Germany the beloved superpower ? - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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By killim
#13623111
Come in and find out. But take your time and don't try to do it in under 14 days.
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By ThomasNewton
#13623197
:lol:


You should always take the results of surveys with a grain of salt. For any number of reasons

This may come as a shock, but Germany has it's fair share of issues as well. Just like every other country on the planet.

As a side note Dr Cosmo I see that you're new (like me!) : I believe that avatar icons are supposed to only be black and white on this forum. You can easily change it in a photo editing program and then the moderation staff won't have to chastise you.
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By Dr Cosmo
#13623871
Actually Germany already gets invaded by all the Germania lovers from around the world

Record number of tourists to Germany (In 2010)

Hollywood America likes the German capital.....

How Berlin Became the Coolest City on the Planet

It just doesn´t stop....

CNN features the Metropolis Berlin as Europe's creative hub in a video

Major Hollywood movie productions are increasingly set in Berlin.....

Is Germany the New Paris?
Last edited by Siberian Fox on 21 Apr 2011 22:28, edited 1 time in total. Reason: Back-to-back posts merged.
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By leviathan
#13645142
While Germany certainly has become more attractive - Berlin more than anywhere else in Germany - it is no superpower.

Germany is well located in Europe. Berlin’s success is, to a large degree, due to it being the cheapest Western European major city. Berlin had huge unused potential which just needed to be filled.

Germany profits a lot from others and basically free-rides. While the United States and to a lesser extend Britain and France police the world, Germany appears like a peaceful open society, yet profits from the security provided by others. Economically Germany appears like a winner now but we all know how capricious the world economy is. And while German voters cry foul when Germany co-finances the bailouts for battered European countries, its fearsomely competitive industry profits most from the European Common Market. Germany’s export led growth strategy combined with no monetary freedom for Euro-zone members will only increase current imbalances.
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By killim
#13646747
In a closed EMU economy scenario i would agree to your assessment, but since the EMU is integrated into a globalized world you shouldn't forget that despite the German competetiveness the the EMU has a trade [b]deficit[b]. The obvious solution to this is that the less competetive EMU economies have to improve and not for the more competetive ones to decrease.
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By leviathan
#13647075
In a closed EMU economy scenario i would agree to your assessment, but since the EMU is integrated into a globalized world you shouldn't forget that despite the German competetiveness the the EMU has a trade [b]deficit[b]. The obvious solution to this is that the less competetive EMU economies have to improve and not for the more competetive ones to decrease.


Certainly, some EU countries need to improve. Some economies of the south have disadvantages because their labor forces aren't as flexible. Changes in that department take time and won't pass without protests. Germany could do something to boost domestic demand. They could introduce binding minimum wage law for one. That Germany's currency can't appreciate compared to theirs is a huge disadvantage for everyone else. German industry profits hugely. German consumers less so. This behavior may be sensible for an aging society but its no helpful to the wider situation. In essence, while Germans should consume more, some other Europeans should consume less.
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By Dr Cosmo
#13647455
leviathan wrote: Germany could do something to boost domestic demand.


When the Germans earn more money they don´t spent it domestically, they travel more
and spent it at the (mostly European) holiday locations !

It is a fundamental misconception in Anglo-Saxon and even German media to believe that Germans are not spending at home. While traveling more they boost the other European countries.
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By El Gilroy
#13647459
I'm currently sitting smack dab in the middle of german-occupied territories (aka germany), and it's definitely not paradise. These are some of the most (mentally) issue-plagued people I have ever seen.
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By killim
#13647604
Certainly, some EU countries need to improve. Some economies of the south have disadvantages because their labor forces aren't as flexible. Changes in that department take time and won't pass without protests.

Until that happens and it has to happen in a really huge extent (because of the small percentage of the EMU GDP of those countries), it wont have a noteworthy effect and my argument still stands.

Germany could do something to boost domestic demand.

Actually this is what is happening. The domestic demand improved greatly and it will improve more and more in the future as we are already going into a over-aged population (average is currently around 40 iirc).

They could introduce binding minimum wage law for one.

Which we already have where it is necessary and besides that the wage level is still numerous times higher compared to our EMU partners with a lack of competitiveness.

That Germany's currency can't appreciate compared to theirs is a huge disadvantage for everyone else. German industry profits hugely. German consumers less so. This behavior may be sensible for an aging society but its no helpful to the wider situation.

Actually this is not true. The current situation is that the we suffer since 1998 from mainly too low interest rates from the ECB to counter the inflation problem. Thats why the German consumer is suffering and keeping his money tight and thats why the German industry profits. Of course you can now demand higher interest rates, but have some fun telling it the PIIGS.

In essence, while Germans should consume more, some other Europeans should consume less.

This simply ignores the fact that there are extreme cultural differences. Given the current future expectations (over aging society, inflation scenario, workplace insecurity, housing costs) of the German customer, who always consumed less, because of the higher saving rate as a direct result of the culturally higher investment horizon, you can be really happy that we are in a self-sustaining growth cycle.
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By leviathan
#13647857
Which we already have where it is necessary...


As far as I know those are privately negotiated wage agreements between industries and unions. Those agreements can be subverted simply by creating a union and negotiating separate wage agreements. Industry can then choose to adhere to the lowest negotiated wage level. It is my understanding that this is why the Christian unions where founded which did just that.

and besides that the wage level is still numerous times higher compared to our EMU partners with a lack of competitiveness.


Yes, and so are prices. Real wages in the EU have improved slowest in Germany over the last decade, I think.

This simply ignores the fact that there are extreme cultural differences. Given the current future expectations (over aging society, inflation scenario, workplace insecurity, housing costs) of the German customer, who always consumed less, because of the higher saving rate as a direct result of the culturally higher investment horizon, you can be really happy that we are in a self-sustaining growth cycle.


Actually this is what is happening. The domestic demand improved greatly and it will improve more and more in the future as we are already going into a over-aged population (average is currently around 40 iirc).


These two statements seem somewhat contradictory to me.

Actually this is not true. The current situation is that the we suffer since 1998 from mainly too low interest rates from the ECB to counter the inflation problem. Thats why the German consumer is suffering and keeping his money tight and that's why the German industry profits. Of course you can now demand higher interest rates, but have some fun telling it the PIIGS.


The German consumer is suffering from high inflation? Inflation rates have been fairly low and stable compared to most other European countries. If rates around 2% are driving Germans to save at what rate will they spend? Weren't they afraid of deflation until very recently?

Basically in countries that run a current account surplus, people work for others who live abroad. In return they (mostly the companies) get paper which hopefully can be liquidized later. The recent developments (low Euro value for German industry standards, no/low real wage appreciation, deregulation of labor laws) have all strengthened German industry which exports and also invests abroad. So the consumer is profiting less than he could be.
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By killim
#13650422
This article is really worth to be mentioned. Let me add perhaps that in many cases it is even not possible to study certain disciplines in Germany without speaking English.
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By Negotiator
#13651140
Err, what ?

German and "superpower" ?

You gotta be kidding.

We arent even one of the countries with veto power in the UN, something even Britain and France got. Very superpower-ish, isnt it ? We also dont have any nuclear weapons, again like Britain and France. Not that I personally would want either, but we are obviously not one of the respected big players.

We only have a mere 80 million people - compare to USA with 300 million and both India and China with over a billion. Really the only way Germany could turn into an actual superpower is if we would merge with the rest of europe into, well, the "United States of Europe" or something. At least then we would have about 300 million people, like the USA, so one could consider us an actualy "superpower". With 80 million people, you cannot be a superpower. Just forget about that.

We are the nation with the lowest economic growth in Europe, since decades.

In the past 20 years, we progressed from the nation with the highest average income to the nation with the lowest average income inside the european union. And our wage ratio still keeps falling. Over here our newspapers print big articles about how costly old people are if pensions are raised by 1.1% - less than the inflation of that year, and after many years of ZERO growth. Thats how germans think ! If you ignore east germany, our real wages have stalled since 1990. And since about 2005, when the "Hartz IV" "reform" was introduced, our real wages are FALLING - i.e. the average wages dont even raise fast enough to compensate for inflation. We have now 33% of all women and 13% of all men in the socalled "low wage sector". Thats about as big as in the USA, albeit our Gini is still much lower (i.e. better) than the one of the US.

As the Pisa study showed repeatedly, we have one of the worst educational system in Europe (in fact we have been the worst in the past), with the highest dependency between parent wealth and the quality of the child graduation. Does that sound like a leading nation to you ? People who dont give a damn about education for their children ?

We are economically highly dependent on export, our local consumption is very weak, hardly ever increases since decades. Unsurprisingly, we got hit harder than any other country in europe by the economic crisis.

Out of the countries in the european union, yes we are the one with the most people, and maybe still the economically most powerful. However, thanks to our policies, its likely we'll be the driving force behind the causes that terminate the european union for good, thanks to our low (and falling) wages and low local consumption, driving everyone else into ever growing and increasingly fatal debts.

Of course, compared to the crazy USA, Germany certainly is still a socialism of well distributed wealth and a paradise of human rights. It always depends upon to whom you compare yourself to, doesnt it ? And we're definitely getting there.
Last edited by Negotiator on 10 Mar 2011 16:03, edited 2 times in total.
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By Dr Cosmo
#13651307
Negotiator wrote:- got confused -

Seems so.

You have a long road to travel to achieve wisdom and clarity my little friend.
Keep on reading and learning, maybe, but only maybe in ten years or so you can
claim mastery of knowledge in international relations.....

Germany – the new mini-superpower
By Preston Cole
#13654188
Negotiatior, the ease with which you put your own nation down is disgusting.

Germany has what it takes to become a mini-superpower of Europe. Germans have something called a higher civilization standard; punctuality, morality, strictness, patriotism. All the nuclear weapons and military might in the world won't surpass that.
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By soron
#13654355
The question is wether the German government has the balls to step up to that role - our current Chancellor clearly hasn't got them (in any sense). In my opinion we should back up Brits and French if they want to enforce a no-fly zone over Lybia, by force if necessary.
Only our lobbyist Chancellor Frau Merkel doesn't want to endanger German contracts with that crook Gaddafi. What a shame.
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By El Gilroy
#13654366
Good to see some germans are aware of just how corrupt their government really is :)
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