, by the way.

Going on with the Venezuelan migrants, several communities from Chicago have been vocally opposing giving them shelter inside their neighborhoods. And I don't mean just mostly white communities or even US citizens.

The solution is never going to be moving 30 million Latin Americans into the USA. And then next year 100 million and so on. What needs to happen is this--analyze why people can't remain in their home nations. Used to be the Irish had the Irish potato famine and the troubles with the English and they immigrated to the USA in HUGE quantities. There are about almost 40 million Americans of Irish descent in the USA. Why? Poverty, war, and problems. If it gets fixed? Do the Irish stay in Ireland? Yes they do.

But, somehow this shit about newcomers? Everyone except for the Native Americans in the USA are from somewhere else. Why do they go to the USA? Some say it is freedom. Some say this or that. If one is realistic? MONEY. JOBS. POVERTY.

LOW WAGES. CRIME. INSTABILITY.

Venezuelans are the victims of bad government policies. But so have the Mexicans in the past, and the Central Americans and the Jamaicans, and the Puerto Ricans and the Chileans, and the x and y and z group of people. No one discusses why so many nations can't stabilize their people. WHY?

The USA can't take in 300 million people living in poverty. All at once.

They advertise that they have the best of everything. Freedom. Justice, High wages. High standards of living. Kids get education done in the public school system. Everyone reaches the American Dream if they work hard, put their nose to the grindstone and struggles hard. Everyone becomes a success.

There are Americans both white and black, Latino, and of every nationality who never make it. Never make it. Get stuck in ghettos, get stuck in shit forever. If you want to study the factors of why there are so many people who failed at reaching the American Dream and get stuck in poverty? There are truckloads of evidence that it is SYSTEMIC.

Now, it is much less difficult for people who are from Latin America, Africa and Asia and etc to become professionals in the USA. Before they would not even be accepted in white run Universities in the 1950s.

Everything is about struggle.

It is also about how to cope with things.

Is the system working for native born in the USA Americans? A lot of Native Born are living in trailer parks, evicted, sleeping in their cars and in tents, suffering veterans without decent housing suffering from mental issues.

The list is endless. It is not the streets paved in gold.

But who is to reject the Venezuelans. They think they have a shot at the dream. Everyone says the USA is about freedom, and being able to make money and own a home and so on.

Do you think they are being realistic wat0n? Or have they watched too many TV shows where everyone in the USA is living well?

You might say lying propaganda has caused the crisis at the border. Lol.

Look at this video:

They pay thousands to human traffickers and they run in and it is catch and release. They wait months to see an asylum judge. Most get rejected for staying. But to deport them is expensive for the state. They leave them to go and find jobs under the table, and so on. Or wait 20 years to bring their families.

I think the reality is that the system is not working for the working class, the middle class and many others. And the USA is going to feel the pressure of not dealing with the needs of the many. It is part of the lies that have been told. You want a safer world? A safer society? Then make all the nations in the world (about 200 nations), sustainable. Safe. With decent wages. With schools to educate the children of all the nations. And shelter that is safe and sustainable. And a life that is worth staying put for.

Continue with shitty policies? You will have crisis. Period.

[late]

If Godstud knows then why is he saying this now?

I play a game called Go. It's an amazing board game, and a good gift for a teen.

Anyway, we are a long, long way from Asia (where most of the Go players are) and it's a struggle to keep a Go club going. I've had 5 die on me.

So I am at the Go club, despite being as sick as a dog.

One of the guys, nice guy but totally neurotic, always thinks he's sick. He feels he has to be sicker than me, he looks fine.

If he was sufficiently threatened, he would break through his denial, and admit the obvious.

He knew...

Neurosis is a coping mechanism. When a reality really gets to you, one way of dealing with it is to deny it.

[Tainari88]

@wat0n so many fools tell me, but it must mean the US is better. All these people are paying and spending a lot of efforts to get to the USA. because we is the best....better than all the rest...better than anyone...anyone I ever met.

Meanwhile, you are struggling in Chicago and you have to work and pay back student loans. Try to budget to own your own home.

I got two videos for you:

Nothing mysterious there. You have people who are real true blue Americans who are making shit for wages, living in mobile homes and who are not seeing the American Dream for a long, long time.

But, they BELIEVE. The Power of Myth.

Meanwhile the Nomad Capitalist is not worried about the poor guy or girl in a trailer park and making $30,000 dollars a year in salary.

He is interested in the lifestyle of the rich and cushy.

People want a lifestyle.

They think the USA is the best scenario for it. Is it? The Nomad Dude is saying it is increasingly going down in flames.

What is your rebuttal for him @wat0n ?

[wat0n]

The solution is never going to be moving 30 million Latin Americans into the USA. And then next year 100 million and so on. What needs to happen is this--analyze why people can't remain in their home nations. Used to be the Irish had the Irish potato famine and the troubles with the English and they immigrated to the USA in HUGE quantities. There are about almost 40 million Americans of Irish descent in the USA. Why? Poverty, war, and problems. If it gets fixed? Do the Irish stay in Ireland? Yes they do.

But, somehow this shit about newcomers? Everyone except for the Native Americans in the USA are from somewhere else. Why do they go to the USA? Some say it is freedom. Some say this or that. If one is realistic? MONEY. JOBS. POVERTY.

LOW WAGES. CRIME. INSTABILITY.

Venezuelans are the victims of bad government policies. But so have the Mexicans in the past, and the Central Americans and the Jamaicans, and the Puerto Ricans and the Chileans, and the x and y and z group of people. No one discusses why so many nations can't stabilize their people. WHY?

The USA can't take in 300 million people living in poverty. All at once.

They advertise that they have the best of everything. Freedom. Justice, High wages. High standards of living. Kids get education done in the public school system. Everyone reaches the American Dream if they work hard, put their nose to the grindstone and struggles hard. Everyone becomes a success.

There are Americans both white and black, Latino, and of every nationality who never make it. Never make it. Get stuck in ghettos, get stuck in shit forever. If you want to study the factors of why there are so many people who failed at reaching the American Dream and get stuck in poverty? There are truckloads of evidence that it is SYSTEMIC.

Now, it is much less difficult for people who are from Latin America, Africa and Asia and etc to become professionals in the USA. Before they would not even be accepted in white run Universities in the 1950s.

Everything is about struggle.

It is also about how to cope with things.

Is the system working for native born in the USA Americans? A lot of Native Born are living in trailer parks, evicted, sleeping in their cars and in tents, suffering veterans without decent housing suffering from mental issues.

The list is endless. It is not the streets paved in gold.

But who is to reject the Venezuelans. They think they have a shot at the dream. Everyone says the USA is about freedom, and being able to make money and own a home and so on.

Do you think they are being realistic wat0n? Or have they watched too many TV shows where everyone in the USA is living well?

You might say lying propaganda has caused the crisis at the border. Lol.

Look at this video:

They pay thousands to human traffickers and they run in and it is catch and release. They wait months to see an asylum judge. Most get rejected for staying. But to deport them is expensive for the state. They leave them to go and find jobs under the table, and so on. Or wait 20 years to bring their families.

I think the reality is that the system is not working for the working class, the middle class and many others. And the USA is going to feel the pressure of not dealing with the needs of the many. It is part of the lies that have been told. You want a safer world? A safer society? Then make all the nations in the world (about 200 nations), sustainable. Safe. With decent wages. With schools to educate the children of all the nations. And shelter that is safe and sustainable. And a life that is worth staying put for.

Continue with shitty policies? You will have crisis. Period.

It's good to see you acknowledge that bad politicians and bad policies have a lot to do with why so many people from Latin America want to move out. I agree.

But it is also true that the largest waves of emigrations are coming from Central America and Venezuela. Not all Latin American countries are equal on this one. For many other Chileans, it's just not worth moving out or completely unfeasible to do so (e.g. they can't afford to take loans to study here, they don't know English, they can't stand living away from their families, they're doing just fine financially as they are now in Chile and don't feel a need to leave - all of these happen).

@wat0n so many fools tell me, but it must mean the US is better. All these people are paying and spending a lot of efforts to get to the USA. because we is the best....better than all the rest...better than anyone...anyone I ever met.

Meanwhile, you are struggling in Chicago and you have to work and pay back student loans. Try to budget to own your own home.

I got two videos for you:

Nothing mysterious there. You have people who are real true blue Americans who are making shit for wages, living in mobile homes and who are not seeing the American Dream for a long, long time.

But, they BELIEVE. The Power of Myth.

Meanwhile the Nomad Capitalist is not worried about the poor guy or girl in a trailer park and making $30,000 dollars a year in salary.

He is interested in the lifestyle of the rich and cushy.

People want a lifestyle.

They think the USA is the best scenario for it. Is it? The Nomad Dude is saying it is increasingly going down in flames.

What is your rebuttal for him @wat0n ?

My rebuttal is that living standards in the US are still higher than in Latin America for most - which is why so many people move.

The Venezuelans? Many have tried living in other countries (including Chile) and still decide to come here and try their luck. Many are also thinking about moving further north to Canada or back to Latin America because they are realizing, as you say, the US is not perfect. Yet I am sure many will choose to stay, if they can adapt.

Myself? I was only able to live on my own when I moved here. My student loans? They are going on well, I've not missed any payments or anything like that. It's just a matter of time until I'm done with those.

But others may not be as lucky or well adapted to the US labor market to be able to stay as I am.