[late]

Xi has been killing China's Belt and Road projects. But he dramatically increased spending on the project in Pakistan.

At a casual glance, you'd have to be mad to invest heavily in Pakistan. It's mountainous, which makes building a train very, very, very expensive. But the rural part of the country is hostile, the country has trouble holding itself together. There will be trouble.

So why are they doing it?

From their point of view, it's crucial. 85% of their oil comes from the Middle East, and their navy can't protect those ships. They don't have a blue water navy. Even if they did, they don't have the numbers to confront the American navy any serious distance from China. To make matters worse, the Indian navy has blue water ships, and if war broke out, they could simply stop 85% of the oil going to China, and redirect it to India.

It gets better.

Both China and India depend on water coming from the Himalayas to survive. They both have severe water shortages, although India's problem is worse.

China is building a dam that could slow, or stop, a lot of the water currently going to India.

So you can see why China wants to use Pakistan to ship oil. And you can see why China wants that dam to keep India from being an equal.

China has been designing it's military to be better than what India has. Forget the press releases about them being competitive with us, they want dominance over India. They just started building a new tank, it's not world class, but it was built from the ground up to fight India.

Anyway, I came across this video that does a good job of explaining all this. And having all this explained will go a long way to explaining why China is doing what it is doing.

[Puffer Fish]

I think people may underestimate just how expensive constructing that train line will be.
Sure there are some geopolitical strategic motivations for the construction of that train line, but it is so expensive and difficult that it is impractical. It's not actually economically feasible. But the Chinese government doesn't seem to care. Seems like a "good idea", never mind the cost. And when it comes to national rivalries, trying to facilitate trade, the Chinese mentality spares no expense.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I believe around 34 workers died in accidents on the construction of the Qinghai–Tibet railway. For the China-Pakistan railway, the death toll will probably be higher than that.

[Robert Urbanek]

I think people may underestimate just how expensive constructing that train line will be.
Sure there are some geopolitical strategic motivations for the construction of that train line, but it is so expensive and difficult that it is impractical. It's not actually economically feasible. But the Chinese government doesn't seem to care. Seems like a "good idea", never mind the cost. And when it comes to national rivalries, trying to facilitate trade, the Chinese mentality spares no expense.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I believe around 34 workers died in accidents on the construction of the Qinghai–Tibet railway. For the China-Pakistan railway, the death toll will probably be higher than that.

And there may be plenty of opportunities for sabotage. Think "Bridge on the River Kwai."

[late]

I think people may underestimate just how expensive constructing that train line will be.
Sure there are some geopolitical strategic motivations for the construction of that train line, but it is so expensive and difficult that it is impractical. It's not actually economically feasible. But the Chinese government doesn't seem to care. Seems like a "good idea", never mind the cost. And when it comes to national rivalries, trying to facilitate trade, the Chinese mentality spares no expense.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I believe around 34 workers died in accidents on the construction of the Qinghai–Tibet railway. For the China-Pakistan railway, the death toll will probably be higher than that.

Read my post, which is just above yours.

[AFAIK]

They have similar motivations in Myanmar and are pursuing a '2 oceans policy' is which imports and exports can enter and leave the country via 2 different coastlines- their own on the East China Sea and Myanmar's on the Indian Ocean. And who controls a chain of islands in the eastern Indian Ocean not far from Myanmar and the Mallaca Straight? That's right, India.

The border dispute is kept alive to ensure India's military sending is focused on the army and the defense of land borders in an attempt to delay the development of the navy and the projection of power from the Andaman Islands.

[Puffer Fish]

The border dispute is kept alive to ensure India's military sending is focused on the army and the defense of land borders in an attempt to delay the development of the navy and the projection of power from the Andaman Islands.

That is an insightful theory, and I'll accept it is likely true.

But India has a huge amount of poverty, a huge swath of the country's population is very low income, and so even being as big as it is, India does not really have the resources to be projecting military power outside its borders. (I mean India is concentrating its resources on its people)

[AFAIK]

Poverty hasn't prevented India from developing a manned space program and it's set to become the 4th country to launch humans into space. Domestic poverty hasn't slowed down the current global hegemony (USA) or the European powers before it.

[Potemkin]

That is an insightful theory, and I'll accept it is likely true.

But India has a huge amount of poverty, a huge swath of the country's population is very low income, and so even being as big as it is, India does not really have the resources to be projecting military power outside its borders. (I mean India is concentrating its resources on its people)

The British Empire ruled the largest world empire in human history while a large part of its own people were starving in workhouses. Domestic poverty never held an empire back before, so why would it do so now?

[Tainari88]

The British Empire ruled the largest world empire in human history while a large part of its own people were starving in workhouses. Domestic poverty never held an empire back before, so why would it do so now?

Precisely why I am against imperialism Pote. Why create such invasions and crap for only a small elite to benefit from it? Better to concentrate on alleviating poverty within your own borders before even trying to overtake what belongs to others through strongarm tactics? It is foolish. Eradicate poverty in your own nation first. The rest of the world will be impressed and want to follow your lead. Then send out the well taken care of and well educated citizens of your nation state to go and help out the ones left behind in other states.

If you do that they come back later and want to do the same. They pay it forward. A competition for cooperative and healing spirits. Not death and destruction.

I got a call from a friend that was a young man about two years younger than I was long ago....that I met in Colorado. He lives now in Oklahoma. He called us and talked. He shocked me. He wants to buy us a house here and donate it to us for no return on his money. I was shocked.

I still do not know what to do. He says my mother and I helped him in a critical time in his life and now he is hugely successful and he wants to do something.

I have been looking for a location for the house. It is shocking. Who does that out of the blue? It makes me wonder.

It is karma. If it can happen with individuals? Imagine whole nations who do eradicate poverty and do good works consistently and then help their neighbors? It will transform the world.

We get used to negative results only. But it does not have to be that way eh?

El Arte de Amar the book by Erich Fromm. That is what life is about.

[Drlee]

China has 'finally' decided to embrace a bad actor position. It is facing increasing pressure from interior markets. This brinkmanship with the US and EU may be satisfying to Chinese workers but it is hurting their economy a lot.

The Nasdaq Golden Dragon China Index has lost more than 5% since April 18. Hong Kong’s Hang Seng (HSI) Index has also shed 5%. And the Shanghai Composite Index and the Shenzhen Component Index have fallen 3% and 6.5% respectively. During the same period, the Nasdaq Composite jumped 4%.

And the Yuan is down 2% against the dollar.

Yet China is using international conflict to feed pap to its citizens.

China may pay a severe price for this. It relies on exterior markets to keep the economy growing at pretty substantial rates. The US and EU could pretty easily turn off the spigot particularly since our respective populations have become more comfortable with shortages after Covid.

China is forgetting its real strength which is to play a long game. That is too bad for China. They could very easily lose most of their global markets if they get into a shooting war with the US and allies. Though I doubt the US has the conventional forces to institute regime change or even, for that matter, occupy any Chinese territory at all, it does have the ability to blockade China entirely. It is a very dangerous game.

[Puffer Fish]

The British Empire ruled the largest world empire in human history while a large part of its own people were starving in workhouses. Domestic poverty never held an empire back before, so why would it do so now?

Multiple reasons.
India is poorer than other modern empires.

India's GDP per capita level is only 2,256 USD. (Compare to 46,500 USD for United Kingdom or 12,200 for Russia)

India is also more socialistic (as a percentage of wealth) than other countries, because of the politics there and large amounts of poverty. The people and politicians would object to far higher military spending levels, when there is barely enough government revenue available for the people's needs.

Just one manifestation of this is, if you go to India, all the infrastructure is crumbling apart. They do not have enough money to keep all their infrastructure up to date. Sidewalks and roads are crumbling, compared to European or even U.S. standards.

[Tainari88]

China has 'finally' decided to embrace a bad actor position. It is facing increasing pressure from interior markets. This brinkmanship with the US and EU may be satisfying to Chinese workers but it is hurting their economy a lot.



And the Yuan is down 2% against the dollar.

Yet China is using international conflict to feed pap to its citizens.

China may pay a severe price for this. It relies on exterior markets to keep the economy growing at pretty substantial rates. The US and EU could pretty easily turn off the spigot particularly since our respective populations have become more comfortable with shortages after Covid.

China is forgetting its real strength which is to play a long game. That is too bad for China. They could very easily lose most of their global markets if they get into a shooting war with the US and allies. Though I doubt the US has the conventional forces to institute regime change or even, for that matter, occupy any Chinese territory at all, it does have the ability to blockade China entirely. It is a very dangerous game.

I wish nations would look for ways of strengthening positive relationships on a human level FIRST.

But, many governments full of egomaniacs never think that way.

I am always amazed how many good people exist in most nations. There are a lot more than anyone can give them credit for.

They should focus on what can be resolved with effort and good will.

That is where hope resides.

[Potemkin]

I wish nations would look for ways of strengthening positive relationships on a human level FIRST.

But, many governments full of egomaniacs never think that way.

I am always amazed how many good people exist in most nations. There are a lot more than anyone can give them credit for.

They should focus on what can be resolved with effort and good will.

That is where hope resides.

As Orwell wrote, if there is any hope at all for the future, it is with the common decency of ordinary people. We get too used to the vanity and callousness of the rich and the powerful, because it tends to be vain and callous people who seek out power over others. We get distracted by the antics of the rich and the powerful, and forget too easily that most people are not vain or callous but are kind and loving and care for each other deeply. This is where there is hope for the future, hope for a better world. The man who was helped by your mother and yourself when he was younger and needed help, he remembered you both with gratitude and love and respect, and he felt the need to reciprocate that help when he was in a position to do so. This is the hope for a better world to come, not just in the afterlife but in this world, where it truly matters. Good deeds create good deeds, and love creates love. This is what we call ‘karma’.

[Tainari88]

As Orwell wrote, if there is any hope at all for the future, it is with the common decency of ordinary people. We get too used to the vanity and callousness of the rich and the powerful, because it tends to be vain and callous people who seek out power over others. We get distracted by the antics of the rich and the powerful, and forget too easily that most people are not vain or callous but are kind and loving and care for each other deeply. This is where there is hope for the future, hope for a better world. The man who was helped by your mother and yourself when he was younger and needed help, he remembered you both with gratitude and love and respect, and he felt the need to reciprocate that help when he was in a position to do so. This is the hope for a better world to come, not just in the afterlife but in this world, where it truly matters. Good deeds create good deeds, and love creates love. This is what we call ‘karma’.

Yes, he spoke with me on the phone. He never mentioned my mother. I wondered why. He was always with us at age 18-22 years old. I remembered so many things.

He mentioned them to my husband and then broke down crying. I remember reading out loud philosophy texts, political science, ancient history of the world, and seminal works by many greats. I read them all aloud to him as my mother cooked and discussed the key points. And then came her long talks and getting him involved in things...so many things.

We had lost touch with him. I never saw him at the funeral. Later he told my husband that he could not cope with the pain of losing her and felt terrible for not going.

He never mentioned her to me because if he did, he would have cried and cried. He feared bringing me pain.

I never blamed him for not coming. Not everyone had the means to go to the funeral.

Two of her best friends of all time were out of state. One in Utah and the other in New York. How could they have come?

India and China are neighbors and both have gone through famine, wars, invasions, colonialism, revolutions, droughts, storms and every imaginable challenge. And both of those ancient Asian countries are still there. Still struggling.

India still is there experimenting and growing in their own definition of democracy. China is there trying to make a space for themselves through any means necessary.

Such old countries both of them are and incredibly influential in culture, history, and struggling. For survival. A human story. Between China and India it is half of humanity we are talking about. Every possible human condition they got.

I think the Westernized nations in Europe and in North America should learn from them. And the two Asian giants should learn from Western civilization. Mostly to be open to modifying something when it is not working because it is suffocated by control.

Look for balance in everything. Including opposites in culture and historical backgrounds.

You know, Pote, I never gave much thought to those years spent with the young man my mom mentored so many years ago.

That is how life is....you cultivate these seeds in people and you leave and move on to other things....and then that grows and become mature....and it comes back to you. I think love is what that is about.

You give without any thought of self interest. You do it about the principle you live by. And then that is what is the best of us.

You never lose that at all.

Nations should do that same. Let me help out my neighbor with their problems. I have worked on my own problems well, and now got a lot more to give to them. You give and move on. Years down the road the recovered neighbor says....I really liked that. What can I do for them?

Interesting. Humans can solve this climate change issue. But they need to change the mentality of only we are worthy people. Superior people. Better people.

The superior people are humble and good people who never want to be superior. They want to be equals and they want to give a lot. Without thoughts of rewards.

[Potemkin]

Yes, he spoke with me on the phone. He never mentioned my mother. I wondered why. He was always with us at age 18-22 years old. I remembered so many things.

He mentioned them to my husband and then broke down crying. I remember reading out loud philosophy texts, political science, ancient history of the world, and seminal works by many greats. I read them all aloud to him as my mother cooked and discussed the key points. And then came her long talks and getting him involved in things...so many things.

We had lost touch with him. I never saw him at the funeral. Later he told my husband that he could not cope with the pain of losing her and felt terrible for not going.

He never mentioned her to me because if he did, he would have cried and cried. He feared bringing me pain.

I never blamed him for not coming. Not everyone had the means to go to the funeral.

Two of her best friends of all time were out of state. One in Utah and the other in New York. How could they have come?

He never forgot what you and your mother had done for him, querida. And he has repaid love with love, generosity with generosity. Good deeds create good deeds, and love creates love.

India and China are neighbors and both have gone through famine, wars, invasions, colonialism, revolutions, droughts, storms and every imaginable challenge. And both of those ancient Asian countries are still there. Still struggling.

India still is there experimenting and growing in their own definition of democracy. China is there trying to make a space for themselves through any means necessary.

Such old countries both of them are and incredibly influential in culture, history, and struggling. For survival. A human story. Between China and India it is half of humanity we are talking about. Every possible human condition they got.

China is the great survivor - dynasty after dynasty collapsed, and the Chinese kept doggedly rebuilding it all, time after time after time. They are still here, and they will always be here.

I think the Westernized nations in Europe and in North America should learn from them. And the two Asian giants should learn from Western civilization. Mostly to be open to modifying something when it is not working because it is suffocated by control.

Look for balance in everything. Including opposites in culture and historical backgrounds.

Exactly @Tainari88. A dynamic balance of opposites - the dialectic.

You know, Pote, I never gave much thought to those years spent with the young man my mom mentored so many years ago.

That is how life is....you cultivate these seeds in people and you leave and move on to other things....and then that grows and become mature....and it comes back to you. I think love is what that is about.

You give without any thought of self interest. You do it about the principle you live by. And then that is what is the best of us.

You never lose that at all.

Yes querida. A good deed is never wasted, and love is never lost. It is the only eternal thing, and not even death can destroy it.

Nations should do that same. Let me help out my neighbor with their problems. I have worked on my own problems well, and now got a lot more to give to them. You give and move on. Years down the road the recovered neighbor says....I really liked that. What can I do for them?

Interesting. Humans can solve this climate change issue. But they need to change the mentality of only we are worthy people. Superior people. Better people.

The superior people are humble and good people who never want to be superior. They want to be equals and they want to give a lot. Without thoughts of rewards.

Exactly. Selfish calculation is self-defeating. It creates only vain and callous people who give no love and receive none. And the same is true for nations. Imperialism and domination bring only destruction, pain and suffering. But co-operation and mutual respect bring out the best in humanity and will bring a great future for the world.