[hartmut]

...
For me the EU is something that helps Europe be more wealthy, peaceful, prosperous, influential, and a better place to live than ever.

So for me. Thank you!
And this is not only some feeling, but clearly a fact.
EU brought the blood soaked fields our grandparents at last to peace and prosperity.

Well, there will be all ways some stupid babies who bite mothers breast.
..and propagate nationalism, neglecting European history.

[Albert]

lol @Beren

You agree with me = rational smart intelligent.
You disagree with me = irrational right-winger who argues from emotions.

You would make one bad husband.

Also it seems Beren dislikes democracy. As it has been through undemocratic means, that the EU project has gone as far is it has. As it has been through means of secrecy and at times outright deceptions and manipulation of democratic process that this project has been able to go ahead at many times of its short history.

I'm glad to see that Baren has such low regard for democratic principles, just like neo-nazis and nazis in general.

[Rugoz]

EU brought the blood soaked fields our grandparents at last to peace and prosperity.

Peace? Seriously?

1. The Cold War brought peace to Europe.
2. A political regime cannot derive its justification from "bringing peace". What are you, a Hobbesian?
3. I doubt anyone opposes cooperation for the purpose of guaranteeing peace in Europe.

[Igor Antunov]

Translation: France and Germany to double down on the kind of behaviour that is alienating the rest of Europe.

As I prophesized before, EU can turn into a single state, as long as it shrinks significantly. Eastern Europe, Southern Europe, not going to happen.

France, Spain, Germany, the low countries perhaps, that's it. And a compromised migrant riddled clusterpoop it will be, weekly peace truck rallies to be held in pedestrian zones.

[Beren]

Eastern Europe, Southern Europe, not going to happen.

Maybe you would have said the same regarding whether they would ever join the EU ten years before they did. Who would have thought such a thing could ever happen as long as the Soviet Empire existed? It looked like a dream that never comes true for most people. Maybe you would have said the same some decades before Hungary switched sides between Byzantium and the West 1000 years ago. This is the beginning only. Sooner or later those states will do anything to fulfil the requirements to join the European superstate like they did to join the EU.

[B0ycey]

Um. Interesting. @Albert is in Canada, @Rugoz Swiss, @Kaiserschmarrn, an Austrian in New Zealand and @Igor Antunov Australian. All strong Brexiteers. Why? The EU UK affairs have little impact on the nations you are residing in.

As for the OP, France and Germany have a shared interest. It makes sense to strengthen ties. It would be prudent to create new relationships between themselves and push for more continentally friendly policies to unite the continent overall. Why would anyone criticise this? The UK unfortunately is going to leave the EU. So any opinion or influence they had should rightly go into the waste bin. You are either part of the club of you aren't. The UK shouldn't rely on anything now from the continent. And any interference should remain within Downing Street.

As for the EU, they can no longer rely on the US whilst Trump is in power. The Cold War is over and Europe has become wealthy and influential. I consider Europe today links of a chain. Individually they can't pick much up. United they are the biggest market in the world, a nuclear power and have a quite large army. They are also intensely principled. So could the EU become the next Superpower? Without a UK veto, perhaps.

[Decky]

Rugoz is correct, Britain would have left the EU (or the EEC) at any point in the last few decades where the people were consulted on it. It has only happened now as this is the first point in that time where we actually were asked, it has nothing to do with politics in the US. The British people have always been against the Franco German Reich.

If you come from a non country like Belgium maybe being governed by a foreign dictatorship might seem like an improvement but that is not how it looks from a real country.

[Rugoz]

All strong Brexiteers.

Meh, I'm not even a Brexiteer, I probably would have voted remain as a Brit.

But confronted with ridiculous EU-fanboys...

[JohnRawls]

The EU is a troglodyte. It is attempting unification during a period of history when autonomy is the preference.
It makes sense to want to match the US and China as a third power, but the time has passed for this to work. Attempting to reestablish empire when it is out of favor can only be done through the most Machiavellian means.

Who do we "empire" exactly? Ourselves ?

Also are the Germans Empirying the French or the other way around?

[One Degree]

Who do we "empire" exactly? Ourselves ?

Also are the Germans Empirying the French or the other way around?

Why do you want a United States of Europe if you have no intention of using the power?
I used the term loosely to make that point. The USofE would seek expansion.

[Kaiserschmarrn]

Also are the Germans Empirying the French or the other way around?

It's always been the French thinking they can empire the Germans while reality turns out to be the opposite.

[Igor Antunov]

Maybe you would have said the same regarding whether they would ever join the EU ten years before they did. Who would have thought such a thing could ever happen as long as the Soviet Empire existed? It looked like a dream that never comes true for most people. Maybe you would have said the same some decades before Hungary switched sides between Byzantium and the West 1000 years ago. This is the beginning only. Sooner or later those states will do anything to fulfil the requirements to join the European superstate like they did to join the EU.

Because sense of cultural identity. It still exists in those countries. It isn't going away by choice. Only if the EU creates an army and physically invades and subjugates these places. Even then the cultural identity will prevail, as it did before outliving numerous empires.

EU is a compromised joke. All it can do is bribe and hope for pleasantries. There is a line that can't be crossed. IF it was called the German Empire and was highly militarized in the Prussian tradition, maybe I'd have some respect for it. It's just a bankster whore.

[B0ycey]

Why do you want a United States of Europe if you have no intention of using the power? :?:
I used the term loosely to make that point. The USofE would seek expansion.

Depends by what you mean by using power. The EU would be seeking expansion in terms of trade and influence. I doubt they would be interested in the US idea of expansion of occupied land of sovereign nations. I can't see the EU entering any illegal wars for the sakes of minerals either.

Because sense of cultural identity. It still exists in those countries. It isn't going away by choice. Only if the EU creates an army and physically invades and subjugates these places. Even then the cultural identity will prevail, as it did before outliving numerous empires.

EU is a compromised joke. All it can do is bribe and hope for pleasantries. There is a line that can't be crossed. IF it was called the German Empire and was highly militarized in the Prussian tradition, maybe I'd have some respect for it. It's just a bankster whore.

Every member has a veto. It is unlikely that Europe will become an independent superstate anytime soon, not because of identity but because of power. I can't see any government wilfully conceding all their power to Brussels. However citizens would be better off by alagamating into one nation. For example, rather than say the Greek crisis affecting the entire Eurozone, under one Union the responsibility would fall to everyone not just one nation. Greece wouldn't have needed the bailout and every citizen would be entitled to the same benefits. With one army you could save money on hardware requirements that could go into welfare. Less bureaucracy means easier trade deals and better laws. And of course more investment in new reform structures for poorer nations without needing to rely on individual governments to bring these required structures in place. There is a user called PEM who has created a movement of such a dream. Maybe with a generation of two as attitudes change from individual and self preservation to unity and equality maybe the EU could replace the US being the global topdog. And if they do I can imagine a more peaceful world. Certainly a cleaner one.

[One Degree]

Depends by what you mean by using power. The EU would be seeking expansion in terms of trade and influence. I doubt they would be interested in the US idea of expansion of occupied land of sovereign nations. I can't see the EU entering any illegal wars for the sakes of minerals either.



Every member has a veto. It is unlikely that Europe will become an independent superstate anytime soon, not because of identity but because of power. I can't see any government wilfully conceding all their power to Brussels. However citizens would be better off by alagamating into one nation. For example, rather than say the Greek crisis affecting the entire Eurozone, under one Union the responsibility would fall to everyone not just one nation. Greece wouldn't have needed the bailout and every citizen would be entitled to the same benefits. With one army you could save money on hardware requirements that could go into welfare. Less bureaucracy means easier trade deals and better laws. And of course more investment in new reform structures for poorer nations without needing to rely on individual governments to bring these required structures in place. There is a user called PEM who has created a movement of such a dream. Maybe with a generation of two as attitudes change from individual and self preservation to unity and equality maybe the EU could replace the US being the global topdog. And if they do I can imagine a more peaceful world. Certainly a cleaner one.

EU supporters, like US liberals, believe the political elite actually believes in the morality they promote. The evidence imo shows they are simply using it to get votes that will bring about the opposite. The belief in universal rights through greater centralization is an oxymoron. They are actually placing limits on your rights yet the supporters don't see the problem. Why do you need to limit rights if you are promoting them?

[Beren]

Because sense of cultural identity. It still exists in those countries. It isn't going away by choice. Only if the EU creates an army and physically invades and subjugates these places. Even then the cultural identity will prevail, as it did before outliving numerous empires.

EU is a compromised joke. All it can do is bribe and hope for pleasantries. There is a line that can't be crossed. IF it was called the German Empire and was highly militarized in the Prussian tradition, maybe I'd have some respect for it. It's just a bankster whore.

Another political credo from a right-winger, in short and confident sentences this time. It's amazing how much they love this genre. Anyways, culturally speaking Hungarians and other East-Central Europeans identify with the West rather than the East, and when Hungarians see that not only the Austrians but even the Slovaks live a better life in the eurozone or the European superstate than they do, they will get the right identity again, as well as the Poles and all the others will do the same I can assure you. It is a region swinging like a pendulum while leaning to the West basically.

[hartmut]

EU enthusiasts are frequently people who believe in promises. ..

Mr. Field Marshal, I would say it is not exceedingly unfair to call this a platitude.