[Ombrageux]

I imagine you also want to abolish the neoliberal construct that is France?

By that I mean, you would only want goods made in a French town to be sold in that particular town?

[arcis]

By that I mean, you would only want goods made in a French town to be sold in that particular town?

No.
By that I mean, the worker east europe should get his just share of the price of the goods which are sold in west europe on west european price level.

The skyrocketing profits of the neoliberal cronies, which are caused by the sale of the over-priced east european products, belong to the worker of east europe.

[Ombrageux]

By that I mean, the worker east europe should get his just share of the price of the goods which are sold in west europe on west european price level.

The skyrocketing profits of the neoliberal cronies, which are caused by the sale of the over-priced east european products, belong to the worker of east europe.

The East Europeans are getting jobs, without the EU's liberalism they would be jobless. Call that oppression if you want. Second, there is no east or west European level, there is the market. People will pay for a product and earn a wage dependent on if people want that product or labour. No more, no less.

Second, you have still not explained why you would allowed Marseilles' goods to be sold in Paris at the Parisian level when Marseilles has lower living costs.

[arcis]

The East Europeans are getting jobs, without the EU's liberalism they would be jobless.

http://www.forbes.com/home/feeds/ap/200 ... 10918.html

Of course they get jobs. But their bosses are sitting e.g. in Wolfsburg. Btw, do you know the history of "Wolfsburg". It is a quite interesting one. In Czechia they have to ask for everything the bosses in the west european head quarters. I am quite sure, as soon as the honeymoon is over, there will be massive problems. If a french company fires french workers than it is a domestic issue. But if a german conpany from "Wolfsburg" (!) fires 5000 worker in Mlada Boleslav the whole story turns very quickly into a nationalistic issue. The enlargement of the EU is not a healthy self-contained growth of the eastern economies. It is a mere economic take over by the west.

Second...

I don`t talk about a living cost ratio of 1/1.5 but about raios of 1/10.

[Epicure]

I just heard a 30 minutes debate on France Inter's Respublica concerning the constitution.

The debate was Opposing two MP of the EP :
Jean-Luc Bénabias, Les Verts, Group of the Greens/European Free Alliance
Marine Le Pen, Front National, non afiliated at the European Parliament.

I have to say the Bénabias was very, very, extremely good. Marine Le Pen too, in her own way ( )

I think I have found the way to make the "yes" win : We just need to show, either Sovereignists, or fascists like the Front National on TV to represent the "no". They defend the yes very well.

[Ombrageux]

I don`t talk about a living cost ratio of 1/1.5 but about raios of 1/10.

Who cares? It's still just as relevant. Fact is, you have no idea how you want your economy to look like. Except, perhaps, an economy under masses of legislation and with backward piss-in-the-wind minimum-wage/maximum-work policies that only cause inflation.

Eastern Europe will get lots of investment, then they will get richer, then their living costs will go up and they will be rich like us. It's worked in Spain, Japan and other countries, you're just trying to force some naïve inflationary logic on the market.

[arcis]

... they will be rich like us

No.

We will be poor like them.
You should know better, don't you?

[Ombrageux]

I should know better? These are basic economic transitions. Every industrialised nation in the world went through a period of poor workers and sweatshops. It happened to the UK, to Japan, to Korea and is happening in China and Malaysia. It will happen to Eastern Europe to.

This is no banana republic in Eastern Europe. This is structure funds and consistent free trade that goes both ways. You can believe your nationalist inflationary statist crap, I don't.

[Clansman]

New polls boost French yes hopes
02.05.2005 - 09:49 CET | By Honor Mahony

EUOBSERVER / BRUSSELS - Two new polls have sparked optimism that the yes side may be regaining the edge in the debate about the European Constitution in France.

Conducted over the weekend, one poll gave the yes side a majority, showing 52 per cent in favour, while the second showed that the percentage of those in favour of the Constitution had risen by four points to 48 per cent.

This is the first time in six weeks that the yes camp has gained any ground with the last series of surveys consistently showing the no side ahead.

The possibility that France may reject the Constitution at the end of this month has struck fear into the heart of the Brussels establishment, which has taken to putting controversial issues on the backburner for fear of upsetting fragile French sentiment ahead of the vote.

A no would also be a huge political embarrassment to president Jacques Chirac who has started to campaign actively in favour of the document.

In mid-April, he took part in a televised debate with French youngsters to try and re-connect with the public.

And last week, Mr Chirac was able to use the maiden flight of the Airbus A380, the biggest air passenger carrier in the world and built in Toulouse, as an example of the benefits of co-operation in the EU.

Other French politicians have also been active.

Last week, former Socialist prime minister Lionel Jospin entered the fray in favour of the Constitution.

There have also been numerous predictions of what a French no would mean for Europe.

Last week, the vice-president of the European Commission, Franco Frattini said a no from the French would be more serious than a no from UK citizens.

He also indicated that the Constitution would have to be re-negotiated - an option that has been rejected by the current head of the EU, Luxembourg's prime minister Jean-Claude Juncker.

Portugal to go ahead despite French no
But while it is reported that the UK's Tony Blair would gladly abandon next year's planned referendum if France were to say no, other countries have said they will go ahead anyway.

Portugal's foreign minister Diogo Freitas do Amaral told Portuguese radio on Saturday (30 April) that his country would carrry on with its referendum - the date has yet to be decided - regardless of how France votes, reports AFP.

Ireland has taken the same position. In April, prime minister Bertie Ahern told the Irish parliament the government would hold a referendum next year on the Constitution even if other countries reject it.

Similarly, the Netherlands is expected to go ahead with its referendum which comes just two days after France’s poll, on 1 June.

*The poll putting the yes side in the majority (52 per cent) was carried out by TNS-Sofres and Unilog for Le Monde, while the other poll which put the yes side at 48 per cent was carried out by Ifop for the Sunday newspaper, Journal du Dimanche.

http://www.euobserver.com/?sid=9&aid=18973

Well, well, well. Seems the French aren't so scared as people thought. If this trend continues, and I see no reason why it wont, we may very well see a French "Oui". If that happens then I reckon the Dutch will also yes, and it appears there is a majority for in Danmark as well. That just leaves , the Czechs, the Brits, and the Poles to throw spanners in the works. Though it looks like the Czechs definitely will say No, I reckon the Poles will ratify one way or another, which just leaves the Brits. But I am getting ahead of myself here.

Interesting that everyone has said they will go ahead with their referenda even if France says "non". If enough of them voted yes this would just compound the problems of France.

[Clansman]

The tide does seem to be on the turn, and still with three weeks to go.

es 'leads' in French EU campaign
A woman walks past posters calling for a Yes vote on the ratification of the European constitution, in the streets of Bayonne, south-western France
The Yes vote has taken the lead for the first time in weeks
Two polls in France suggest the Yes campaign in the EU referendum has taken the lead for the first time in weeks, but others still put the No vote ahead.

President Jacques Chirac is to appear on television later on Tuesday to appeal to the French people directly to vote Yes at the end of the month.

Major political figures on the left and right are now backing the Yes campaign.

Both sides still have everything to play for, with about 25% of the French still undecided, correspondents say.

The latest opinion polls in France are contradictory, with some showing the No vote narrowly in the lead, but others suggest that the Yes campaign is finally gaining ground, says the BBC's Caroline Wyatt in Paris.

QUICK GUIDE

The EU constitution

A CSA poll for Le Parisien newspaper on Tuesday shows 51% intending to vote for the treaty, while an Ipsos poll for the newspaper Le Figaro and radio Europe 1 on Monday showed 53% of voters in favour of the treaty.

But a Louis Harris poll for newspaper Liberation on Monday showed 51% of voters still intending to vote against the treaty, while a BVA poll for L'Express magazine, also on Monday, put the No vote at 52%.

Twenty-five consecutive polls have pointed to a No vote, putting the opposition at between 51% and 62%.

Chirac appeal

Mr Chirac is to appear on French TV on Tuesday at 2015 (1815 GMT), in a direct appeal to French voters to approve the EU constitution in the referendum on 29 May.

FRENCH EU POLLS
3 May: 51% Yes, 49% No (CSA for Le Parisien)
2 May: 48% Yes, 52% No (BVA for L'Express)
2 May: 53% Yes, 47% No (Ipsos polling group for Le Figaro/Europe 1)
2 May: 49% Yes, 51% No (Louis Harris for Liberation, Yahoo!, i-TELE)
30 Apr: 52% Yes, 48% No (TNS-Sofres/Unilog for Le Monde/RTL/LCI)
The previous 25 polls between 15 March and 29 April showed a majority for the No vote

His last such appearance in April in a staged debate with students failed to impress the voters, but this time he is hoping to persuade them that the EU constitution is good for France and good for Europe, our correspondent says.

Many French trade unions fear the constitution enshrines an "ultra-liberal" Anglo-Saxon style economic model - seen as very different from the French social model - while others believe the treaty seriously threatens France's sovereignty.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4508617.stm

[arcis]

And what is the worth of a "Oui", which is the result of mass manipulation und an expensive brainwashing campaign? It is just another nice example and evidence of what Bruessels thinks about the ordinary european Joe.

[Ombrageux]

What are you talking about?

Brussels has no hand in the current debate in France. Like any other debate, different parties are advertising their points of view, putting propaganda posters ranging from the mainstream parties' 'oui' to the FN's and Far Left's 'non'.

There's no manipulation as you put it, it's a bloody vote, show that the vote-counting is being tampered with and you have a point.