The view from Copeland: 'Lifelong Labour voters want Corbyn out' - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14779698
The Guardian wrote:The day after the byelection, voters explain why Labour lost its eight-decade hold on the west Cumbrian electorate.

The Labour canvassers have all gone home, their leaflets blown away, but the party’s biggest problem remains front and centre on Whitehaven’s picturesque marina.

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“Just about everyone – Labour people – I’ve spoken to does not like him,” said Christine Curtin, who described herself on Friday as a dyed-in-the-wool Labour voter. The “him” is Jeremy Corbyn.

Many commentators felt the Labour leader’s perceived anti-nuclear stance would prove toxic in Copeland, where more than 10,000 jobs rely on the industry, but it appears the feeling runs far deeper than that.

“I think it’s his personality, his history of engaging with what we see as terrorists,” said Curtin, pointing to media reports of his historical links with Sinn Féin leaders. “There’s a lot of things involved. He seems to be more extreme than a lot of us are around here.”

Curtin, a 57-year-old housewife, said she decided at the last minute to vote Labour despite deep reservations about Corbyn, who she felt was only interested in Copeland “because he wants to shut the factory”, the Sellafield nuclear decommissioning site.

In the Mirehouse Labour Social Club on Whitehaven’s biggest estate the view among lunchtime drinkers was equally dismal. “Labour will never come back again here,” said one lifetime Labour voter, who declined to be named.

Savouring a cheap pint the day after the Conservative party ended Labour’s eight-decade rule in Copeland, the drinkers expressed deep antipathy towards Corbyn and disillusionment about politics in general.

“A lot of people don’t like Corbyn,” said one downcast voter. “He’s a lunatic. If they want to keep the nuclear industry, he’ll shut it down. If they want to keep the hospital, he’ll shut it down. It’s either his way or no way.”

Labour canvassers admitted before the byelection that the leader was the most common topic on the doorstep. Yet activists hoped the Corbyn factor might be drowned out by widespread anger at Tory-backed plans to downgrade the maternity unit at the West Cumberland hospital.

When it came to voting, however, many said they believed lifelong Labour voters turned blue in the hope it would trigger Corbyn’s removal and save the party from perceived electoral oblivion.

“This week I’ve spoken to a lot of people, lifelong Labour voters who I’ve known for a very long time, who voted Conservative because they want Jeremy Corbyn out,” said Mike Starkey, the independent mayor of Copeland.

Starkey said he believed the Labour revolt would claim further scalps in the party’s heartlands if Corbyn remained in charge.

He predicted that Sue Hayman, the well-respected Labour MP for neighbouring Workington, would be the next to lose her seat. “There’s a consensus that if Jeremy Corbyn leads them into a general election it will be catastrophic,” he said.

Back on the marina, a passing cyclist, who did not want to be named, said he was a lifelong Labour voter and remained that way begrudgingly in Thursday’s byelection. He said he would take his vote elsewhere at the next election unless Corbyn was unseated.

“I’m quite disillusioned with the party,” he said. “I’m not a Jeremy Corbyn supporter and even after this result, it confirmed deep down what I thought about the current state of the party. I don’t think I’ll ever vote Tory but it depends what happens with Labour, if they get their house in order and sort their policies out.”

Leonard and Joy Rogers, both 81, said they were normally Liberal Democrat voters but voted Conservative on Thursday.

“Labour doesn’t enthuse anyone with confidence, does it?” Leonard Rogers said. “With him as leader I certainly would not vote for Labour. The Conservatives seem to be the only viable alternative.”

The retiree, who moved to the west Cumbrian coast from south-west London, said most of his northern friends were Labour supporters. “We’ve got friends just down the road from us and they’ve historically voted Labour but this time they’ve voted Conservative. They felt it was the only viable party.”

Mary and Geoff Mooney, 67 and 68 respectively, said most of their friends were Labour voters but many voted against the party in protest at the perceived decline of Whitehaven town centre, which was busy with half-term holidaymakers on Friday.

“I’m not surprised at the result, because people needed change,” Mary Mooney said. “The town’s derelict. The harbour’s beautiful, but go to the town and there’s nothing to keep visitors here. The [Labour-run] town council doesn’t do much. Something drastic needs to happen in Whitehaven.”

Geoff Mooney said they voted Conservative but did not hold out much hope for change. “We’re out on a limb up here and whether we’ll get any help from central government, I’m not sure. It’s going to take a lot of money and we probably won’t see it in our lifetimes.”

Dorothy Cameron, 81, said she felt similarly despondent. “People are really fed up because they feel not taken notice of. We’re right out of it and it’s like we hardly exist. It’s out of sight, out of mind.”

Joanne Parry, 57, a restaurant owner, said she voted Conservative to try to break Labour’s long-held dominance in west Cumbria. “A monkey could stand for Labour here and they would get in. It’s time for a change,” she said. “Labour has been here for 80-odd years and it’s time to give the Conservatives a chance and see if they do any better or worse.”

The Guardian


I have to admit my own disillusionment with Jeremy Corbyn, as some of you remember I joined Labour the summer after the Brexit vote. I joined for 2 reasons, the main one was that I was under the impression that Labour would champion the anti-Brexit argument and take it upon itself to undo the Brexit route, the secondary one was that I believed that Corbyn was being unfairly targeted and that there was a conspiracy to remove him from leadership so I reckoned that I should help him out by joining and voting to keep him in charge which I eventually did.

Recently I received an email from Labour, signed by Jeremy Corbyn on the decision of the party to support Brexit in parliament, arguably I was incensed and sent an email back for which I got a response 2 days later. This has certainly been the main reason to put me off but it also needs to be said that I have also started following the House of Commons and watching some of the fights between Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn, she beats him and the worse part is that she beats him even when she shouldn't, even when he controls the argument, she manages to spin it and he can't bring it back in context to strike her. Theresa May must be feeling very glad that she has Jeremy Corbyn as an opponent.
#14779699
You supported Corbyn a guy who has been against the EU for the whole time the EU has existed (and the EEC before that) because you though he would fight to stop us being free of the EU Reich? :lol: Naive does not even begin to describe that stance, did you not even look up his past as the most prolific opponent of the EU of the British left (after Tony Benn died anyway) before lending him your support?
#14779707
Only unity of both new and old labour can save the party. Burnham knew that. He was their only hope. Now we have the Tories for at least one more election. Corbyn doesn't realise that the working class Labour voters aren't socialists. They are anti immigrant nationalists. He missed a trick by not siding on the socialists that elected him Labour leader twice. 48% of the electorate were up for grabs but he went safe and sided with Brexit. Well that's fine, but now the writing is on the wall for Labour for good as people think they are no different to the Tories. But the Tories have better economic policies. So they vote conservatives.
#14779717
Decky wrote:You can't be a liberal socialist. Liberals and socialist are enemies with totally different ideas. Have people already forgot about the cold war? Liberals and socialists fought a big fight that lasted generations.


Eh? Capitalists vs communists? Let's educate you with something. Marx communism is different from Soviet communism. But both are communism. Corbyn voters are Liberal socialists. They are pro equality and want wealth to be spead more fairly in society. Your socialism is union based. So it's more an extreme Marx Socialism with right wing elements to it.
#14779719
B0ycey wrote:Only unity of both new and old labour can save the party. Burnham knew that. He was their only hope. Now we have the Tories for at least one more election. Corbyn doesn't realise that the working class Labour voters aren't socialists. They are anti immigrant nationalists. He missed a trick by not siding on the socialists that elected him Labour leader twice. 48% of the electorate were up for grabs but he went safe and sided with Brexit. Well that's fine, but now the writing is on the wall for Labour for good as people think they are no different to the Tories. But the Tories have better economic policies. So they vote conservatives.


Yeap that's exactly right, either way now or later after losing an 80-year-long-held labour Seat in Copeland, Corbyn's days are clearly numbered. The only question is whether he will lead Labour in national elections, lose and retire or whether he will he give up leadership before the national elections.

If Burnham takes over, Labour stands a good chance of winning the national elections.
#14779720
There is no such thing as liberal socialism. Liberalism is about the state not interfering private individuals and businesses and multi party parliamentary democracy and capitalist control of the economy. You might have heard of Adam Smith?

Also there are no right wing elements to my socialism. I hate rich people.

Also you can't have a unity of old and new labour. It has to be one or the other. Labour can not simultaneously go back to being a working class party and the political wing of the trade union movement (Old Labour) while also being a middle class party identical to the Tory party in its policies (New Labour).

A party can not be both of those things at the same time.
#14779726
Social democracy which is another word for liberal socialism or social liberalism is when parties of the left in Europe came to terms with capitalism and decided to pursue mixed market economies with redistribution policies through welfare. This has been the winning ticket for parties on the left.
#14779731
They didn't lose their core voters either though and they had a decent showing despite them both being utterly bland politicians. In all countries, this kind of centre-left comes to power every 4 or 8 years and the centre-right follows for another 4 or 8 years. It wasn't their turn after Blair's 10 years and Labour's 3 consecutive election wins.
#14779732
Decky wrote:There is no such thing as liberal socialism. Liberalism is about the state not interfering private individuals and businesses and multi party parliamentary democracy and capitalist control of the economy. You might have heard of Adam Smith?


It's not even worth my time, but being liberal is pretty much what it says. It's about liberty and social values. It's about equal rights for all. Socialism is about sharing wealth in society and making it fairer. You can be both for human rights and be for shared wealth in society you know. And in fact most socialists are. But then you have your socialism. It is more for a protectionism society where you want wealth shared out. The fact you are discrimative means you are right wing... in part. But you're in denial so you think you're not.

Also there are no right wing elements to my socialism. I hate rich people.


So?

Also you can't have a unity of old and new labour. It has to be one or the other. Labour can not simultaneously go back to being a working class party and the political wing of the trade union movement (Old Labour) while also being a middle class party identical to the Tory party in its policies (New Labour).

A party can not be both of those things at the same time.


It can and it has. Old Labour on its own couldn't topple the worse PM of all time... Thatcher. Only new and old could have. That's why Corbyn is never going to be PM. It is that simple.
#14779737
It's not even worth my time, but being liberal is pretty much what it says. It's about liberty and social values. It's about equal rights for all.


:lol: The liberals who built the British empire and practised slavery would be amused by this idea.

As for Thatcher as the worst PM :lol: Herbert Henry Asquith was the worst PM of all time, far worse than Thatcher. Maybe you have heard of the first world war?

Anyway the real message to take home is that Noeman should not have been in the Labour party in the first place, businessmen belong in the Tory party. That is the natural order of things.
#14779739
Decky wrote::lol: The liberals who built the British empire and practised slavery would be amused by this idea.


Yes Decky. No Whigs in the East Indian company or slave trade.

As for Thatcher as the worst PM :lol: Herbert Henry Asquith was the worst PM of all time, far worse than Thatcher. Maybe you have heard of the first world war?


Interesting you write that. I can't remember. Who weakened the Unions again? Who destroyed the coal pits?
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