Biden, 14th, Trump 45th - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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By late
#15305482
"Presidential historiansin a new survey rank President Biden as the 14th best president in U.S. history — and put former President Trump last."

With the posts I've been seeing trying to portray Biden as incompetent, I thought I'd mention what the guys that evaluate presidents as a profession think..

I've been waiting for Reagan's standing to go down, it's down 5 now. Historians, as a rule, don't like economics. Which will delay the drop, but as it slowly percolates through their concrete, expect his standing to go down more.

https://www.axios.com/2024/02/19/presidents-survey-trump-ranks-last-biden-14th
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By Rancid
#15305491
late wrote:"Presidential historiansin a new survey rank President Biden as the 14th best president in U.S. history — and put former President Trump last."

With the posts I've been seeing trying to portray Biden as incompetent, I thought I'd mention what the guys that evaluate presidents as a profession think..

I've been waiting for Reagan's standing to go down, it's down 5 now. Historians, as a rule, don't like economics. Which will delay the drop, but as it slowly percolates through their concrete, expect his standing to go down more.

https://www.axios.com/2024/02/19/presidents-survey-trump-ranks-last-biden-14th


I posted this in the presidential election thread back on president's day.

My comment was, will this matter for the election? Of course not. Should it make MAGA think a little. It should... but they won't.
#15305526
wat0n wrote:Is Trump really worse than Buchanan?

Like, for real? :eh:

Trump is more recent, and therefore looms larger in their minds. Trump is clearly not the worse POTUS of all time, he’s just the most recent bad one, that’s all. But at least he kept Hillary Clinton out of the White House, which can only be a good thing.
By wat0n
#15305527
Potemkin wrote:Trump is more recent, and therefore looms larger in their minds. Trump is clearly not the worse POTUS of all time, he’s just the most recent bad one, that’s all. But at least he kept Hillary Clinton out of the White House, which can only be a good thing.


These guys are historians and political scientists IIRC, they're expected to be able to think long term. Indeed, it's like a premise of this thread.

Hilary would have never kept questioning election results after courts ruled against her, at least, so she'd have been way better than Trump on these grounds alone. But that doesn't mean he's worse than Buchanan, even if he's indeed worse than the median.
#15305528
Potemkin wrote:Trump is more recent, and therefore looms larger in their minds. Trump is clearly not the worse POTUS of all time, he’s just the most recent bad one, that’s all. But at least he kept Hillary Clinton out of the White House, which can only be a good thing.


Hillary was the Savior and the symbolic woman president of all time. She was the woman who was gonna save the White House. Lol.

Hillary would have been more of a disaster Pote? Give me some scenarios of why Hillary woman would have been worse than Trump?

I know she was a Hawk and a really hidden closet fascist in foreign policy but give me some fictional thoughts about that from you eh?
By late
#15305537
Scamp wrote:
Those people are historically ignorant.

No President ever abused his power, trashed the Constitution, and committed more crimes than Lincoln.



If irony was explosive, that would have obliterated half the continent.

And there is why, the Civil War was also an argument about who we are. Every country has growing pains when they become a capitalist economy. The South didn't like the shift of political power to the North. That was the result of the development of capitalism.

But rebel it did. They were largely a mercantilist economy fighting a capitalist economy. Despite having the best military leaders in the country, it was doomed before it started.
By late
#15305538
Potemkin wrote:
Trump is more recent, and therefore looms larger in their minds. Trump is clearly not the worse POTUS of all time, he’s just the most recent bad one, that’s all. But at least he kept Hillary Clinton out of the White House, which can only be a good thing.



Point is, and it's a good one, is that Biden is a good president, and Trump was genuinely dreadful.
User avatar
By Scamp
#15305542
late wrote:If irony was explosive, that would have obliterated half the continent.

And there is why, the Civil War was also an argument about who we are. Every country has growing pains when they become a capitalist economy. The South didn't like the shift of political power to the North. That was the result of the development of capitalism.

But rebel it did. They were largely a mercantilist economy fighting a capitalist economy. Despite having the best military leaders in the country, it was doomed before it started.


We all lost when imperial subjugation won the war over states rights.

The South could never have imagined that Lincoln's army would still be fighting after 300,000 soldiers deaths.
By late
#15305548
Scamp wrote:
We all lost when imperial subjugation won the war over states rights.

The South could never have imagined that Lincoln's army would still be fighting after 300,000 soldiers deaths.



Sigh.

We all lost, and we all gained. For example, when FDR ended Southerners eating mud...

The South had a problem. They had too many young males, and they weren't happy. Southern poor (and most were poor) relied on wild pigs, tree nuts, and something else they could forage for food. All 3 went into decline in the 1800s, prob from overharvesting.

The thing with slave owners is they have a mortal fear of rebellion. And most of their White males were angry. So they saw civil war as taking care of 2 problems at the same time. I imagine that's not something they tell you in the South...
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By Rancid
#15305557
Potemkin wrote:Trump is more recent, and therefore looms larger in their minds. Trump is clearly not the worse POTUS of all time, he’s just the most recent bad one, that’s all. But at least he kept Hillary Clinton out of the White House, which can only be a good thing.


These historical based polls do try to consider the issue of "recent bias" BTW.
User avatar
By Scamp
#15305563
late wrote:Sigh.

We all lost, and we all gained. For example, when FDR ended Southerners eating mud...

The South had a problem. They had too many young males, and they weren't happy. Southern poor (and most were poor) relied on wild pigs, tree nuts, and something else they could forage for food. All 3 went into decline in the 1800s, prob from overharvesting.

The thing with slave owners is they have a mortal fear of rebellion. And most of their White males were angry. So they saw civil war as taking care of 2 problems at the same time. I imagine that's not something they tell you in the South...

I imagine that they don't tell yankees that the Union states and the North had slavery also.
By late
#15305565
Scamp wrote:
I imagine that they don't tell yankees that the Union states and the North had slavery also.



Depends.

We ended slavery, that's what counts.

This is way past what most learn, but Southern slavery was an especially brutal version of slavery imported from the Barbados. Northern slavery wasn't like that.

But, again, we stopped it.
User avatar
By Scamp
#15305567
late wrote:Depends.

We ended slavery, that's what counts.

This is way past what most learn, but Southern slavery was an especially brutal version of slavery imported from the Barbados. Northern slavery wasn't like that.

But, again, we stopped it.


When the Civil War was over, and Lincoln was dead, and all of the Confederate slaves were free, the Union still had slavery. You didn't know this?
User avatar
By Scamp
#15305570
wat0n wrote:Also, this ignores that states began to secede even before Lincoln was inaugurated...

...Under Buchanan, who did nothing about it.

What was Buchanan to do? He didn't want to violate the Constitution like Lincoln did.
Secession of states was not prohibited by the Constitution.
The 10th Amendment says anything not covered by the Constitution is left up to the states.
User avatar
By Rancid
#15305571
@Scamp, real talk.

Which rank do you think Trump should be? 1? 2?

Also, what gender do you identify as?
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