[Sapper]

I do go to an American school at the moment.

I've noticed bias in favor of the Israeli's of course. I figured that all nations do that in their schools, though. You probably can't have a distorted view of history in ANY public education systems. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[ahab]

Comrade Fox, did you transfer that Joke between the converstation between American and Canadian "Vessles"?

Funny, but urban ledgend http://www.snopes.com/military/lighthse.htm

I went through the ameircan public education system. Around 7 to 11 years old they really get you with one side of the story. After that you start getting teachers that know more about a single subject and it becomes harder to only tell one side. One thing that I've really enjoyed was interesting at college is my Pakistani history teacher for recent asian history.

[CasX]

[S.F. edit: See Newbie guide in the Lobby]

[FadeTheButcher]

American nationalism is a comical joke. All the flag swinging and foreign crusades is nothing more than one perpetual distraction. The American frontier never really ended in the late 1800s. The only thing Americans today know is war. They have always been at war - expanding and extending their domination. These foriegn crusades in large part keep the attention of the American focused abroad rather than on things at home. America does not have a true national character. It never has had one. In many ways its the twin of the USSR and Czechoslovakia. It is an artificial state composed of people who if they really sat down and thought about it do not really have much in common anymore. It will come as a suprise to many to watch the USSA disentigrate in the coming decades.

[Siberian Fox]

Curious that one should think that (and I share that opinion - bar thinking the USA will collapse) but the case of the United Kingdom does not seem to support it.

The UK is increasingly a multi-ethnic multi-cultural society where people have nothing in common. London is in fact officially the most international city in the world with more first languages spoken by 50,000 people or more than anywhere else. Yet in the UK there is no patriotism or flag waving anywhwere except where sport is concerned. There were flags hanging from literally every other house (including my own) during the [soccer] World Cup, but they all went down once it was over. I certainly didn't consider handing a flag from the front window an act of nationalism, but simply showing support for our football team. So, then, it cannot be just a lack of people having anything in common today that is the source of the USA's 'overpatriotism'.

I watched the American FOX network for about 10 minutes yesterday and was appaled. They were discussing how a journalist had been rightfully sacked for criticising the war plan in Iraq. Preceeded, entertwined with and followed by endless nationalist propaganda. Unbelivable. Even the UKs military advarts are completely different. The commercial for joining the US army I saw was all "fight for freedom and honour" and all that nonsense, whilst the British army advertising has no rediculously stiring partiotic music, just the slogan [British] "Army: Be the best".

IMHO it is a case of maturness of democracy. The US democracy is not mature, it needs to cling to all these symbols to hold itself together and convince itself that it is right. Sure in the UK there is the symbolic monarchy (hardly a democratic symbol!) but such symbols mean nothing in pulic life. Though I am still not entirely sure... what is it that makes the USA appear so culturally hollow?

[Il Porko]

Just picking up on a point here..
"... what is it that makes the USA appear so culturally hollow"

There are two aspects to this. Firslty, the combination of 'culture' and 'hollow', and secondly, the non-American world's perception of America. Let's look at the culture bit first. What do we mean by cutlure?

There is a scientific answer to that, but for most people, I think 'cultutre' is about vibrancy in eveyrday life. 'Cultural' places have character, something that stands out, is interesting, intellectual or lively. Boring, purile, trite and inane people, places and conversations are seen as 'not being cultural'. So, one could say that 'uncultural' (sic) America is perceived as boring, inane, asinine, trite.....

Here's what amuses me. Yes, by this definition, America's cultural advancement is comparable with the economic acheivements of Stalinist Russia. TV in particular is a moribund, oh so atrocious, scene of artisitc carnage, where moronic 'celebrities' pander to the whims of low minds. Jerry Springer and Oprah Winfrey don't so much spring to mind (pun intended), as run amok like a bull in the proverbial china shop. But what of programs of the quality of the Simpsons? How about South Park? Who here is a Trekkie? aka a dateless wonder (joke)

America's cultural influence is virtually all pervasive in the areas of music, TV, clothing, fashion (also known as paying through the nose for a 1 inch label on the collar of your shirt, in the hope that other people will perceive you as a better person)... How can America be culturally hollow when every culture on Earth is represented in the US population?

From Afro-Americans to 4th generation Irish, to Russians, Slavs, Greeks, genuine Irish (ie from Ireland not just Irish because great-great-great-great=great grandfather Paddy once bought a pint of Guiness)
, America incorporates every culture on Earth. This is a good thing.

I think that some people view America as a land of obese, stupid, ignorant, arrogant, loud, obnoxious idiots. Many of these words could be applied to some of the population of America. Some of these words could be combined, and applied to some of the population of America. Maybe even all of these words are true of some Americans.

Despite all these negatives, there are some points to bear in mind. My little list of negative terms don't apply to all Americans, or to any American in particular. Also, even if all these things are true, this does not preclude the possibility that there are some good things about America. Nor does it imply that everywhere (or anywhere) else is perfect.
This should all be common sense. Then again, if common sense really was common, lots more people would have some sense.

Back to the original question. Why is America perceived as 'culturally hollow'? Let me ask this: why does anybody perceive America as 'culturally hollow'? This blanket perception leaves no room for variance, and varity is America's greatest, and last, defence against many of the evils staining the world at the moment. True, there are shallow, idiotic, misbegotten Americans. This is true of many countries. These people live lives that amount to sleep, eat, shower, work, eat, sleep, shower, work, eat, TV, sleep, weekend, drink,sleep, shower, sleep, eat... ad nauseum.

I think that some people assume that this type of persona describes the majority of Americans. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. How many other people also fit this description? I think it's way too easy to hold... not an anti-American viewpoint, per se, more of a harmless contempt towards all things American. This makes people feel good about themselves, IMO. While America is far from perfect, and there is a section of the population that is shallow, I think it's going too far to say 'America', as a country, is 'culturally shallow'.

[Kov]

Il Porko, thank you. You pointed out some wonderful principals that some people fail to see. Things like all people are human and Star Treck...

Great, a little Guardian of Forever for ya?

You are very true when you say that there are two kinds of Americans. But I say there are 3. The typical "Hill BIlly" that does not question, rather acts with the government. There are the oposition, those that stand out and that are rideculed by everyone, and there is everyone elce.

MOST people are smart. Why? They keep quiet. They do not talk bad, shure they might vote agaisnt it, but to them it is life. Those people know that thier voice is nothing, and so they are silent and live with that fact of life. They go with the tides as you may say, but they are sucessful.

[ahab]

Comrade General Kov has got it right.

I don't accomplish much by stating my opinions. Really, what am I accomplishing by arguing with you folk? I might manage to educate someone or show them reason, but really, not very many people get their reasoning or current events from message boards. I'm going to accomplish about the same as if I were to sit back, ignore all this and vote next elections.

[Proctor]

Yeah, but keep in mind that people's opinions are simply all the experiences they have ever had put together. So by spending time at the PoFo, we are becoming more informed and therefore more right. That goes for people whether they win or lose the debate. Provided they can accept defeat graciously of course...

[Kov]

Yes, maturity is also a part of it. However I still do not know if ahab insulted me or not

Just didnt get the post... Eather way, experiance, maturity, and the ability accept things all are part of it.

[ahab]

I still do not know if ahab insulted me or not

If I insult you, you will know it

Just didnt get the post...

I re-read and I didn't either, so I edited

[TomThumbKOP]

I don't accomplish much by stating my opinions. Really, what am I accomplishing by arguing with you folk?

I don't argue in forums like this for you people. I do it for me. The only way I can be sure that I believe the right things for me is to constantly question them. I come here to have my beliefs dissected and criticized. That is the true purpose to debate IMO.

[Noumenon]

This thing about Americans being brainwashed is complete crap. What about immigrants from various places coming here and then becoming patriotic? I see it all the time. They obviously are not brainwashed from birth. Patriotism is a natural result of experiencing life in the US, unless you are anti-American. Nationalism is only stupid when there is nothing to love about your country. Now there is something to love about America, and thats simply because its a better place to live than pretty much anywhere else. If you don't think so, tell that to the one million people who immigrate to the US legally every year (and the 400,000 who risk their lives to come here illegally). Just because you can't find anything to like about your countries, doesn't mean that people who do are brainwashed.

Patton: I think you're crossing the line from simple patriotism into blind nationalism. The US shouldn't rule the world just because it's the best country. And there is something wrong with war, its a horrible business. But sometimes the ends justify the means.