Trump had a bad day - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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By noemon
#15304626
Rancid wrote:So let's reset on this as well. I'm sorry if I've insulted you.


Thank you.

As for the second part. There are lots of long (1-3hr in some occasions) talks (many on youtube) from places like CSIS (Center for Strategic and International Studies) which have touched on this topic (among many many other topics). People have posted a bit from Peter Zeihan (Geopolitical analysis/author) here as well which has stated similar about Trump's foreign policy (in context of other things too). Few other folks/groups I can't remember names because I don't specifically catalog every time I read/watch something like this. YOu can add them to your reading/watching list if you'd like.


From my experience reading stuff online, when critics try to rationalise Trump's achievement on foreign policy, they list a whole bunch of positives that they first recognise and then use a single and usually irrelevant negative to reach to the conclusion that Trump is bad. More often than not, they don't even use a foreign policy blunder but instead irrelevant arguments to foreign policy most usually about his character. Which is a strawman.

But both of our impressions are just that. Without something specific we are just extrapolating impressions.

It seems pretty clear to me that:

1) Trump would have avoided a war with Russia
2) that the Democrats want a war with Russia to weaken both Russia and Europe while sacrificing Ukrainians for no tangible benefit.
3) that the Democrats treat their allies like colonies.
4) that Trump brought countries together hitherto considered impossible.
5) that he isolated the Iranian Mullahs, severely undercutting them, much to the cheers of all progressive Iranian people, who simply can't wait for his return.
6) that he or his administration rewarded US allies with tangible benefits, India, Egypt, Israel, Greece and Cyprus are all excellent examples, while Biden treats them all as expendable.
7) That the Democrats interchange between the "moral stance" and the "alliance stance" quicker than changing their socks rendering both as totally whimsical and themselves as unreliable interlocutors as you don't really know when they will pull the carpet under your feet.
User avatar
By Rancid
#15304627
noemon wrote:Thank you.


I expanded what I wrote to make it clear I'm not bullshiting you with the apology.

I'm not going to go down the line items there, except for 7). As you say, it would be extrapolation.

I think it is a mistake to think that Trump/MAGA wouldn't pull the rug under your feet on everything else. He is a narcissist; he will only do what is expedient for him, not Americans, and certainly not the citizens of other nations. The evidence of that is the revolving door that his administration was. Lots of job/post changes in those 4 years.
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By noemon
#15304629
Rancid wrote:Lots of job/post changes in those 4 years.


But it isn't evidence of letting down allies and certainly not like Biden has. Just because you find Trump unpredictable, it does not mean foreign policies established by his administration have been let down by him, like for example many allies have been let down by Biden, first and foremost Ukraine itself regardless from where you 're sitting.

----------------------------

I'm reading about this latest court case.

That he is being penalised to "bring justice to the banks that loaned him". Yes, you can actually say that with a straight face in America with zero facepalm involved.

And I discover that we are not allowed to know anything about it as the Court has gagged everybody from talking about the particulars of the case.

Noice. Never heard that before in such cases. This is usually to protect the identity of [rape] victims during the course of a case or to protect court bias during the course of a case. Neither of which are the case here.

I also heard the statement by the Prosecutor, where she said: "We are holding Trump accountable, he is not above the law, historic day for America" again not even touching upon a single particular of the case itself.

And I also read that the conviction hinged on a single testimony by a convicted perjurer, whom the court recognised as having an "incentive to lie" and who also testified that Trump "never gave him such an order either explicitly or directly".

"On Michael Cohen, Donald Trump's former lawyer and self-described "fixer," Judge Engoron wrote in his ruling that he found the star witness to be a credible witness despite having been convicted of perjury.

"His testimony was significantly compromised by his having pleaded guilty to perjury and by some seeming contradictions in what he said at trial," Engoron wrote. "However, carefully parsed, he testified that although Donald Trump did not expressly direct him to reverse engineer financial statements, he ordered him to do so indirectly, in his 'mob voice.'"

Engoron continued that although the "animosity between the witness and the defendant is palpable, providing Cohen with an incentive to lie, the Court found his testimony credible, based on the relaxed manner in which he testified, the general plausibility of his statements, and, most importantly, the way his testimony was corroborated by other trial evidence."

A "less-forgiving factfinder" might have come to a different conclusion and not believed "a single word of a convicted perjurer," Engoron wrote.

"This factfinder does not believe that pleading guilty to perjury means that you can never tell the truth," he continued. "Michael Cohen told the truth."

Cohen, who pleaded guilty in 2018 to lying to Congress about the Russia probe, addressed the passage on social media, writing on X, "Judge Engoron's determination regarding my veracity at the NYAG Trump civil fraud trial. Michael Cohen told the truth!"


And then people wonder why Trump vows to go after all these people once re-elected.
User avatar
By Rancid
#15304642
noemon wrote: the conviction


Just to be clear, this wasn't a criminal trial, so there was no conviction. It was two civil trials. This was the second of those two trails. In civil court, you are not convicted, you are found liable (or not liable).

The Trump org was already found liable of fraud in a previous trial that concluded some time ago (like Sept of last year) not in this trial. The question of "Did the Trump Org Commit Fraud" was answered in the previous trial, and the answer was yes, they knowingly committed fraud. It was also noted and reported on how the Trump Org over valued its assets at levels that are considered ridiculous. Like it was indefensible levels of over valuation. This is part of why the trial verdict was that the org was liable. There was also stuff around falsifying documents and whatnot as well.

This particular trial was about determining the level of liability and thus the financial penalty that should be paid. The judge actually lighten the punishment. When the Trump Org was found liable in the first trial, this judge ordered that the Trump Org's business licenses to be revoked (i.e. "Corporate Death Penalty"). Today the same judge basically walked back that part of his previous ruling and said that the Trump Org does no have to give up its business license. He and his sons were just banned from holding officer positions for a few years. A much lighter punishment than being told you are banned for life from conducting business in New York.

In effect, this judge just saved the Trump Org from "execution".

noemon wrote:That he is being penalised to "bring justice to the banks that loaned him". Yes, you can actually say that with a straight face in America with zero facepalm involved.


I haven't seen this in the reporting, but it's important to keep in mind that it was the Trump Org on trial, not Trump himself. Pretty sure this is part of why it was a civil trail, you can't exactly throw a business in prison.
User avatar
By Rancid
#15304673
One general point about civil trials people should understand is that civil trials require a lower burden of proof on he prosecution.

In criminal cases it's "beyond a reasonable doubt". Which, of course, is subjective, but for many people, that basically means that you need to believe there is a 99%-100% chance that someone did whatever they were accused of doing to find them guilty. In the case of civil liability, it is much lower. For example, here in Texas, the standard is "a preponderance of evidence". This roughly means that all you have to believe is that there is a 51% chance or higher that the defendant is liable. A much much lower bar.

In short, it's easier to find someone civilly liable, than criminally guilty. This is why OJ Simpson was found not guilty in his criminal trail, but then later found liable back in the 90s.

How do I know this? I've been in juries and jury selection for criminal and civil trails. They explain these things to perspective jurors during the process.
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By Pewty
#15304711
Istanbuller wrote:Anti-Trump people hate democracy. They want one party rule.

Anti-Trumpism is a serious threat to American democracy. It should be held accountable.


A little late. National Opposite Day was on January 25.
User avatar
By Rancid
#15304712
Pewty wrote:A little late. National Opposite Day was on January 25.


I can think of 11780 reasons Trump is anti-democracy, which is one more than we have.
User avatar
By Rancid
#15304719
@noemon, more of the statement you quoted from is read out in the video below. Right around 1:17. The judge noted the most important reason he believed Cohen's testimony is that other evidence corroborated what he said on the stand. So it wasn't that the judge just took his word with nothing else.

User avatar
By ingliz
#15304727
@Rancid

Trump had a good day on the 15th.

Digital World shares rose 16% to $50.49 in afternoon trading in New York on Thursday. At this stock price, and assuming no Digital World shareholders exercised the right to redeem their shares, the combined company would be worth about $10 billion and Trump would own a 58.1% stake worth about $4 billion.

SEC clears Trump's social media deal worth as much as $10 billion, Reuters February 15, 2024

$355 million?

Pffft. Chump change.


:lol:
User avatar
By Rancid
#15304742
ingliz wrote:@Rancid

Trump had a good day on the 15th.

Digital World shares rose 16% to $50.49 in afternoon trading in New York on Thursday. At this stock price, and assuming no Digital World shareholders exercised the right to redeem their shares, the combined company would be worth about $10 billion and Trump would own a 58.1% stake worth about $4 billion.

SEC clears Trump's social media deal worth as much as $10 billion, Reuters February 15, 2024

$355 million?

Pffft. Chump change.


:lol:


Good for him. I'd bet he'd still take the gofundme money though lol.

He is poised to drain the RNC, which will fuck over the rest of the Republican party.

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