America`s influence on Hong Kong protests. Is it actually worth of it? - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15050548
benpenguin wrote:Depends on the companies you engage with - I general deal with IT circles, people generally have an open mind, sharp wits and a pleasure to deal with. On older industries - SOEs especially, then you have more of the horrid "old china". Prejudice from Hong Kongers play a part too, I find - so don't judge until you made friends yourself with more mainlanders and see for yourself.


I actually had several Mainland friends when I worked there a decade ago. Quite a number of them are more anti-Government than I do.
#15050550
I'd like to translate a post on a blog I read frequently.

I post it here instead of the main thread because:
1. This is an opinion piece, not news
2. It quite describes how some Hong Kong emigrants in America think.

Tsui Sio-ming wrote:After half a year of stand-off between the police and the citizens, the District Councils' Election Day has finally come.

Over the recent days, I received 'reminders' from both sides.

One side says:
* Polling will be closed abruptly at noon, remember to vote when the polling station opens!
* Beware of any tricks made on the voting paper so that your vote do not go to waste!
* There are facial-recognition cameras in polling stations, to assist arrests in the stations!

While the following is from the other side:
* Do not participate in web polls before the days! Propagandists and IT specialists have come to Hong Kong, for intelligence collection. The rioters will damage things -- while they won't dress in black they will have special symbols...

As reported during morning exercise time, long queues composed of youngsters are around polling stations of middle-class constituencies. What an effort! Looks like it would be restaurants serving breakfasts that will be crowded afterwards. Well, more people, more business!

I had dinner outside the night before yesterday, in a medium-sized Chinese restaurants near an important traffic junction. About a third (1/3) of the tables were occupied, and I believed it's quite OK already. However, what I noticed most is that, the service level has risen back to during the SARS epidemic (2003). The service people responded to my table's request almost immediately. They even gave gentle "thanks" before and after our meal. The two of us (Patrickov: The blogger is a senior citizen living with only his wife) only spent about 200 HKD (Patrickov: Around 25 USD), and we occupied the table for more than an hour, probably not enough for salaries and benefits for a single waiter. I wished to visit more, but as I am well into retirement and only lives on pension, my allowance is really limited.

Another thing that interests me most is that, the pro-government messages I receive are usually from people who had emigrated to North America well before democracy started in Hong Kong. When I was in CUHK, only the now-defunct Urban Council (Patrickov: It is between District Councils and the Legislative Council -- the effective parliament of HK) has seats available for election. The late Elsie Elliot was a pan-Democrat equivalent at that time. However, the election back then was limited to people with assets or university degree -- I guess "with asset" here means owning a property. Since middle and lower class are not eligible for voting, and rubbish is actually one of the most important businesses of the Urban Council, many of them derided the Council as "Rubbish Council".

When those friends returned to Hong Kong a while ago, I had a meal with them, only talking about the old days, almost without mentioning current events. They now have become forerunning "Violence Stoppers" (Patrickov: The concept is from Xi Jinping himself), sending in street violence footage almost every day, and are very hostile to "Rioters", even to a level that demanding all HK Universities (including their alma mater) to disband.

Today is the showdown between the two sides. Although those overseas old fogies had never casted a vote in Hong Kong, they still remind their relatives who are still around to "carry out the Justice". We may as well say that "Oversea Fogies are also Responsible for the Prosperity of Hong Kong". (Patrickov: This is a twist of an old Chinese saying that every commoner is responsible for the society)

I believe these messages of those North American friends of mine, are from Hong Kong sources. After getting them, they re-directed the messages back to their Hong Kong relatives. It is plausible that such an information network is very organized.

Understandably, this is a War between "Pro" and "Anti" camps. The "Antis" do not believe in both the Central Government and the Hong Kong Government at all, and they want to have universal suffrage to ensure autonomy; while the "Pro" camp will hold power to their deaths, but very probably they are losing. I fail to see there's a middle ground. (Patrickov: The story in my previous post today is a very excellent example)

They had been struggling each other for three decades, and the struggle will probably continue. The only change is that, the new "Antis", who are under 30, believe that peaceful protests has no effect after three decades, and it seems only violence is the way. As a result, they brought Hong Kong to a new area, which quickly became the "new way" for Democracy vs Authoritarian regimes around the world (Patrickov: South America, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, etc.).

I do not know a solution to this, and I even suspect that no one, including Xi Jinping, Donald Trump, Nancy Pelosy, Carrie Lam, Jasper Tsang Yok-sing (Patrickov: A revered pro-Beijing figure -- I revere him too), Marco Rubio, etc. had the intelligence to solve it.

Well, as old as I am (Patrickov: This blogger is 74), it no longer matters. In normal circumstances I will not be alive when universal suffrage comes. Good Luck.

Original Source in Chinese


He should be pretty middle ground, given that my Dad denounced him as a "Pro" but I have no hard feeling reading him.
#15050569
Patrickov wrote:I actually had several Mainland friends when I worked there a decade ago. Quite a number of them are more anti-Government than I do.
I do know a couple of those types - small minority though. Majority whine about government one way or another but very nationalistic on key issues.
#15050600
Is it worth it? Depends on what you want.

If your aim is to destroy China, then yes, that's currently one of the few options available. Will it work? No, definitely not. It's just a distraction. But the empire thrives by "divide and conquer". A revolt doesn't actually have to be successful. It's enough if it creates chaos.

If your aim is democracy and peace, then no, it is not worth it. The CCP will not give up its monopoly on power. There is no way that this is going to happen. Beijing will not allow more democracy for HK so as not go on a slippery slope that will one day put into question the CCP's rule in the PRC. The CCP has no choice but to nip it in the but.

You have to chose the battle that you can win and not the battles that you cannot win.
#15050609
Atlantis wrote:Is it worth it? Depends on what you want.

If your aim is to destroy China, then yes, that's currently one of the few options available. Will it work? No, definitely not. It's just a distraction. But the empire thrives by "divide and conquer". A revolt doesn't actually have to be successful. It's enough if it creates chaos.

If your aim is democracy and peace, then no, it is not worth it. The CCP will not give up its monopoly on power. There is no way that this is going to happen. Beijing will not allow more democracy for HK so as not go on a slippery slope that will one day put into question the CCP's rule in the PRC. The CCP has no choice but to nip it in the but.

You have to chose the battle that you can win and not the battles that you cannot win.



If we can only choose battles we can win then there is nothing to say, it is a lost cause.

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