Russia's life expectancy lower then in developed countries - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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By Shade2
#1129817
And yet the Poles were a prouder people back when Communism "oppressed" them

Its a common human trait that in face of opression people unite and are heroic putting aside their differences.
Why do you write opression in "" ? You believe murdering innocent people(like Polish teenage nurses which Soviets executed), torture, economic exploitation, putting people into jail for speaking freely isn't opression ?
User avatar
By Maxim Litvinov
#1129825
Aww, poor little Poles to be so "oppressed" by awful Russians with names like Gomu?ka, Gierek, Kania and Jaruzelski. :/

Cry me a river, Shade.
By Shade2
#1129832
Aww, poor little Poles to be so "oppressed" by awful Russians with names like Gomu?ka, Gierek, Kania and Jaruzelski. :/
Or names like Ivan Serov.
But yes fully independent politicians that after their own struggle for power won independent elections and certainly weren't puppets installed by Soviet Russia by terror and mass murder of resistance. And certainly in no way was their rule based on ten of thousands of Soviet soldiers that occupied Poland and were used to crush uprisings of Polish people.

Get real. Are you ignorant or trying to deny reality ? Do you think anybody is so stupid to fall for a few puppets Soviet Russia placed with polish sounding names as its proxies, some of whom actually had to change their names because they were so few Poles supporting communism and Belarussians(Mieczyslaw Moczar or Mikolai Demko as he orignally was named)or Jews had to be used as operatives ? Not to mentioning that real power was in hands of Soviet "advisors".
The only thing you showed is that Soviets were better at propaganda then Nazis and used puppets in areas they occupied.

http://www.warsawvoice.pl/archiwum.phtml/1653/
NKVD Gen. Ivan Serov was one of the main directors of Stalin's policy in Poland. He was involved in Polish affairs in 1940 in Lvov, where among other acts he prepared the arrest of Col. Leopold Okulicki, who was later sentenced in the trial of the 16-a show trial of the leaders of the Polish anti-communist underground held in Moscow. In 1944 Serov established apparently peaceful cooperation with AK troops in the Vilnius region, which several weeks later resulted in the imprisonment of these same troops. At the end of 1944, Serov operated from an office in Lublin, where a Soviet military court sentenced dozens of AK soldiers to death. Serov also appeared in the Warsaw area around this time, providing his personnel with lists of prisoners in whom he was particularly interested.
Last edited by Shade2 on 01 Mar 2007 08:36, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By droodle
#1129836
Russia holded on to state regulation, lack of freedom, militarism, colonialism


State regulation diminshed. The other three are as possible with capitalism as with communism (but not as likely).
By Lost Angel
#1130048
Russia is a country renowned for hard drinking. Alcoholism is a leading cause of death in Russia. Alcohol consumption has increased since 1991. Even the most ignorant people are aware of this.
Actually it did not increase, - at least from what I observe over last 7 years of yearly visits there - more people drink less out of the fear of loosing their jobs, whenever they get a better paid one, which is more often the case. But then again I can only speak for the major cities in the West. As for the mortality - hell knows... I have an impression that there are way more junkies now, though.
User avatar
By Vladimir
#1130084
Shade2
It's funny to talk with you :lol:
Anyway,
Russia continued to hold on to state regulations, militarism, lack of freedom. This was a mistake.

This is not a mistake, but the only way.

---

The point of this topic...? Demographic problems in Russia are a well known fact.

Once things stabilise and improve (in time), life expectancy will go up.
Don't hold hopes that Russia will stay in bad condition forever. In time, we will grow to former strength, and will be back to occupy and oppress you in no time :muha1:


By the way, what is the source for the data of polish life expectancy?
User avatar
By Thunderhawk
#1130310
Vladimir wrote:
Russia continued to hold on to state regulations, militarism, lack of freedom. This was a mistake.

This is not a mistake, but the only way.



Eh?
:eh:


Are you saying oppressing freedom is the only way for Russia?

The only way that works?
The only way that Russians deserve?
or something else?
By Lost Angel
#1130317
Polish men live about as long as Chinese men.
Yeah, they even look a bit the same ,)
Are you saying oppressing freedom is the only way for Russia?
Weird statement - frankly Russians are not any more oppressed than their Western counterparts - crime rate is very high though. I believe though, he meant state regulation, which is better for Russia, since after commie times people tend to not think about the good of the country/community, but rather how to grab quick cash and run before commies/gangsters come by and grab it. With this mentality a stronger state is needed to consolidate people a bit and to weed out the bad guys - they aren't going to disappear to another country (though some did, like Beresovsky for example)...
The only way that works?
Animals live longer in the Zoo comparing to "the wild" if we want to bring in this argument at all. Russians also live longer abroad.
The only way that Russians deserve?
Russians deserve a candy ,)
User avatar
By Vladimir
#1130435
Are you saying oppressing freedom is the only way for Russia?

The only way that works?
The only way that Russians deserve?
or something else?

Lost Angel is more or less right; too add, though:
Russian people need s strong state to govern us, one which does not allow any serious opposition, or any manifestation of "free" public activity. In the broadest sense of this.
You see, as long as it remains this way - russians will obey support the state. And will be quite happy with this. However, once anything at all is weakened - severe tendencies for disorder begin, which are very harmful to our country. Russian are paradoxical, we combine the ability to obey perfectly, and to create the most terrible disorder. Not much room between those, either.
Also, in our feelings toward power - unless the state strongly and uncompromisingly legitimises itself, we will not trust or respect it at the practical level. Meaning, although we will accept it as power for a long time, and view it as a master, we will not obey it at a practical level, and will not respect it. The best recent example is USSR - practically everyone supported the state, and all of it's activities (there was discontent with very separate parts of it, e.g. local officials), but supported and obeyed it as a whole - in our view, state = country = motherland = the people, etc, etc. However, as soon as the state undermined itself in the form of Gorbachev - the frenzy of disorder began, starting from the severe liberalist views expressed directly through mass information a few years before the collapse, to the rampant law of the jungle after the collapse.
And we will not function well as a society until a strong and all-powerful state is installed. This is why people support Putin so much now, but still view him as a temporary figure, as the times are still not ordered, and the state is not present in affairs as strongly and omnipotently as it should.
We do not value freedom, in the sense you speak of it, in any way. I will give away any kind of this freedom I have now just to, say, have a secure pension guaranteed at retirement.
Our understanding of freedom lies in an omnipotent and benevolent state, which can forge and maintain an empire.
Only in this lies our wealth and prosperity.

Heh, you know, it's difficult to fully explain, I hope you understand some things though...
There’s a good saying we have – “give freedom to a Russian muzhik (man), and he’ll screw your head off”.

And when the state is not legitimate enough - then, a russian revolt grows - slowly, but when it errupts, there will be chaos... Another good saying, about this matter: "Russia smoulders slowly, burns quickly"...
By Shade2
#1131448
You see, as long as it remains this way - russians will obey support the state.

The best recent example is USSR


Well there is a certain problem in the fact USSR included non-Russians. Or are you saying Estonians, Ukrainians, Georgians are Russians ?
User avatar
By Thunderhawk
#1131707
He didnt say non-Russians would obey or like the USSR, he said Russians would/did obey and to a certain extent like the USSR.
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