[Puffer Fish]

I also know much, much more about economics than you, and that includes rural America.

Rural America is in upheaval. The average age of farmers is in their 60s. The kids usually leave. There is a variety of reasons, but the income of an average farmer is low when compared with the amount of hours worked. There are also few jobs and even fewer careers in rural areas. If that wasn't bad enough, health care facilities, like hospitals, have been closing for a generation. It's not unusual that it takes over an hour to get health care in an emergency.

But that actually conflicts with what you said before about America having "plenty of space" for migrants.

So many of the areas that have space actually don't have "space", economically, for more people.

[Puffer Fish]

Rural America is in upheaval. ...
It's a national problem, and we will eventually be forced to deal with it. But it's not a crisis yet, so it gets ignored.
But not by me.

The reason it is ignored is almost all of the Democrat voter base is in the more populated city areas, not the rural areas. (The Democrats are the more Left-leaning party of the two main parties) The Democrat Party ends up representing more the interests of the people who live in big cities.

The Republicans, on the other hand, typically are less in favor of government interfering in the economy than those who lean more Left. They believe more in the free market. (Of course the Republican Party is a little divided on some issues, such as immigration and foreign trade, or a policy like trying to help farmers in rural areas, and it's hard for them to call attention to a policy trying to address one of these issues without also highlighting divisions within the party)
There are several big donors of money to the Republican Party representing big businesses that benefit from immigration and cheap migrant labour, such as the big Agro corporations.

But all this is a discussion for another thread.

[late]

That's a vast oversimplification.

No, it's not.

Biden and the Dems caved on several issues. The deal he hammered out with McConnell gave Republicans most of what they wanted.

It died because of Trump, who wants chaos because it helps him. He's a sociopath.

[late]

The reason it is ignored is almost all of the Democrat voter base is in the more populated city areas, not the rural areas.


There are several big donors of money to the Republican Party representing big businesses that benefit from immigration and cheap migrant labour, such as the big Agro corporations.

Republicans ignore their rural voters because they whore for the rich.

They are supposed to represent the interests of their voters, and they simply do not do that.

[Puffer Fish]

Republicans ignore their rural voters because they whore for the rich.
They are supposed to represent the interests of their voters, and they simply do not do that.

Many Republican voters are very aware of the issue, although they see the situation in different terms, and use very different terminology. There has been some upheaval going on in the Republican Party over the last 10 years.
You may very much disagree with this but the election of Trump was actually one manifestation of this "battle" going on within the party.

[late]

Many Republican voters are very aware of the issue, although they see the situation in different terms, and use very different terminology. There has been some upheaval going on in the Republican Party over the last 10 years.
You may very much disagree with this but the election of Trump was actually one manifestation of this "battle" going on within the party.

IOW, you need to blame the Republicans for what they aren't doing..

[Pants-of-dog]

Many Republican voters are very aware of the issue, although they see the situation in different terms, and use very different terminology. There has been some upheaval going on in the Republican Party over the last 10 years.
You may very much disagree with this but the election of Trump was actually one manifestation of this "battle" going on within the party.

In terms of protecting you from immigrants, neither faction of the Republicans seems to be financially invested in keeping undocumented migrants out of the USA, and both seem to be limiting legal migration.

[Puffer Fish]

In terms of protecting you from immigrants, neither faction of the Republicans seems to be financially invested in keeping undocumented migrants out of the USA, and both seem to be limiting legal migration.

I'm not sure exactly what you were trying to say. You said two things in your statement that seem to conflict.

This isn't really a black & white thing. There are different Republican leaders were different views. Some want to drastically reduce migration, some only want to reduce it a little, and some do not want to reduce it. I believe their individual views about legal migration mostly line up with their views on illegal migration, with the only exception that some are against illegal migration much more than legal migration.

Is there some special interest forces that are in favor of keeping the migrants in the illegal status category so they can be exploited? Yes. That may even be a factor, that could tip any political decision one way or the other. But for the most part, I do not think that is how most individual Republican leaders think.
Some might simply not want to give illegal migrants legal status because then it makes the migrants permanent, and could even create a long-term incentive for more migrants to come.

[Pants-of-dog]

I'm not sure exactly what you were trying to say. You said two things in your statement that seem to conflict.

This isn't really a black & white thing. There are different Republican leaders were different views. Some want to drastically reduce migration, some only want to reduce it a little, and some do not want to reduce it. I believe their individual views about legal migration mostly line up with their views on illegal migration, with the only exception that some are against illegal migration much more than legal migration.

I do not think that someone’s views on illegal immigration can be inferred from their views on legal migration. Trump, for example, steadfastly opposes legal immigration, but personally benefits from undocumented immigrants.

Is there some special interest forces that are in favor of keeping the migrants in the illegal status category so they can be exploited? Yes. That may even be a factor, that could tip any political decision one way or the other. But for the most part, I do not think that is how most individual Republican leaders think.
Some might simply not want to give illegal migrants legal status because then it makes the migrants permanent, and could even create a long-term incentive for more migrants to come.

Name a Republican leader who openly tries to go after big businesses that hire undocumented immigrants.

[Rancid]

There is certainly a border problem, but it's no where near as large as MAGA makes it to be. The acknowledgement of this fast is coming directly from MAGA's in the house that are unwilling to pass the current border bill (fucking morons).

If it were as big of a problem as they say. They would be passing it already. Instead, they want to not help the people they represent and instead, keeping their manufactured bullshit going for their own political gains.

[Tainari88]

@Rancid this TED talk guy is interesting.

He thinks the future is going to be in the hands of the Elon Musks, the Zuckerbergs and etc.

What do you think?

[Puffer Fish]

Trump, for example, steadfastly opposes legal immigration, but personally benefits from undocumented immigrants.

We've had this discussion before. Trump runs a big hospitality business. If all your competitors are doing something to cut costs, that puts you under a lot of pressure to do that same thing, to be able to compete.
It would like a plantation owner during the time of slavery trying to operate their business without using slaves. They likely wouldn't be able to stay in business.

[late]

We've had this discussion before. Trump runs a big hospitality business. If all your competitors are doing something to cut costs, that puts you under a lot of pressure to do that same thing, to be able to compete.
It would like a plantation owner during the time of slavery trying to operate their business without using slaves. They likely wouldn't be able to stay in business.

He's a crook.

Not everybody breaks the law, and even fewer do the other things, like money laundering, that Trump did. Or using the presidency for fun and profit.

[Puffer Fish]

There is certainly a border problem, but it's no where near as large as MAGA makes it to be. The acknowledgement of this fast is coming directly from MAGA's in the house that are unwilling to pass the current border bill (fucking morons).

The real main reason so many Republicans are unwilling to pass the bill is because it contains a poison pill.
The bill would permanently move jurisdiction of future border legal disputes between Texas and the federal government to D.C.
If the current Democrat Administration actually planned to do an adequate job of enforcing border security, why would Democrats be worried about legal disputes with Texas about the border?

Of course most of the media coverage is not being honest about this, because they want to use the bill to try to accuse Republicans of hypocrisy.

[Pants-of-dog]

We've had this discussion before. Trump runs a big hospitality business. If all your competitors are doing something to cut costs, that puts you under a lot of pressure to do that same thing, to be able to compete.

Thanks for explaining why I am right that Trump loves undocumented immigration.

So we now see how and why Republicans do not want to protect you from immigration.

[Puffer Fish]

Thanks for explaining why I am right that Trump loves undocumented immigration.

I think Trump would have wanted to end it. But only if all his competitors were forced to end it too.

It wouldn't have been fair (or even very realistic from a business standpoint) for Trump's company to have been the only one to end it.

[Rancid]

The real main reason so many Republicans are unwilling to pass the bill is because it contains a poison pill.

It does not contain a poison pill. Republicans are just fucking entitled greedy pieces of shit that do not understand how to serve ALL Americans.

[Puffer Fish]

Thanks for explaining why I am right that Trump loves undocumented immigration.

So we now see how and why Republicans do not want to protect you from immigration.

If Trump didn't want to stop illegal immigration, then why were Democrats fighting with Trump about it?

Trump didn't want to have to take in migrants who just showed up at the border, but the Democrats used legal means to make him.
Do you disagree with that, Pants-of-dog?

[Puffer Fish]

It does not contain a poison pill. Republicans are just fucking entitled greedy pieces of shit that do not understand how to serve ALL Americans.

from a news article:

Conservatives have attacked a provision of the new border security bill that would only allow legal challenges to be made in Washington D.C.

The bill would strip the power of Texas and other states to challenge some of the its provisions in their local federal court.
Conservative commentators were quick to denounce the provision, contained on page 221 of the bill.
After outlining the provisions under which immigrants can seek judicial review of a deportation order, the bill states:

"The United States District Court for the District of Columbia shall have sole and original jurisdiction to hear challenges, whether constitutional or otherwise, to the validity of this section or any written policy directive, written policy guideline, written procedure, or the implementation thereof."


If they removed that part of the bill, most Republicans would be willing to support it.

But there are even more reasons for Republicans to oppose the bill:
https://www.nationalreview.com/2024/02/ ... rder-deal/

[late]

If Trump didn't want to stop illegal immigration, then why were Democrats fighting with Trump about it?

Because he was violating national and international law...

He didn't care if he broke the law hiring illegals, or torturing them. Whatever helps him, that's his only criteria.