[JohnRawls]

How is it even fake news? It's just bullshit. It's also not fake news that Guy Verhofstadt calls for NATO intervention in Hungary because there's no such news, it's bullshit.

Well, okay. Foxdemon is fake news.

[fokker]

The same goes for the Eastern European strongmen. By trying to force unpopular policies onto countries like Hungry and Poland, the EU is just strengthening those strongmen’s domestic support. In effect by trying to uneemoncraticly force policy onto those countries, they are aiding the decline of democracy in Eastern Europe, then cited that outcome as a justification for intervention.

It's not just the topic of immigration, but also bioethanol in fuel (E5, E10 since 2019), push to reduce CO2 emissions from new cars by 40% by 2030 and similar ideas. After the next EU elections there will be lot of new eurosceptic MPs. Politicians like Merkel, Verhofstadt, Junker are very unpopular.

[Beren]

Well, okay. Foxdemon is fake news.

I just wonder how many of them there are here. I tend to believe they're more numerous than the real ones and the site would be dead without them.

[Rugoz]

It's not just the topic of immigration, but also bioethanol in fuel (E5, E10 since 2019), push to reduce CO2 emissions from new cars by 40% by 2030 and similar ideas. After the next EU elections there will be lot of new eurosceptic MPs. Politicians like Merkel, Verhofstadt, Junker are very unpopular.

Hungary is one of 28 members and it's tiny. You cannot join of club of comparatively liberal countries and then complain about its liberal policies.

[fokker]

Hungary is one of 28 members and it's tiny. You cannot join of club of comparatively liberal countries and then complain about its liberal policies.

Its more than 1 tiny country that is unhappy. V4 countries didn't join EU to have its liberal policies imposed on them. Britain is leaving as EU is deeply unpopular there.

[Dude Life]

Hello I am new.

I do not believe Hungary should be invaded or kicked out of the EU.

However the current state of the EU is unsustainable and works in Germany's interest. They need to reform the EU according to Macron's ideas. To create a eurozone budget and create a eurozone wide economic policy.

Germany is reluctant to tie themselves deeper to less productive economies in the EU.

As for Hungary and other non eurozone members they can be left to their own devices until the eurozone mess is straightened out and Germany stops kicking the can down the road.

The EU has expanded too fast before the union was secured in the original core countries. Response to the economic crisis have only helped the wealthy as has been the case throughout the developed world.

Hungary is a minor issue I think.

[Ter]

They need to reform the EU according to Macron's ideas.

Macron is a globalist. He is swimming against the tide.
His popularity is already down, his ideas will get no traction in the current EU climate of discontent.

[Dude Life]

Well if that is the way that the trends are going perhaps it would be best if Italy, Greece and Malta leave the eurozone and create new individual currencies. No sense propping up the German economy at the cost of your own nation.

The EU will probably fall apart but it was put together in a haphazard way in the first place. The rotten foundation is there let's destroy the whole building. I am ready for some change.

If reform is off the table let us rethink it all.

[B0ycey]

Macron is a globalist. He is swimming against the tide.
His popularity is already down, his ideas will get no traction in the current EU climate of discontent.

Macron is a revolutionary and his ideas are the only way forward for Europe. He perhaps is too ahead for his time. But his vision is the only sustainable way forward for the EU. History will look favorably on Macron I have no doubt about that. And should Europe embrace his vision, it has the ability to be as great as Russia, China and the US, if not greater. And when the continent becomes great, the UK will crawl back to the club. I sense it.

[Beren]

Macron is a realist advocating a multi-speed Europe which is a reality anyway.

[fokker]

Some economists think the next global economic crisis will be worse than the last one. Central banks lowered interest rates to 0 which resulted in slight recovery but bubbles on housing and stock market. Debt level has increased - Spain 99% GDP, Italy 132%, Greece 180%. Countries will either go bankrupt (better option) or be stagnant for many decades. This is how EU could disintegrate. There was time when Europe was once great - and that was in the past. People need to get more realistic.

[Zionist Nationalist]

Europe is on decline

They have right now a temporary economic boost thanks to immigration but it will end at one point either Europe will be taken over by Immigrants or it will have to stop immigration from Africa/Asia to save their identity

[B0ycey]

Some economists think the next global economic crisis will be worse than the last one. Central banks lowered interest rates to 0 which resulted in slight recovery but bubbles on housing and stock market. Debt level has increased - Spain 99% GDP, Italy 132%, Greece 180%. Countries will either go bankrupt (better option) or be stagnant for many decades. This is how EU could disintegrate. There was time when Europe was once great - and that was in the past. People need to get more realistic.

The fate of the Euro will be a currency union of equal reliability. But Germany remains reluctant. But once they run out of options to save it when the next crisis occurs, even they will come around and see sense. And then a united Europe will become a formality.

And @Zionist Nationalist, Europe isn't declining. It is uniting. It isn't like Israel where it depends on US money to exist. It is collectively the biggest market on the planet. So it should start acting like it is rather than fighting internally for individual interests. It should look after the interest of the collective. And that is budget, military, justice and social reform. Obran just needs to see sense.

[Beren]

There was time when Europe was once great - and that was in the past. People need to get more realistic.

People need to get more reactionary realistic and disintegrate the EU, which is supposed to make Europe great again somehow, and start world wars again perhaps to make it even greater as it happened in the time when Europe was once great. Greatest platform ever!

[One Degree]

The title of this thread makes me wonder if the EU is just repeating the US. The desire for power hidden by self righteous platitudes used war to turn a confederation into a federation. I don’t doubt the EU would use military power to keep its members in line. That is how it always works. History does indeed repeat itself.

[Ter]

The argument that without the EU, European countries will start wars amongst each other is a very weak argument, hilariously so.
Who is going to fight who ?
Anyway, doing away with the political objectives of the EU will go a long way to alleviate the concerns of the Euro-sceptic countries.
And the Brussels apparatchiks should stop trying to impose immigration quota on countries that do not want those immigrants.

[Beren]

The argument that without the EU, European countries will start wars amongst each other is a very weak argument, hilariously so.

Th real weak argument, hilariously so, is that disintegrating the EU would make Europe great somehow. I also wonder, although it's rather obvious, whether what he means by the time when Europe was once great.

[B0ycey]

Anyway, doing away with the political objectives of the EU will go a long way to alleviate the concerns of the Euro-sceptic countries.

Who are these so called Euro-sceptic countries? Although it is clear even Hungary doesn't want to leave the EU btw. They are more than welcome to activate Article 50 if they want to leave and deal with the consequences. So perhaps think before you type.

And the Brussels apparatchiks should stop trying to impose immigration quota on countries that do not want those immigrants.

Quotas isn't causing Hungarys problems FYI. Although any migrants are welcome to leave Hungary and head somewhere else if they were granted Asylum btw.

And from what I have been reading, the EU is now taking economic migrants very seriously. It is a misnomer to think they are getting a free lunch. Just right wing propaganda to justify their extreme views as always.

But sure. Just Jews being Jews and forgetting history was once against them migrating into Europe and settling with the freedom of religion.

[Beren]

I'm sure the biggest and most eurosceptic country leaving the EU is a huge blow to the EU and a big win for Eurosceptics in the long term too.

[Ter]

Who are these so called Euro-sceptic countries? Although it is clear even Hungary doesn't want to leave the EU btw.

Where did I write they want to leave the EU?
The fact of the matter is that Hungary, Poland, Italy and a couple of other Euro-sceptic countries will resist Brussels in so many ways that the EU becomes practically ungovernable.
So perhaps think before you type.

And from what I have been reading, the EU is now taking economic migrants very seriously. It is a misnomer to think they are getting a free lunch. Just right wing propaganda to justify their extreme views as always.

Oh I see. What percentage are economic migrants? They have all been tutored to say they are being tortured in their home countries so they became political asylum seekers.
And now that the civil war in Syria is coming to an end, will that million Syrians in Germany and Sweden go back home? What do you think ?

But sure. Just Jews being Jews and forgetting history was once against them migrating into Europe and settling with the freedom of religion.

Why did you bring Jews in this discussion ?