[Varilion]

1. Savages are always ready to follow their chief in battle against neighbor tribes, we know this...(you can replace some words with Fascists, Duce and nations; doesn't change much)
2. The fact that someone won't fight for his country doesn't mean he won't fight for something else (e.g. Freedom)
3. "Demons run when a good (peaceful) man goes to war" [Dr.Who, IIRC]

[Beren]

So with a Swedish or Finnish spirit we could be a real major power or something? That's news for sure!

[hartmut]

I would have expected the Germans to be at least as effective in "pacifying" themselves as the Japanese, yet almost a fifth of Germans are still warmongers. Merkel and von der Leyen really need to get their act together to get the percentage down. This rotten culture needs to change.

That is purely polemic and well below zero, as it implies cheap conclusions.
It is not only disappointing, but fits well in your stance emphasized by other kindergarten statements.

Simply disgusting, but not really a surprise.
And now I expect you to claim, you'd mean it only as a persiflage. I doubt that severely and would presume, your assessment "rotten culture" is meant seriously and follows the line of the extreme right.
Am I wrong?

[Kaiserschmarrn]

That is purely polemic and well below zero, as it implies cheap conclusions.
It is not only disappointing, but fits well in your stance emphasized by other kindergarten statements.

Simply disgusting, but not really a surprise.
And now I expect you to claim, you'd mean it only as a persiflage. I doubt that severely and would presume, your assessment "rotten culture" is meant seriously and follows the line of the extreme right.
Am I wrong?

I'm following your Defence Minister von der Leyen's thinking on this. She has identified the rotten culture in the Bundeswehr but as the statistics demonstrate it's clearly a society-wide problem.

[Ned Lud]

I'm not sure how trustworthy these surveys really are. A similar one was carried out at Cambridge university before the second world war began, but a large number of under graduates enlisted straight away.

I'll see if I can find out more about it.

Anyway, when the chips are down, things change.

Wasn't this a debate in the Oxford Union? 'My Country' is a nonsensical phrase - whom are we asked to fight for? I was turned down for a commission because I said I hated 'dirty colonialist wars', but my father was horrified I was there at all. Fighting for bullshitters is a mug's game, and that's a fact. Think of Bliar and learn to say NO.

[Political Interest]

It is interesting to note that the countries with higher percentages tend to be smaller local powers without global commitments. Maybe the people in these countries know that if they were to fight a war it would be a legitimate defence of their homelands?

[One Degree]

The simple fact of being smaller usually means a more uniform culture, and thus more patriotism. Local autonomy breeds communalism.

[Political Interest]

The simple fact of being smaller usually means a more uniform culture, and thus more patriotism. Local autonomy breeds communalism.

Yes, these smaller countries tend to have much more cohesion.

This is true even in the Anglosphere. New Zealand is the smallest of the English speaking countries but rates highest on collectivism.

[foxdemon]

http://www.dw.com/en/germanys-defense-minister-pledges-support-to-fight-is-in-africa/a-39927237


Looks like Da Deutsche Africa Korps is back. Why wouldn't young Germans want to join up now that they can participate in a spot of expeditionary warfare?

On a related theme, will this Franco-German adventurism mean Macron will reverse his defence budget cuts? Maybe military spending could be removed from the EU budget spending ceilings?

[hartmut]

I'm following your Defence Minister von der Leyen's thinking on this. She has identified the rotten culture in the Bundeswehr but as the statistics demonstrate it's clearly a society-wide problem.

No, you are not "following .. Defence Minister von der Leyen's thinking on this", but your own ideas and perceptions thoroughly hidden in your very specially nebula, conjuring brown ideology.
What you are doing, is simply placing entrapping hints without getting to point and sound source.
That is agitating in a very unpleasant way, worth to be detested and rejected.
Kaiserschmarrn: (Emperors Nonsense - to get the translation, .. or a heated meal of smashed eggs mixed with some sugar and flour. That is exactly what are you doing; following easygoing and reckless a very unholy history)

[Kaiserschmarrn]

No, you are not "following .. Defence Minister von der Leyen's thinking on this", but your own ideas and perceptions thoroughly hidden in your very specially nebula, conjuring brown ideology.
What you are doing, is simply placing entrapping hints without getting to point and sound source.
That is agitating in a very unpleasant way, worth to be detested and rejected.
Kaiserschmarrn: (Emperors Nonsense - to get the translation, .. or a heated meal of smashed eggs mixed with some sugar and flour. That is exactly what are you doing; following easygoing and reckless a very unholy history)

I prefer supreme nonsense, a reminder to not take myself too seriously all the time.

It's good to see that you as a German haven't let your guard down regarding the real and imminent nazi threat. We have to stay ever vigilant.

[Buzz62]

I'm following your Defence Minister von der Leyen's thinking on this. She has identified the rotten culture in the Bundeswehr but as the statistics demonstrate it's clearly a society-wide problem.

Problem?
Rotten Culture?
Sweden is about to elect SD party which opposes refugee admittance.
Germany is close to this as well.
France came very close, and the Eastern European countries are shutting their boarders.
Meanwhile, the "twinkies", or would pancakes be a better term, are busy ferrying these fine, lovable refugees from the coast of North Africa, directly to Sicily.
My wife and mother-in-law (who lives with us) watch Czech TV daily. The news about Europe is nothing like the candy-coated shit we're fed here in NA.
These numbers are gonna continue to rise, and when it finally blows, it'll get ugly.

[Rancid]

The Military is just tool for politicians. Our governments trick large numbers of people to join in the name of shit like "serving your country", "Patriotism", and "National Interest." These are convenient lies for politicians to use people for their personal benefit (enrich their main backers and themselves with money and power).

[Buzz62]

The Military is just tool for politicians. Our governments trick large numbers of people to join in the name of shit like "serving your country" and "Patriotism." These are convenient lies for politicians to use people for their personal benefit (enrich their main backers and themselves with money and power).

OK well, while that's a very intellectual sounding observation, the fact is Europe is being invaded.
Merkle should be tried as a traitor. It won't be the politicians gathering forces to fight this invasion. It'll be the people themselves, lining up to take their lands back and restore some sort of safely and order.

[SolarCross]

The Military is just tool for politicians. Our governments trick large numbers of people to join in the name of shit like "serving your country", "Patriotism", and "National Interest." These are convenient lies for politicians to use people for their personal benefit (enrich their main backers and themselves with money and power).

Soft civilians have the luxury of remaining so because hard men shelter them from the maelstrom of life. A military is as indispensable for civilisation as walls and roof are to a house.

Then comes the problem of how to source an army, provision it and keep it loyal. Soldiering is a dangerous business and soldiers amongst civilians can but for their self-restraint take anything they like from anyone. consequently a purely mercenary military will be hugely expensive.

Thus the appeal to sentiment to pay without paying. A man who fights for the national family out of love rather than gold out of self interest is cheaper to keep.

[Rancid]

OK well, while that's a very intellectual sounding observation, the fact is Europe is being invaded.
Merkle should be tried as a traitor. It won't be the politicians gathering forces to fight this invasion. It'll be the people themselves, lining up to take their lands back and restore some sort of safely and order.

This invasion is happening because those in power in Europe are benefiting from what you are describing as an invasion. No need to use the military for their personal benefit.

[Rancid]

Thus the appeal to sentiment to pay without paying. A man who fights for the national family out of love rather than gold out of self interest is cheaper to keep.

My point is, fighting for national family, out of love, is too a convenient fiction. At the end, fighting for your nations domination, is fighting for your selfish benefit. Money, power, jobs, etc. etc. Having a love for your nation, means that you want the best for yourself, which means you are wiling to fuck over anyone not in your nation. Again, it's always about self interest. National interests and love, are just cute ways to try and make your personal interest sound bigger and more important than it really is.

People hate immigrants, mainly because they feel it will threaten their own personal benefits (jobs, money, social benefits, etc.). I would agree that immigrants do threaten the well being of the native population in our current global capitalist system.

Let's just stop lying about all this patriotic shit, and just admit we're all selfish.

[Buzz62]

My point is, fighting for national family, out of love, is too a convenient fiction. At the end, fighting for your nations domination, is fighting for your selfish benefit. Money, power, jobs, etc. etc. Having a love for your nation, means that you want the best for yourself, which means you are wiling to fuck over anyone not in your nation. Again, it's always about self interest. National interests and love, are just cute ways to try and make your personal interest sound bigger and more important than it really is.

People hate immigrants, mainly because they feel it will threaten their own personal benefits (jobs, money, social benefits, etc.). I would agree that immigrants do threaten the well being of the native population in our current global capitalist system.

Let's just stop lying about all this patriotic shit, and just admit we're all selfish.

Maybe you're selfish and can't understand patriotism?

Be that as it may...what does

This invasion is happening because those in power in Europe are benefiting from what you are describing as an invasion. No need to use the military for their personal benefit.

Mean please?
What benefit?

[Rancid]

Maybe you're selfish and can't understand patriotism?

Be that as it may...what does

Mean please?
What benefit?

I can certainly understand patriotism. Patriotism is about the protection and expansion of what you have. Protection of your personal benefits would be things like, a stable and growing economy, a stable government, etc. etc. Most importantly, it's the protection of these personal benefits without regard to those outside your nation (because, fuck'em, they aren't us). This makes it easier to justify meddling and toppling foreign governments for example. This makes it easy to justify cutting deals with dictators, say the Saudi Family for oil (human rights violations there, be damned), or African dictators so that your companies can setup shop and main their resources. All the while the native citizens of those nations are left poor and suffering.

Understanding this clear definition of patriotism (because "Love for your country" is not clear and is a very nebulous definition), it's easy to see why it's such a useful tool to convince people to be a patriot.


Those in power in Europe benefit from this invasion. The business elites get an expanded labor which depresses wages. Your politicians can easily win the votes of immigrants just for letting them in, and allowing them to use social benefits. Not to mention, often the business elites are also government officials. They get personal benefits. Clearly, that's what they care more about than you. If the winds blew a different way, and it made sense again to shutdown borders, and push the patriotism line down to citizens, they would do that in a heart beats.

It's all about politicians and business elites doing whatever benefits them at the current moment.

[Beren]

I'd be willing to fight a civil war for my country, but I wouldn't fight for Orbán's Hungary. I'd rather leave it, it's like we're being occupied by Russia anyways. However, I'd be willing to fight for the EU, mankind, Earth, and my principles, especially if I could command one of these: