[demima]

Why do you wish Labour to be dead?

[Zionist Nationalist]

Labor are a bunch of pathetic leftists

good that they are gone also the labor party in Israel is finished asell and thats awesome

[layman]

Labour had problems and a lack of direction and leadership before Corbyn showed up, true.

Being a Center left party is not pointless however. There is a perfectly acceptable position in being more like Norway or Belgium.

Corbyn is more at home visiting third world communists in mexico. Fine if this is your thing but not for a British main stream party.

It has now proven to lack public support and even momentum drones are jumping ship.

[Seeker8]

Has Corbyn proposed any policies that you think extreme left? I'd consider his platform centre left.

Blairites started privatisation of the NHS and other things, deregulation of the banks and mass immigration. And of course unprovoked warmongering. I wouldn't consider that centre left.

[noemon]

@noemon
I told you at the time he was anti Europe.
Not only this but he lied about it and pretended to be pro Europe for the campaign, thus sabotaging it.
I even posted evidence of his office refusing to speak/help st remain events.
So much for his honest integrity.
As Neil kinnock said, leaders can't have personal public views. They need to represent a collective. What is ironic about Jeremy is that this eternal socialist is incapable of representing a collective party of opinions.
His own, unchanging positions are all that matter to him.

I consider Corbyn to be a mild eurosceptic, his kind of euroscepticism is found even among mainstream europhiles. During Maastricht there was a lot of debate regarding the powers of the Council, Commission and Parliament. Corbyn incidentally wanted some powers to go to the EU Parliament instead of the Council & the Commission, which makes him an EU federalist because the Parliament is the body of the would-be federation and hence why it is so weak(because even European europhiles don't want to go down that way) while the Council & the Commission are the bodies of the EU countries. His decision to support the Brexit bill I believe was made for strategic reasons rather than personal opinion reasons. Since the referendum Labour had to decide whether they will go after the 48% or the 52%, Corbyn himself has been unsure and Labour is definitely torn in half on the issue. I think he was convinced that going after the 52% would have better results for Labour and they stalled for time until the Brexit bill forced them to clarify and even then the response was muddled & confusing testament to his own second thoughts. Now they are in a bind. Aside from my personal views I think that Labour has more of a chance of winning voters from the 48% pool of people rather than the 52% pool of people, a lot of Labour MP's are aware of this and that is why they are trying to maintain that connection. Corbyn will have to make some hard decision sooner or later though I am beginning to think that he might instead opt to ignore the situation and kick the can down the road.

[fokker]

Corbyn is a decent person. He doesn't change opinions to satisfy public or party. They either agree or vote him out. He is not crooked like blairites. Some seem to prefer to have a blairite in his place. But them complain how crooked politicians are.

Voting for politicians who you seem to agree with but are deceitful liars will not improve anything. They will follow their agenda and ignore promises. Persons character is as important as his policies.

[Nonsense]

Why do you wish Labour to be dead?

Shouldn't that be, Why do you wish 'Labour' to be alive?

[Kaiserschmarrn]

Why do you wish Labour to be dead?

Because I believe that the left has been nothing but detrimental to our societies for some time now (if they were ever a positive force to begin with). After admitting defeat in economics and adopting what amounts to a centre right position on this, they have put all their passion into the social sphere, chiefly identity politics, enlisting the state and the law to bring about equality of outcome, introducing politics into and eventually dominating all educational institutions, enlisting "science" in order to push left wing opinion and theories as empirical facts or even the truth, a humanitarianism that borders on religious fervour, and perhaps most importantly their conviction that the nation state and borders are the greatest evil in the world.

In the unlikely event that the left - and with it Labour - is thoroughly rejected and dies, it will hopefully put a stop to this great social engineering experiment and their attempt at transforming our societies, which - as if it wasn't already bad and divisive enough - also makes the left the main driving force behind globalisation and the main ally of global corporations and those capitalists that have a stake in ever more open borders and who ideally would like to do away with borders altogether. I have said this before, but it's worth repeating: the capitalists are not the main problem because they are rational actors and will adjust to the circumstances they find in any given country. We can deal with them quite easily once they have lost their most powerful ally, the left. The left's position, on the other hand, is almost entirely irrational which makes them the most formidable opponent because they are self-righteous, feel they have the moral high ground and are acting based on a moral imperative. Therefore, the most important objective is the defeat of the left or at least what it stands for today.

[Decky]

Have you just stepped out of a time machine? Labour hasn't had anything to do with the left in decades. Blair was more more Thatcherite than the Tory party that he was competing with during his time in power.

[Kaiserschmarrn]

How often do we need to go over this? I'm using the generally accepted terminology. It makes for a smoother discussion, shorter and more concise posts and is less likely to lead to misunderstandings.

[Decky]

So you are using the term left wing to describe the centre right capitalists who want to privatise everything then. You are like an American.

[Kaiserschmarrn]

I've just explained the characteristics of today's left, as I see them.

[Decky]

I could claim to see you as a falcon, it would not make that so. You are describing the views and behaviours of middle class centre right capitalists.

This is not complex. Pro working class=left wing. Pro idle rich = right wing. Have you ever met a working class person who is a fan of all the identity politics bullshit the capitalist owned media are pushing onto the world to make the workers fight amongst each other rather than uniting?

[Kaiserschmarrn]

I know you will forever insist on squabbling over labels, so I won't continue with this conversation.

[Decky]

If you want but nothing political that you say makes any sense. We haven't had a left wing government in the UK since James Callaghan so you sound kind of mad complaining about the left and all the evil we have done recently.

[fuser]

Its the right who wants to label anything that isn't non mainstream "far right" to label left and then have the gall to call us for not using accepted label. So now CDU in Germany, conservatives in England and labor who literally accepted complete defeat and went the way of conservatives all are left.

This is ironically hilarious and sad at the same time.

[Kaiserschmarrn]

I'm using mainstream terminology and label myself far right for the same reason.

Make a mental substitution of left with liberal progressives in my post. That will hopefully make everybody happy.

[EvieG2017]

:lol:

It is mad what rich people tell themselves. The average yearly income in the UK is £26,500.

Not sure that average still is true in 2017, I know few people who are making £26,500 annually. Most people I'm connected with make the same as me which is £20,000 or around £1,400 per month after taxes Income after tax calculator

Rich people don't have a clue...

[Decky]

Not sure that average still is true in 2017, I know few people who are making £26,500 annually. Most people I'm connected with make the same as me which is £20,000 or around £1,400 per month after taxes [url]http://www.income-tax.co.uk/calculator/20000/url]

Rich people don't have a clue...

https://www.incometaxcalculator.org.uk/ ... ary-uk.php

The average salary UK for the tax year ending 5 April 2015 was £27,600. This is a median average and an increase of 1.6% over the 2014 median average which was £27,200. These averages are for full time employees with data taken from the ONS Annual Average Salary Survey.

In the tax year 2016/2017, the statistics below detail the popularity of different salary calculations on Income Tax Calculator. The median average wage UK as calculated by our Salary Calculator is £27,000.