[Pants-of-dog]

A spectrum is a binary with graduation, varying degrees of for or against, perfectly in the middle there may be indifference. Clearly you are not indifferent.

Opinions about Muslims do not exist on a spectrum betwen two binaries. Someone could think, for example, that Muslims are actually time travelling alien shapeshifters infected with vampirism that can only be cured by watching Benny Hill. This opinion would not fit on your supposed spectrum.

Do you support sharia for Europe?

Nope. In fact, anyone who read my posts carefully would know that.

It's not like I never mention freedom of religion.

To think otherwise would require you to ignore what I actually post and instead substitute some weird idea that only exists as the complete opposite to your own position.

[SolarCross]

Opinions about Muslims do not exist on a spectrum betwen two binaries. Someone could think, for example, that Muslims are actually time travelling alien shapeshifters infected with vampirism that can only be cured by watching Benny Hill. This opinion would not fit on your supposed spectrum.

phobia is aversion, philia is attraction. An Islamophobe is someone adverse to Islam it is incidental whether he is adverse for actual reasons (such how muslims behave or the content of the Quran and Hadiths) or imaginary ones like your vampire time travellers. Likewise for Islamophilia, one is no less an Islamophile just because one is deluded about the peacefullness of muslims.

Nope. In fact, anyone who read my posts carefully would know that.

It's not like I never mention freedom of religion.

To think otherwise would require you to ignore what I actually post and instead substitute some weird idea that only exists as the complete opposite to your own position.

So if you don't support sharia then you must be opposed to it?

[Pants-of-dog]

phobia is aversion, philia is attraction. An Islamophobe is someone adverse to Islam it is incidental whether he is adverse for actual reasons (such how muslims behave or the content of the Quran and Hadiths) or imaginary ones like your vampire time travellers. Likewise for Islamophilia, one is no less an Islamophile just because one is deluded about the peacefullness of muslims.

Yes, if we ignore all things except the one factor of whether or not people like Muslims, we can simplify it to a spectrum betwen two points.

I will not do that. Instead, I will look at the issue as it actually is.

So if you don't support sharia then you must be opposed to it?

Not necessarily. It is a logical fail to assume that a person must choose one of these two options. See the false dilemma article to which I linked.

But I am personally opposed to all religious laws.

[Hindsite]

But I am personally opposed to all religious laws.

Being opposed does not make one immune.

[Pants-of-dog]

Being opposed does not make one immune.

Sure?

What does that have to do with anything?

[SolarCross]

Not necessarily. It is a logical fail to assume that a person must choose one of these two options. See the false dilemma article to which I linked.

But I am personally opposed to all religious laws.

Then you are opposed to sharia, why not just say so, why all this dissembling?

[Pants-of-dog]

I never tried to hide my lack of support for Sharia.

The only reason you never noticed it is because you incorrectly made yourself believe otherwise.

[SolarCross]

So you are an Islamophobe?

[Pants-of-dog]

Look up "false dilemma" and get back to me. Thanks.

[SolarCross]

Look up "false dilemma" and get back to me. Thanks.

You have called people Islamophobes for being opposed to sharia, yet you are also opposed to sharia but exempt yourself from being an "Islamophobe"? Is that a double standard?

[Pants-of-dog]

No, unless you illogcally and incorrectly believe that the only criterion for determining Islamophobia is a rejection of Sharia.

Such a supposition would be contradicted by facts such as the existence of Muslims who oppose Sharia.

[SolarCross]

o, unless you illogcally and incorrectly believe that the only criterion for determining Islamophobia is a rejection of Sharia.

Such a supposition would be contradicted by facts such as the existence of Muslims who oppose Sharia.

I don't believe people who oppose the law of Islam can be considered muslims. Can you be a Christian and be opposed to the ten commandments or the golden rule?

If there are muslims who oppose sharia then perhaps they had best choose apostasy in order not to continue living a lie. Of course real muslims following their holy books will seek to kill those "muslims" but well all us Islamophobes are in solidarity with the apostates.

POD are you in solidarity with apostates? Or are they nasty Islamophobes too?

[Pants-of-dog]

I don't believe people who oppose the law of Islam can be considered muslims.

Since identity is not based on what you believe, this is immaterial.

Can you be a Christian and be opposed to the ten commandments or the golden rule?

Yes.

If there are muslims who oppose sharia then perhaps they had best choose apostasy in order not to continue living a lie. Of course real muslims following their holy books will seek to kill those "muslims" but well all us Islamophobes are in solidarity with the apostates.

Since this whole part is based on the erroneous premise that Muslims cannot oppose Sharia and still be Muslims, I will simply point out that redefining Muslim to mean "those who support Sharia" is a No True Scotsman fallacy.

POD are you in solidarity with apostates? Or are they nasty Islamophobes too?

Some are. Some aren't.

When did memes become a substitute for actual thoughts and arguments?

[SolarCross]

Since identity is not based on what you believe, this is immaterial.

So you don't have to believe in Qu'ran, Mohammad as God's prophet etc to be a muslim? POD logic is amazing! Oh wait.. do you have any evidence for this belief of yours...

You didn't answer me on whether you were in solidarity with apostates? You know they are kind of oppressed.

[Hindsite]

Sure?

What does that have to do with anything?

It has to do with the fact that you could still get your hands or head chopped off, whether or not you believe in Sharia law.

[Pants-of-dog]

So you don't have to believe in Qu'ran, Mohammad as God's prophet etc to be a muslim? POD logic is amazing! Oh wait.. do you have any evidence for this belief of yours...

This is a bait and switch.

You argued that you believe that Muslims who oppose Sharia are not real Muslims.

I contradicted that, so now you are pretending that you originally claimed something else: that Muslims believe in the Quran and believe Mohamed is the prophet of god.

The two claims are different.

Note that this discussion on what defines a Muslim is just a tangent of whether or not a Muslim who opposes Sharia is still a Muslim, which itself is just a tangent from the discussion on how we define Islamophobia, which is just a tangent of the discussion about false dilemmas, which is a tangent from our discussion where you accuse me of being an Islamophile.

You do this thing where you switch the topic each time you are proven wrong.

You didn't answer me on whether you were in solidarity with apostates? You know they are kind of oppressed.

You're right. I didn't answer.

This is because it is yet another example of you starting yet another different conversation that we will drop as soon as you come up with some other weird tangent.

-----------------

It has to so with the fact that you could still get your hands or head chopped off, whether or not you believe in Sharia law.

.....which was not the topic, so you just butted in and started talking about something else.

[SolarCross]

This is a bait and switch.

You argued that you believe that Muslims who oppose Sharia are not real Muslims.

I contradicted that, so now you are pretending that you originally claimed something else: that Muslims believe in the Quran and believe Mohamed is the prophet of god.

The two claims are different.

Note that this discussion on what defines a Muslim is just a tangent of whether or not a Muslim who opposes Sharia is still a Muslim, which itself is just a tangent from the discussion on how we define Islamophobia, which is just a tangent of the discussion about false dilemmas, which is a tangent from our discussion where you accuse me of being an Islamophile.

You do this thing where you switch the topic each time you are proven wrong.

I haven't been proven wrong. All you did was gainsay me and evade.

Do any imams oppose sharia? Does the qu'ran or hadiths oppose sharia? A muslim is by definition someone who:
Accepts Allah as the only god and the prophet mohammad as his messenger, the qu'ran is the message of that messenger. Sharia is derived pretty directly from the qu'ran and the hadiths. How the fuck can anyone be a muslim while rejecting the qu'ran? It's a contradiction.

Clearly it is dangerous to born to muslim parents but then come out as rejecting Mohammad and the qu'ran, real muslims will kill you for that. So many, many "muslims" never deny even while they don't believe. This is my point. I know plenty of "muslims" like this. My point is they aren't really muslims, they are just afraid of being killed.

------------

[Hindsite]

.....which was not the topic, so you just butted in and started talking about something else.

Here is the original post of yours, in which you are talking about Muslims and that you are opposed to all religious laws, which I was referring to:

Yes, if we ignore all things except the one factor of whether or not people like Muslims, we can simplify it to a spectrum betwen two points.

I will not do that. Instead, I will look at the issue as it actually is.

But I am personally opposed to all religious laws.

I then replied:

Being opposed does not make one immune.

Then you replied:

Sure?

What does that have to do with anything?

Then I replied:

It has to do with the fact that you could still get your hands or head chopped off, whether or not you believe in Sharia law.

Now you just replied with the following:

.....which was not the topic, so you just butted in and started talking about something else.

To me it looks like you were talking about Muslims and that you did not believe in religious laws. Sharia laws is what Muslims believe in. The fact that you do not bel;ieve in those laws does not mean you are immune to those laws, if they capture you.

[noir]

There was a time these words were considered "racists"

A reverse colonialism.

[Hindsite]

"Why do Muslims always seem to want to come to Christian countries?"

Either they are attempting to escape from parts of Islam or they want to convert all Christians to Islam or behead them.