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User avatar
By Dave
#1838397
Tennis? You could still have national sports teams, like the United Kingdom does (England and Scotland have separate teams). The Greco-Turkish population exchange created a lot of hardship, and similar events, like the expulsion of Germans from Eastern Europe, or the ongoing ethnic cleansing of whites in Africa, have been less than pleasant to the say the least. The distributed populations of the Balkans make some form of cooperation necessary, and this kind of ethnonational confederal arrangement would allow for all peoples to have an independent national life while cooperating on matters of shared interest. And given the voluntary and gradual population exchange program, it would be a vehicle for true national independence for all the peoples in the region without the animosity, hardship, and international revile forced exchanges would generate. Cooperation on this basis would also give you some common interests and experience in peaceful cooperation, so maybe once national independence was truly achieved for all groups maybe you guys would hate each other just a little bit less. ;)
User avatar
By Subversive Rob
#1838710
Whilst this is obviously a contentious area please keep things civil. I've deleted some posts verging on personal attacks or on being off-topic.
User avatar
By Bosnjak
#1838714
@Dave nice Idea, but they do not want this, they want not, they want to keep our homes and our property and to unite with Serbia. We want one man one vote, simply democracy.

Look the bosnians slowly moved to cities and the serb immigrants worked on the Farms, the Urban and Industrialised Areas were Bosnians the Majority.

We can never ever give this land away, now is for only to say one example: Srebrenica is now mostly Serbian, they simply killed 7000 males from the age of 12 Years, women were raped. For our luck come not many children to the world from raped women, has something to do with stress, we had enough doctors to abbort (we were not a 3rd world nation we had also the olympics 84 in Sarajewo). This nice People killed even the children and women from mixed couples, a Commie friend of my Dad who was in the millitary and Serb changed the Sides because he had the order to show his Loyality to Serbia when he kills his non-Serbian Wife. He changed simply the sides, now are they our people, our brothers in arms.
User avatar
By pikachu
#1838832
Population exchange is not really necessary because the ethnic groups now form fairly distinct geographical entities as a result of the 1991-1995 war. Especially in the case of Serbs - they are very much grouped together now in the Bosnia's territorial subunit (RS), plus some adjacent territory which isn't part of the RS. The reason why this extra territory remains separate from RS is partly to serve as a punishment to the Serbs for ethnically cleansing Eastern Bosnia.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... 2006aa.PNG

Anyway, Serbs do not want any population exchange, they just want independence. Bosniaks and Croats could use some form of population exchange, but only if they were really determined on separating, which they aren't thus far.
Last edited by pikachu on 19 Mar 2009 00:21, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By Independent_Srpska
#1838842
I would argue for Gentelmen Agreements, like the Turks and Greeks had, they simply exchanged the others populations, also serbs to Serbia, Bosnians from Serbia to Bosnia.


Well, first of all there is no such a thing like "bosnians" , indeed....it means nothing....

Second of all - for sure there is NO any "bosnian" in Serbia.

Third of all Serbs are a couple of millenniums longer on the soil of today's Bosnia and Hercegovina then Converted Serbs (who started to emerge in this region when western Europe started kicking back retrograde Ottomans from European countries (16/17th century)...)

So, only thing we can speak about is sending converted Serbs (i.e. BH-Muslims) to Anatolia where they mostly came from, they were guests in Europe too long....

The region once upon time called Bosnia is a Serb land...Hercegovina is still a Serb land (larger - eastern part)...so, Serbs are home in the Union of REpublika Srpska and Muslim-Croat-Federation.....
-
The only one who could go from Bosnia and Hercegovina is the one who latest came - and lady history says that Muslims emerged the latest in Bosnia and Hercegovina :)


@Dave nice Idea, but they do not want this, they want not, they want to keep our homes and our property and to unite with Serbia. We want one man one vote, simply democracy.


:lol: What is your property, buddy? :D Those 20% of ex-SRBiH you have illegally seceded from Yugoslavia - without NATO your theft could have been awarded properly....:)

Look the bosnians slowly moved to cities and the serb immigrants worked on the Farms, the Urban and Industrialised Areas were Bosnians the Majority.


Kind of a contradiction, buddy :D....Serbs were here couple of millenniums before Ottomans and their product: Converted Serbs...so, the immigrant status could be given only to Ottomans and their offspring....quite logical, I would say....

We can never ever give this land away, now is for only to say one example: Srebrenica is now mostly Serbian, they simply killed 7000 males from the age of 12 Years, women were raped.


Well, the whole Bosnia and Hercegovina was Christian mostly till 15th century...and then Turks came, and then they started with rapings, killings, taking away children ...all sort of misdids that change ethnic look of today's Bosnia and Hercegovina....

In fact till 1867 the Serbs were majority in Srebrenica. But then with expulsion of Turks and Converts from Serbia (after series of Serbs' uprisings in Serbia) those runaways settled down in area of Srebrenica and Zepa and they started to kill local Serbs in revenge for happenings in Serbia (Muslims could do that because Srebrenica at that time was still under Turkish rule)....but the crucial change of ethnic picture in Srebrenica happened in 1942. during WWII when local Muslims altogether with NDH-Ustashas executed more than 4.000 Serbs in a couple of days....
BTW, in 19th century in one of those Turk-Convert waves from Serbia to Hercegovina and to Bosnia - grandfather of Alija Izetbegovic came from Belgrade to Srpski Samac.

For our luck come not many children to the world from raped women, has something to do with stress, we had enough doctors to abbort (we were not a 3rd world nation we had also the olympics 84 in Sarajewo).


OMG. Are you shamed of yourself? It's kind of sick to lie such a disturbed things....Anyway, do you remember that "case" of rapping when Muslim-woman was allegedly raped by Serbs....and after couple of months she gave a birth to the black baby :)....there were some UNPROFOR soldiers around ;)

This nice People killed even the children and women from mixed couples, a Commie friend of my Dad who was in the millitary and Serb changed the Sides because he had the order to show his Loyality to Serbia when he kills his non-Serbian Wife. He changed simply the sides, now are they our people, our brothers in arms.


:lol: OMG :lol:
User avatar
By Bosnjak
#1838918
@Serbs belive what you want, but you serbs have an extreme tendency to falsificate history, you live in your own world, and true history does not interess you.

The Bosnian Church:

Bosnia was on the boundary between the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches. The Croats to the West and Hungarians to the North embraced Roman Catholicism, while the lands to the east and small southeastern parts of Herzegovina embraced Eastern Orthodoxy. The religious centre of the Bosnian Church was placed in Moštre, near Visoko, where the house of krstjani was founded[1].

During the later Middle Ages most of Bosnia was nominally Roman Catholic as well, but no accurate figures exist as to the numbers of adherents of the two churches. The Bosnian Church coexisted uneasily with Roman Catholicism for much of the later Middle Ages. Part of the resistance of the Bosnian Church was political; during the 14th century, the Roman Church placed Bosnia under a Hungarian bishop, and the schism may have been motivated by a desire for independence from Hungarian domination. Several Bosnian rulers were Krstjani, but some of them embraced Roman Catholicism for political reasons.

Outsiders accused the Bosnian Church of links to the Patarene heresy, and to the Bogomils, a Manichean sect centered in Bulgaria. The Inquisition reported about a dualist sect in Bosnia in the late 15th century and called them "Bosnian heretics", but this sect was according to some historians most likely not the same as the Bosnian Church. The historian Franjo Rački wrote about this in 1869 based on Latin sources.


It is thought today that the Krstjani, who were persecuted by both the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches, accounted for the major part of Bosnia's converts to Islam. Some historians now believe that the Bosnian Church had largely disappeared before the Turkish conquest in 1463.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_Church





The division of the christian Churches was exactly on Balkan, in Bosnia was the line between east and west, therefore could this christian sekts survive, because the Kings declared them officialy as catholics or were catholics, this is not clear, but they allowed religous freedom: The Bosnian Church, was present in Bosnia and gave also asylum to Katharians from other european countries where they were slaughted,


The dualistic christian Sekt whad some extreme traditions like suicide... they preached also that the last Prophet will come, as the Turks came with prophet Mohamed a.s. who is the next prophet after Jesus / Isa a.s. the secterians converted to Islam.


@Serbs did you know that not all Serbian Kings were Orthodox?

Sveti Sava 1219 who crowned the Serbian King this thime with Orthodox Ritus before was the Serbian King krowned with Catholic Ritus.

1220 folgte die zweite Rückkehr des Sava nach Serbien, diesmal als Erzbischof von Serbien, begleitet von den fähigsten Athos-Mönchen. Dem konnte sich selbst König Stefan nicht widersetzen, oder er wollte es gar nicht. Zu Pfingsten 1221 wurde eine Volksversammlung berufen und Sava als Erzbischof bestätigt. Sava krönte danach seinen Bruder ein zweites Mal zum König, diesmal nach orthodoxem Ritus.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sava_von_Serbien
¨

There is also a Serbian King in the 7th Century who was catholic



P.S. Bosnia was also under the rule or had to pay tribute of differnt Kings but the Power stayed by the Landlords what was common in Europe, the Kings were not so powerfull like the most think.


@Pikachu They lived allways in rural Areas, they will never get, because Serbia does also not support them honestly, Tadic uses RS only for pressure to get some part of Kosovo, which is economicaly much much more important then Farms, in a mountainous area.

Recent growth in this Frankensteins Monstrum of Dr. Karadzic, called RS happened only because Russia subsidised them, but now is an economical crisis also in Russia :)
User avatar
By noemon
#1839361
There is also a Serbian King in the 7th Century who was catholic


There was no such thing as catholic and orthodox in the 7th century, there was one single church, then. Until the 11th century there was one church and as such the appellations of catholic and orthodox do not apply until the schism and after that the Serbs were generally with the Ecumenical Patriarchate instead of the Latin one. During the 12th the 2 separate jurisdictions were both present albeit the it still was the same church until then, the only difference was on whether who would confirm the appointment of bishops(the Latin Patriarch[later known as Pope] or the Greek Patriarch and during the period from the schism until St Sava both would confirm bishops depending on the individual church) after Saint Sava, the jurisdiction of the Ecumenical patriarchate was cemented throughout the country indefinitely at the expense of the Latin one. The same would happen in Croatia, where the Latin jurisdiction cemented itself at the expense of the Greek one.
User avatar
By Independent_Srpska
#1839510
@Serbs belive what you want, but you serbs have an extreme tendency to falsificate history, you live in your own world, and true history does not interess you.


Well, my friend, Muslims history is based on the "believings", but the cure for the belief is a fact...so, if you have something to say - say it using facts....If you can't find appropriate fact to support your lousy theories - then you should try seeing the latest achievement by Islamic community in Western Sarajevo :D they might have come to some exquisite new historic theories :D like they have been serving to illiterate people ...

So called "Bosnian church" was NOT definitely under the Roman pope, that's a fact...so, we can for sure say it was not catholic church....but, on the other side, so called "Bosnian church" has all the characteristics of Eastern Church, it had a leader (Djed which is an equivalent to the Greek word Patriarch), people were buried in orthodox manner, language used in the church was Serbian (local language like it is in orthodox churches, not Latin like it was in Western Church), titles of the church leadership was following the organization pattern of Eastern church....In fact in southern parts of Serbia they even TODAY call the church leader - DED....so, the one shouldn't be a rocket scientist to realize under whose influence was formed so called "bosnian" church.....and SO WHAT?? What the church/religion does it say about ethnicity of the people??
You, Muslims from ex-Yugoslavia have distorted view on the issues of ethnicity versus religion. OK, we all know that your "nationality" is only based on the conversion from Christianity to Islam, but that's very special case. You are probably the only nation whose only national characteristic is religion i.e. in this specific case - it is Islam.

The division of the christian Churches was exactly on Balkan, in Bosnia was the line between east and west,,


This is a crap. Since the bishop in Bar (today's Montenegro) was under the influence of Rome , we can say the "border" between to churches was further to the east, though the black hole today called Bosnia and Hercegovina was not of really high importance to any of those churches, so the influence of the churches (Eastern and Western) was coming and going in waves...but anyway that's not of any importance in the context of ethnicity of the people in that region

@Serbs did you know that not all Serbian Kings were Orthodox?


:lol: I believe I told you this! No, my buddy, as I told you - ethnicity is one thing, but religion is completely other thing....in the real world it's not like Muslims think that Islam is arranging everything even ethnicity....
So, I told you days ago, that the founder of the greatest Serbian ruler family - Nemanjici - i.e. Nemanja was baptized in Catholic church...so, what? Believe it or not he is a Serb.....as same as your ancestor who switched to Islam - he was still a Serb :)...sorry...bad news for you I believe

There is also a Serbian King in the 7th Century who was catholic


:lol: AT that time the church was not split ....your Islamic Community in West Sarajevo taught you wrongly....you should request reimbursement

@Pikachu They lived allways in rural Areas, they will never get, because Serbia does also not support them honestly, Tadic uses RS only for pressure to get some part of Kosovo, which is economicaly much much more important then Farms, in a mountainous area.


gee, what a nonsense....

Recent growth in RS happened only because Russia subsidised them, but now is an economical crisis also in Russia :)


:lol: just for the sake of truth - the only region in the artificial Union of Republika Srpska and MH-Fed Russia subsidizes is West Sarajevo....poor Muslims do not pay for Russian gas, because EU and USA stopped filling Muslim's budget...

No, my buddy, Republika Srpska economy grows (even in this time of world wide recession ) because Serbs work and we are not getting any help, on the contrary - we have many obstacles by EU/USA/NATO and Muslim part that prevent us to grow even faster.
On the other side - since the end of war Muslim part of Bosnia and Hercegovina NEVER had succeeded to execute its budget ! You lived all the time on the account of EU/USA tax payers.
Your Frankenstein organization of the entity (Muslim and Croats have like 11 governments and around 800 ministers :lol:) on 20.000 sq. meters :D wastes all your money and the money of USA/EU tax payers
In fact 90% of all the money that West sent to Bosnia and Hercegovina finished in the Muslim hands - some approximations say it was close to 10 billion Euros until the date, but yet, the Muslim part is close to disaster....

the last year news ---> Bosnia to face bankruptcy prospect by October ...the situation is way worse now ....

DDave3 mod note: After the number of complaints received, this is now a highly moderated thread.
User avatar
By Bosnjak
#1839570
@Srpska

1. Read my Signature about your truly history and genetical herritage :) You Serbs were Slaves of the Avars, the Croats freed you, but the Awars had a tradition to sleep with the womens of their slaves. We bosnians 55% and hercegovinians 65 % are mostly Illyrian Herritage, the Slawic genes come from the Croats, not from you because you have an much smaller R1a then we have. As the Awaro-Serbs invaded the roman Provinces Illyria and dalmatia and did robings rapings.... so the Croats were hired to end to stop this ethnic cleansing. The croats mixed also with the peoples they freed from Awarian slavery. Therefore are Serbs and Croats closer to each other then they are to Bosniaks and hercegovinians. The Germanic Genes come from the Goths who invaded the Balkan before, but they were civilised unlike the Eurasian Hordes.



2. This are credits not bailouts, therefore has the Federation debts, we took also in the War credits to survive. Gas we did not get because of Ukraine.

What is the average wage in the RS is lower as those in the Federation.

@Noemon but was not there a dispute who is the leading bishop, the of Byzantion or those of Rome?
User avatar
By Spike Spiegel
#1839592
What does it matter where they come from? Nations aren't based just on genes. If those studies proved anything, they proved nations are based on common culture, language, religion etc.

Read my Signature about your truly history and genetical herritage


You should read forum rules.

As for Bosnia and Herzegovina I don't see any point in keeping this federation together. Serbs should join Serbia and Croats should join Croatia, Bosniaks can have their own country. Biggest problem with this is drawing borders but I think you could reach an agreement in the next 15 years. Sooner or later BiH will dissolve and it's better they do it in front of court or with the help of some special envoy or with arbitration then with another bloody war.
User avatar
By Bosnjak
#1839604
They accuse us of beeing Turks or Serbs, it is my right to post proves that it is not so. I did nothing say that somebody is superior, only about the roots. The research proves also that all nations are mixed from different ethnic groups. I have friends from different races and from different cultures therefore I would not say that racial superiority exists.


Spiky did Abraham Lincoln let the Southern States go?

You have to see that the founder of the RS was caught, Dr. Karadzic he has now a process about genocide and crimes against humanity, the RS is a product of a genocide.
User avatar
By Spike Spiegel
#1839668
They accuse us of beeing Turks or Serbs, it is my right to post proves that it is not so.


So what. There's nothing wrong with Turks or Serbs. I don't see why you see that as an insult
or why Serbs think their genetic material really matters.
Spanish could argue that Cubans have Spanish genes, an therefore Cuba should still be a part of Spain.
I get your point though, cause some nationalist Serbs did try to create Greater Serbia on basis that Bosniaks and Croats are actually Serbs of different religion.

Also I don't remember accusing you of being racial supremacist.

You have to see that the founder of the RS was caught, Dr. Karadzic he has now a process about genocide and crimes against humanity, the RS is a product of a genocide.


Yes it is and it's borders need to be corrected. Still over 30% of BiH are Serbs who don't wanna be a part of BiH.
Over 15 % of Croats would rather be a part of Croatia. So 50% of population would rather be a part of different country.
The numbers are simply to large for Bosniaks to keep a country together. In the and you'll just have another war.
User avatar
By peter_co
#1839695
Yes it is and it's borders need to be corrected. Still over 30% of BiH are Serbs who don't wanna be a part of BiH.

I think what Bosnjak meant was not only that the current borders of RS, but also the ethnic composition of its districts was changed through ethnic cleansing. However, if BiH were to be taken apart, the most practical basis for separation would be on ethnic lines, and now you have the situation that this ethno-geographic distribution was achieved through some rather non-Kosher means. In other words, many of the districts were Serbs now form an absolute majority did not have absolute Serb majorities before the war, so the argument goes that the Serbs would in effect be rewarded for ethnic cleansing.

However, I still think this is the most reasonable arrangement. After all, ethnic cleansing was anything but one sided, and Bosniaks carried out similar actions against Serbs in other districts. In fact, the increase in the proportion of Serbs in what is currently RS was as much a consequence of non-Serbs leaving, as it was of Serb refugees settling from other regions (the Sarajevo peripheries for instance). And when one tries to sort through ethnic grievances this is a hopeless task, especially in an area with as "dynamic" a history as the Western Balkans. And while I'm generally opposed to the principle of self-determination and greatly favor upholding the principle of the territorial integrity of states, this latter principle has been all but abandoned in former Yugoslavia. In fact, the very independence of BiH was defended by UN mediators/NATO forces and the basis of self-determination, so it would be ridiculous and arbitrary to deny the Serbs who are now unwilling members of BiH the same right.
User avatar
By Independent_Srpska
#1839713
@Srpska

1. Read my Signature about your truly history and genetical herritage :) You Serbs were Slaves of the Avars


Well, you know that's crap, right? However, wherever Serbs came from (if they came from at all, whoever Serbs decent from (if they decent from at all) ) - the one thing is 100% sure ---> today's BH-Muslims are nothing but descendants of Serbs converted to Islam. It's a historic fact. So what?
So, whatever kind of the " gene analyzes " applies to Serbs - at the same time it applies to Yugoslav Muslims too :)
But, genes have nothing with the national notion and the feeling of belonging to ethnicity - if it would have , then you would be still a Serb, right? You would completely recognize yourself as a Serb. Do you feel like that? :)

2. This are credits not bailouts, therefore has the Federation debts, we took also in the War credits to survive. Gas we did not get because of Ukraine.

What is the average wage in the RS is lower as those in the Federation.


Nope, mate...those are not credits, those are so called donations...various kinds of donations....most of them simply disappeared...the money that Muslims got after the war is bigger than the amount Germany got after WWII....comparing the outcomes is ridiculous , right :)

The average wage in Republika Srpska is higher then the wage in the MH-F....maybe for 10 Euros, according to the latest statistics....though, comparing these wages is like a race between two crippled men - i'm not very proud of that......but should be repeated that Republika Srpska (as already said) received 10 times less money than Federation (of Muslims and Croats) , besides that we were barred by the US administration and the EU from accessing EU funds, yet we succeeded to improve our economy, and now we have one of the highest economic growth rate in Europe (for the sake of truth - we have a lot of space for improvement :)) , like every country in the beginning lol )..Our tax politics is the best in the region, investors are satisfied, our income tax rate is the lowest in the region, too...so , even Muslims from Federation are coming to register their companies in Republika Srpska (Income tax in Federation is at rate of 30%, in Croatia 20%)....Should be said that Federation kept stealing money from Republika Srpska, after US/EU occupiers imposed common BH tax institution based in Sarajevo...(that was proved in the court - the verdict was reached and Federation should return money back to us, but the problem is Federation is in bankruptcy....) ...another huge issue in front of court is 30.000 pensioners (Serbs) who worked the whole life in Federation, paying rates for their pensions, but after Federation expelled them (took their properties too), now Federation refuses to pay these people their own money i.e. pensions! The Human Rights Court in Strasbourg ruled that Federation has to pay these people, but Muslims don't care...in the meantime Republika Srpska is paying these people, because their money was stolen by Muslims in Federation....

As for Bosnia and Herzegovina I don't see any point in keeping this federation together. Serbs should join Serbia and Croats should join Croatia, Bosniaks can have their own country. Biggest problem with this is drawing borders but I think you could reach an agreement in the next 15 years. Sooner or later BiH will dissolve and it's better they do it in front of court or with the help of some special envoy or with arbitration then with another bloody war.


Couldn't agree more....

Spiky did Abraham Lincoln let the Southern States go?


Nope. The same thing Serbs did trying to preserve Yugoslavia. But Lincoln did not have NATO against him....that's the difference....

However, instead of seceding Yugoslavia, you should have pushed for peace...but, you have chosen a war...you asked for it....unfortunately....

You have to see that the founder of the RS was caught, Dr. Karadzic he has now a process about genocide and crimes against humanity, the RS is a product of a genocide.


:lol: well, why would you say that Karadzic is a founder of Srpska? Who is the founder of Federation of Muslims and Croats? Who is the founder of the Union known as Bosnia and Herzegovina? :)....

Republika Srpska was established on January 9, 1992.... ;) ....it was way before you triggered the civil war in March 1992....

The only product of genocide in the Balkans is Bosnia and Hercegovina! Muslims became a relative majority in BH after the genocide over Serbs in WWII and you misused that fact to organize illegal referendum in 1992....

Yes it is and it's borders need to be corrected.


Yep, but territory of Republika Srpska has to be increased! According to Dayton Agreement --> 49% of BH belongs to Republika Srpska - we are still missing 200 sq kilometers!
User avatar
By LAz
#1839726
In Serbia were 113 Peopel tested. You forget if one person is tested you test also his Parents and his Grand-Parents: 1+2+4=7 * 113 = 791 This should be enough for a statistic.


You clearly know nothing about genetics. We do get all our relatives genetic material. Our genome is from our mother and father - half from each. Therefore we do not have half the genes that our mother and father have. Therefore it is retarded to talk about these parents and grandparents... the logical conclusion from this idiocracy is to go back to th ancestors, and hey if you back far enough you might get a million people! Clearly 100 er so people is disgraceful for sample size. That is maybe good for a single municipality, not the entire country.



I would argue for Gentelmen Agreements, like the Turks and Greeks had, they simply exchanged the others populations, also serbs to Serbia, Bosnians from Serbia to Bosnia.


So you are telling us that 200,000 bosniaks from serbia should go to bosnia, and that 1,500,000 serbs from bosnia should go to serba?

Sorry but if that is a fair agreement, then you are out of your mind!!!



Dave nice Idea, but they do not want this, they want not, they want to keep our homes and our property and to unite with Serbia. We want one man one vote, simply democracy.


We have been there just as long as bosniaks have. So lets rephrase that - we want to keep our homes on which we have been on for hundrends and hundrends of years. Sorry, but our property is ours, and keep your foreign islamic ambitions off of our property.



We can never ever give this land away, now is for only to say one example: Srebrenica is now mostly Serbian, they simply killed 7000 males from the age of 12 Years, women were raped.


A few thousand serbian civilians were killed in srebrenica. That was simple payback ,to get the people of military age. Nothing wrong there, an eye for an eye. Women and children were treated okay in srebrenica... the UN took them to the town of Tuzla. So no, they were not raped, they were just deported. Clearly not genocide.



we were not a 3rd world nation we had also the olympics 84 in Sarajewo


Please learn to spell correctly, V, not W.

And yes, Yugoslavia was a third world country. The first world was the US and its allies, the second world was the soviet union and its satellites, and third world was the the rest. Yugoslavia was actually a leader of the third world, as we were one of the founding members of the non-aligned group, the group of 77 I think it was called.



Anyway, Serbs do not want any population exchange, they just want independence.


Dodik, the leader in R.S. does not want independence. He only says this when bosniak radicals talk of abolishing the R.S. entity.



Well, the whole Bosnia and Hercegovina was Christian mostly till 15th century...and then Turks came


Actually the christians were always a majority there. The muslims were always a minority.



The Bosnian Church:


That sect had all but disappeared by the time the turks had come.



Spiky did Abraham Lincoln let the Southern States go?


Excellent observation! I say that serbia should take back off of bosnia, under that logic. :lol:



In other words, many of the districts were Serbs now form an absolute majority did not have absolute Serb majorities before the war, so the argument goes that the Serbs would in effect be rewarded for ethnic cleansing.


Well we can observe that the serbs were the majority if we go back further. It's not our problem that the bosniaks had more kids and expanded on our land.
User avatar
By Independent_Srpska
#1839735
I think what Bosnjak meant was not only that the current borders of RS, but also the ethnic composition of its districts was changed through ethnic cleansing. However, if BiH were to be taken apart, the most practical basis for separation would be on ethnic lines, and now you have the situation that this ethno-geographic distribution was achieved through some rather non-Kosher means. In other words, many of the districts were Serbs now form an absolute majority did not have absolute Serb majorities before the war, so the argument goes that the Serbs would in effect be rewarded for ethnic cleansing.


a fair comment...

However, the fact is: Muslims and Croats started with ethnic cleansing in Bosnia and Hercegovina. Believe it or not. But that's the fact!

Besides that , Bosnia and Hercegovina had completely different ethnic picture before WWII , not to mention WWI....not to mention the time before Ottomans....It wouldn't be fair not take that in account, right?

But, name to me a war in which there was no movement of population?

Here is an example of ethnic cleansing without a war ---> Let me just remind you of 17 March 2004 - when Albanians in Kosmet expelled more than 250.000 Serbs from Kosmet in couple of days and burnt down most of the Serbian churches (some of them 10 centuries old, protected by UNESCO) in front of eyes and cameras of NATO/EU/USA/UNMIK and other members of "international community" - what happened 4 years later? Who raised that argument when the West recognized Kosmet? Did Muslim Sarajevo raised that argument? Nope, Muslims in Sarajevo celebrated that in the streets - not realizing that they were celebrating dissolution of Bosnia and Hercegovina, too :)
User avatar
By Dave
#1839739
You guys are all occupying Illyrian land anyway, time to clear out. ;)
User avatar
By Bosnjak
#1839742
as it was of Serb refugees settling from other regions (the Sarajevo peripheries for instance


This is absolute false some Orthodox left Sarajewo, because Karadzic said those who will find in the City we will also be slaughted, many Orthodox stayed... later Karadzic said to Alija this are your Serbs, die with them.

Neighobours of me were Serbs and they stayed, because they have adopted the Bosnian Mentality not to like orders, they were killed by a Serb Granade. There were also unfortunately Lynchings against some Orthodox who were accused to be Spies of Serbia.

The most prominent Ortodox Bosnjak is Jovan Divjak:

Image


Look a foreign reporter was with the 5th Corpus of the Bosnian Army as they started an offensive to unify the Land:

The General Dudakovic gave also orders not to shoot on Serb refugees, you will see why no Bosnian Soldiers are accused of Genocide.




@Dave Lg1 is considered as Illyrian genmarker. Bosna is a Illyrian name.
Last edited by Bosnjak on 19 Mar 2009 16:22, edited 1 time in total.
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By noemon
#1839748
@Noemon but was not there a dispute who is the leading bishop, the of Byzantion or those of Rome?


Yes there was, as I said from the time of the schism until St Sava. And that was mere politics, not anything religious in nature.
User avatar
By Dave
#1839754
Bosnjak wrote:@Dave Lg1 is considered as Illyrian genmarker. Bosna is a Illyrian name.

Oh well, surely there's some group preceding the Illyrians who can kick all of you out then. :lol:

Here the issue is very straight forward, thank God. Us whites showed up and conquered the Indians. No muss, no fuss. Intrawhite conflicts are so confusing...we just have some good-hearted discrimination against the papists.

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