[noemon]

The optimistic words of the prime minister have been heard before.

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In the forward of the UK government’s white paper, Theresa May predicts success in the coming Brexit negotiations, dismissing warnings from her former ambassador to the EU that the talks could “go nowhere”.

“In the birthplace of democracy,” the prime minister wrote, success will come because “everyone, both inside and outside the country, will respect the democratic right of a people to assume responsibility and decide for themselves on the critical issue before them.”

Acting with unity, she added, Brexit will send “a strong message across Europe”, but of course “our decision that the British people express their will sovereignly is in no way a decision to break with Europe”.

“We owe it to our children, we owe it to the future generations,” she concluded.

Attentive readers will by now have realised that almost everything written so far in this article is nonsense. The quotes do not come from the prime minister’s foreword to the Brexit white paper, but are drawn exclusively from a parliamentary speech by Alexis Tsipras, the Greek prime minister, when Greece was at the crux of its negotiations with the eurozone in June 2015.

Mrs May has been drinking from the same populist cup as Mr Tsipras. She thinks “the essential ingredient of our success” stems from “the strength and support of 65m people willing us to make it happen”.

Unity of purpose will enable Britain to get on with “forming a new partnership with Europe, but building a stronger, fairer, more Global Britain too”.

“And let us do it not for ourselves, but for those who follow. For the country’s children and grandchildren too,” she added.

Mr Tsipras won his referendum the following week, but his negotiating position didn’t last long once confronted with the reality of another side. Mrs May thinks Britain is different, but we have been here before.

FT

[Atlantis]

The Brexshitters like the Trumpistas believe in power politics and not in peaceful coexistence in the EU. They will try everything to divide Europe to get an upper-hand in the negotiations.

European strength lies in unity. I'm always surprised by the determination of European nationalists to damage their own interests. Where does all that self-hatred come from?

It's remarkable how the far-left now resembles the far-right. We have already seen that in Greece, and in Germany too the far-left leader Wagenknecht has acknowledged that she is after the same segment of the electorate as the far-right AfD. In a recent TV debate, the grand-father of the far-left, Oscar Lafontaine, used Trumps arguments against his own country. They are teaming with Trump and Putin against Europe.

[Beren]

Unity of purpose will enable Britain to get on with “forming a new partnership with Europe, but building a stronger, fairer, more Global Britain too”.

So Britain means to be more global now?

I thought they meant to be more British, neither European nor global, when they voted for Brexit. Or do they believe they can thrive with Theresa and Boris as they did with Elizabeth I and Sir Cecil?

[Potemkin]

It's remarkable how the far-left now resembles the far-right.

In fact, the far-right is increasingly resembling the far-left. Ever since the rise of fascism in the immediate aftermath of World War I, reactionaries have tried to wear the borrowed robes of the far-left - anti-elitism, populism and economic statism. The first attempt to do this collapsed in 1945, and throughout the Cold War the bourgeois liberals (the 'centre') were able to keep both the far-left and the far-right contained. With the end of the Cold War and the rise of unrestrained neo-liberalism, that strategy no longer works. The 1930s and 40s are now ancient history, and a new generation is rising who cannot even remember the Cold War. Both the far-right and the far-left can sense their opportunity....

We have already seen that in Greece, and in Germany too the far-left leader Wagenknecht has acknowledged that she is after the same segment of the electorate as the far-right AfD.

Again, this is nothing new. In the 1920s and 30s, both Mussolini and Hitler were after the same segment of the electorate as the Communists. Both the far-right and the far-left are trying to appeal to the same class of people, so it's hardly surprising if their policy platforms share some similarities.

In a recent TV debate, the grand-father of the far-left, Oscar Lafontaine, used Trumps arguments against his own country. They are teaming with Trump and Putin against Europe.

No, they are teaming with Trump and Putin against the bourgeois liberal ruling elite, both in their own country and in Europe as a whole. Liberalism is the disease, to which both the far-right and the far-left are offering rather different cures.

[Atlantis]

@Potemkin, the far-left has always been the objective ally of the fascists. That never changed. By fighting the Social Democrats, the German communist party prepared the way for Hitler to take power. Today, the far-left will side with a plutocracy with fascistoide tendencies to fight social democracy. Corbyn, together with Marxist intellectuals, will burn in the neocon hell of the Tories for having betrayed the working man.

So Britain means to be more global now?

I thought they meant to be more British, neither European nor global, when they voted for Brexit. Or do they believe they can thrive with Theresa and Boris as they did with Elizabeth I and Sir Cecil?

The British need to create the illusion of nationalism to keep the Scots down and the Union from collapsing. The position of the current government is so full of contradictions that I don't see how it can survive.

There is an inherent contradiction in wanting greater sovereignty and more globalization. The type of advanced FTAs the Brexshitters want requires substantial interference in domestic affairs. If May wants to have a trade deal with Trump, she'll have to privatize the NHS and reduce consumer protection and social standards. The EU never required that of the UK.

[MadMonk]

The EU always treated the UK with kid gloves because of the importance of London's financial markets and the inherit skepticism towards Europe that resides within primarily the English countryside.

There are numerous interests that desire the European project to fall apart and will use a discontented citizenship in several EU states to achieve their aims. If the EU is to survive it needs to bridge the North-South West-East divide within the Union, show clear objective aspirations for the future and show that it can manage emergent crisis with a broad support from its members. This is sadly lacking in today's political and social climate.

[Atlantis]

The EU always treated the UK with kid gloves because of the importance of London's financial markets ...

The City was able to attract financial business because it was the financial center of the single market. Outside the EU, the City will loose interest because it can no longer serve as financial center to the single market. Banks are already making plans to move to the continent. The City will be downsized and to survive will have to engage in a race to the bottom with Singapore, Dubai, etc., or become a giant off-shore tax haven like Panama.

[B0ycey]

European strength lies in unity. I'm always surprised by the determination of European nationalists to damage their own interests. Where does all that self-hatred come from?

One of the best quotes I have ever read on PoFo. And a question I have never got a sensible answer from when I have asked the populists on here.

[Nonsense]

[quote="Potemkin"]
" Both the far-right and the far-left are trying to appeal to the same class of people, so it's hardly surprising if their policy platforms share some similarities".

Yes, but like the 'middle' ground(sic) parties, experience suggest that it's all talk & no trousers when it comes to delivery.

They all share one common characteristic, they LIE OUT OF THEIR BACK TEETH & VOTERS ARE AS DUMB AS DUMB CAN BE BY VOTING FOR ANY OF THEM.

Like OXFAM, after nearly (60) years in it's existence, I dare anyone to claim that it has been 'successful' in it's aims.

Likewise the two main political parties, it's not just that when one party loses an election, that the 'winner' declares war on those who voted for their opponents, it's that, even when they win, they fail absolutely to 'DELIVER' the goods for those that vote them in.

Just look where we are today in this country & honestly think what 'real' progress there has been.

I don't see much change, if any for the majority, if anything, it's progressively moving backwards.

I think that the 'nuclear option' is the one that the majority will take in 2020, by electing CORBYN, as daft as it sounds.

Theresa MAY, apparently, has now said that immigration will NOT change much post exit from the E.U.

I ALWAYS knew that you can NEVER trust an 'old 'Tory' fart', even when it's 'female', when she said that people want 'control' of the borders, in the 'Tory' mind, it's the 'exactitude' that matters, not the 'ambiguity' of the language spoken
& that's why she is finished in 2020.

[One Degree]

Atlantis wrote:

European strength lies in unity. I'm always surprised by the determination of European nationalists to damage their own interests. Where does all that self-hatred come from?


One of the best quotes I have ever read on PoFo. And a question I have never got a sensible answer from when I have asked the populists on here.

The EU, UN, and globalization represents the interests of the 1% over the 99% as seen by populists. In hard times, people will always want a government closer to them. They believe this will give them more control. The unity you see as a strength is viewed as the cause of their hardships. People always return to 'community' in times of need.

[Rugoz]

Silly comparison.

The 2 countries and the situation they're in aren't remotely comparable.