[Fasces]

China’s public is expressing concern about a potential legal change that would allow for fines and even jail time for people who offend the government’s sensibilities by wearing the wrong clothing.

The Standing Committee of the nation’s legislature recently released a draft of revisions to the law it is considering that would forbid a range of behavior including dress or speech “detrimental to the spirit of the Chinese people and hurt the feelings of the Chinese people.”

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -of-others

A draft law banning speech and dressing "detrimental to the spirit of Chinese people" has sparked debate in China.

If the law comes into force, people found guilty could be fined or jailed but the proposal does not yet spell out what constitutes a violation.

Social media users and legal experts have called for more clarity to avoid excessive enforcement.

China recently released a swathe of proposed changes to its public security laws - the first reforms in decades.

The clothing law has drawn immediate reaction from the public - with many online criticising it as excessive and absurd.

The contentious clauses suggest that people who wear or force others to wear clothing and symbols that "undermine the spirit or hurt the feelings of the Chinese nation" could be detained for up to 15 days and fined up to 5,000 yuan ($680; £550).

Those who create or disseminate articles or speech that do so could also face the same punishment.

The proposed legal changes also forbid "insulting, slandering or otherwise infringing upon the names of local heroes and martyrs" as well as vandalism of their memorial statues.

Online, people questioned how law enforcers could unilaterally determine when the nation's "feelings" are "hurt".

"Will wearing a suit and tie count? Marxism originated in the West. Would its presence in China also count as hurting national feelings," one user posted on Chinese Twitter-like platform Weibo.

Legal experts in the country have also criticised the law's vague phrasing, saying it could be open to abuse.

Zhao Hong, a law professor at the Chinese University of Political Science and Law said the lack of clarity could lead to an infringement of personal rights.

"What if the law enforcer, usually a police officer, has a personal interpretation of the hurt and initiates moral judgment of others beyond the scope of law," she wrote in an article published on Wednesday.

She cited one case that drew headlines in China last year where a kimono-clad woman was detained in the city of Suzhou and accused of "picking quarrels and provoking trouble" because she had worn the Japanese garment. The incident sparked outrage across Chinese social media.

There have been other examples of a crackdown.

In March this year, police detained a woman donning a replica of a Japanese military uniform at a night market.

And earlier last month, people who wore rainbow print clothing were denied entry to a concert by Taiwanese singer Chang Hui-mei in Beijing.

"To wear a kimono is to hurt the feelings of the Chinese nation, to eat Japanese food is to jeopardise its spirit? When did the feelings and spirit of the time-tested Chinese nation become so fragile?" wrote one popular social commentator online, who writes under the pen name Wang Wusi.

The draft law is but one example of how Chinese President Xi Jinping has sought to redefine what makes a model Chinese citizen since he rose to leadership in 2012.

In 2019, his Chinese Communist Party issued "morality guidelines" which include directives like being polite, traveling with a lower carbon footprint, and having "faith" in Mr Xi and the party.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-66737272

This law seeks to ban people from wearing kimonos in public. A woman wore a kimono to take pictures at the Nanjing War Memorial and caused a lot of controversy on Chinese social media. A lot of people angry and some defending her. This law is probably the response.

The Chinese constitution protects the fundamental rights of all Chinese to not be offended.

The law probably will not pass and will be widely ignored even if it somehow does. That it is even being considered shows that Chinese and American politicians aren't so different - even Chinese politicians like an easy and dumb culture war win.

[JohnRawls]

This law seeks to ban people from wearing kimonos in public. A woman wore a kimono to take pictures at the Nanjing War Memorial and caused a lot of controversy on Chinese social media. A lot of people angry and some defending her. This law is probably the response.

The Chinese constitution protects the fundamental rights of all Chinese to not be offended.

The law probably will not pass and will be widely ignored even if it somehow does. That it is even being considered shows that Chinese and American politicians aren't so different - even Chinese politicians like an easy and dumb culture war win.

I asked in TLDR but can you explain the new Chinese espionage law also and what are the problems with it?

[Fasces]

I asked in TLDR but can you explain the new Chinese espionage law also and what are the problems with it?

I haven't heard of it. No traction among foreigners in China, not a concern. The problems appear to be hypothetical by the article. This new law may, this new law could, etc.

Under the revised law, "relying on espionage organizations and their agents" as well as the unauthorized obtaining of "documents, data, materials, and items related to national security and interests" can constitute a spying offense.

Beijing insists it has the right to "safeguard its national security through legislation" and says it will "uphold the rule of law."

But experts have warned that the changes could sweep up those with even tenuous links to organizations accused of spying.

[...]

But its vague definition of espionage and national security gives authorities a wider berth, he added, and will likely have a "chilling effect on Chinese citizens who have contact with foreigners and foreign organizations."

The new revisions have ruffled feathers among the business community, with companies fearing even tighter scrutiny.

The changes "have raised legitimate concerns about conducting certain routine business activities, which now risk being considered espionage," Craig Allen, president of the US-China Business Council, wrote in a recent blog.

"Confidence in China's market will suffer further if the law is applied frequently and without a clear, narrow and direct link to activities universally recognized as espionage," wrote Allen.

Diplomatic officials from several countries have also sounded alarm bells ahead of the legal changes, urging citizens in China to be vigilant.

The U.S. State Department said the law will "greatly expand the scope of what [Beijing] considers espionage activities."

The law, which bans the transfer of information related to national security and interests which it does not specify, has alarmed the United States, saying foreign companies in China could be punished for regular business activities.

The revised law allows authorities carrying out an anti-espionage probe to gain access to data, electronic equipment, and information on personal property.

Its boilerplate VOA propoganda. A lot of conjecture but nothing concrete. China makes it easy for them, as Beijing deliberately governs in a vague way to allow local municipalities to interpret the law in their own way, but it seems like a nothingburger.

[JohnRawls]

I haven't heard of it. No traction among foreigners in China, not a concern. The problems appear to be hypothetical by the article. This new law may, this new law could, etc.



Its boilerplate VOA propoganda. A lot of conjecture but nothing concrete. China makes it easy for them, as Beijing deliberately governs in a vague way to allow local municipalities to interpret the law in their own way, but it seems like a nothingburger.

I think that the negative context were more related to investment in to China instead of problem for foreigners in the country. Something like that.

[Fasces]

I think that the negative context were more related to investment in to China instead of problem for foreigners in the country. Something like that.

Sure, but nothing has happened yet.

[Puffer Fish]

The law probably will not pass and will be widely ignored even if it somehow does.

There are many laws that go widely ignored in China, or usually go ignored. Except in some situations they do not.
With an endless number of controlling laws that almost always go unenforced and are ignored, government officials easily have the legal means to go after someone when they feel there is a strong reason to.

As just one example, theoretically it is illegal to be a member of any Protestant denomination in China that is not under the umbrella of the "Three-Self Patriotic Movement" organization which is under the direct control of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP), and subject to all sorts of ridiculous rules like mandatory CCP propaganda. Of course the government is most often reluctant to strictly enforce it, or if they do they'll usually only go after leaders of a big church they are worried is becoming too influential, or use it against protesters, if the people were organized by a religious group.

Another law that usually goes widely ignored is that VPNs, which help ensure internet privacy, are illegal.
There have been a few prosecutions.

[Puffer Fish]

This law seeks to ban people from wearing kimonos in public.

One use of the law will likely be to arrest people who are not wearing gender-appropriate clothing. Won't be so good for cross-dressers and trannies.

There are several videos that have been going around of Chinese police officers stopping men, who were outside in public wearing a woman's dress, and lecturing and berating them that what they were doing was inappropriate and hurtful to society.

[B0ycey]

One use of the law will likely be to arrest people who are not wearing gender-appropriate clothing. Won't be so good for cross-dressers and trannies.

It helps right?

Think the Global South looks at the West and is putting in measures it wouldn't normally do so it doesn't meet the same fate. I see the law passing but not really being adhered to unless the cross dressing rainbow flag wavers come out disrupting peoples daily commute.

[Fasces]

@Puffer Fish VPNs aren't illegal. Chinese business depends on using VPNs. Using a VPN to access illegal material such as porn, or perform illegal things, is illegal. Using VPNs that don't share information with Chinese authorities is also illegal.

[Puffer Fish]

@Puffer Fish VPNs aren't illegal. Chinese business depends on using VPNs. Using a VPN to access illegal material such as porn, or perform illegal things, is illegal. Using VPNs that don't share information with Chinese authorities is also illegal.

That kind of defeats the whole point of VPNs in China, doesn't it?

That's like saying beer is legal, so long as it doesn't contain alcohol.
Homosexuality is legal, so long as it does not involve sex.
Abortion is legal, so long as it does not involve killing of a foetus. And so on.