[Decky]

So you say. You are standing on the side of Cameron, May, Napoleon and Hitler. A united Europe under the whip of the capitalists has never been a good thing for working class people and never will be.

[Ned Lud]

Particular states are only means to world revolution - and the bigger the better. I could just as well say you are 'on the same side' as most of the nastiest buggers in the Tory Party. It isn't actually a sensible way of thinking.

[Potemkin]

The Soviet people saved the world from Fascism.

By that logic, the German people were responsible for the Holocaust and for starting World War II. Are you really sure you want to go down that particular rabbit hole...?

For what it's worth , I haven't worn a tie for many years and I drink beer. My great-grandfather was the last Liberal in our family, and he still went on the hunger march from the Rhondda. You'll be wanting to study my accent soon. The last time worked in an election one of the comrades said, 'Ew've got as funny old twang to ew then!' Make of it what you will!

"I'm prolier than thou!"

[Decky]

I don't even own a tie so suck on that toffs! I used to have just the one for job inverviews many years ago but you can just join an employment agency and wait for phone calls telling you to just turn up at places and work so there is no need to go through the interview bullshit. This knowlege allowed me to discard it and become even more ideologically pure than I was before.

[Buzz62]

I don't even own a tie so suck on that toffs! I used to have just the one for job inverviews many years ago but you can just join an employment agency and wait for phone calls telling you to just turn up at places and work so there is no need to go through the interview bullshit. This knowlege allowed me to discard it and become even more ideologically pure than I was before.

While I would agree that Lenin's untimely death turned the Soviet over to a monster, I think you are completely naive to think Lenin's Soviet world would have been some utopian socialist structure.

[Decky]

I'm not a utoipian socialist. I am well aware that you can't make an omlette without beaking eggs (or as Stalin said, when a forest is chopped woodchips fly).

[Ned Lud]

By that logic, the German people were responsible for the Holocaust and for starting World War II. Are you really sure you want to go down that particular rabbit hole...?


"I'm prolier than thou!"

The first bit: can't see it. The incredible heroic defence of the USSR by its people remains the greatest achievement of the human race so far. The triumph of Hitler was just normal capitalist politics pushed to crisis point. The 'prolier' bit was just a response to Decky: take it or leave it alone - I don't give a twopenny!

[Potemkin]

The first bit: can't see it. The incredible heroic defence of the USSR by its people remains the greatest achievement of the human race so far.

I agree with that; their sacrifices saved us all. Even the British Royal Family recognised this fact - after the victory at Stalingrad, which proved to be the turning point of the entire Second World War, they presented Comrade Stalin with a ceremonial sword as a token of their gratitude. Iosif Vissarionovich Djugashvili, the son of a cobbler and the grandson of a serf, had come far....

The triumph of Hitler was just normal capitalist politics pushed to crisis point.

Yet it was the leadership of Nazi Germany which triggered the Second World War and which was responsible for the planning and execution of the Holocaust; without that leadership, none of those things would have happened. Likewise, without the leadership of Comrade Stalin and others during the Great Patriotic War, the Nazis would have overrun the whole of Europe, forever. You seem to be rejecting the whole concept of leadership, of authority. This is an essentially anarchist position, not a Marxist position. You really need to read Engels' essay On Authority, in which he laid out the basic case for the inevitability and the necessity of authority and leadership even in a socialist society.

The 'prolier' bit was just a response to Decky: take it or leave it alone - I don't give a twopenny!

How very proletarian of you.

[Ned Lud]

I agree with that; their sacrifices saved us all. Even the British Royal Family recognised this fact - after the victory at Stalingrad, which proved to be the turning point of the entire Second World War, they presented Comrade Stalin with a ceremonial sword as a token of their gratitude. Iosif Vissarionovich Djugashvili, the son of a cobbler and the grandson of a serf, had come far....


Yet it was the leadership of Nazi Germany which triggered the Second World War and which was responsible for the planning and execution of the Holocaust; without that leadership, none of those things would have happened. Likewise, without the leadership of Comrade Stalin and others during the Great Patriotic War, the Nazis would have overrun the whole of Europe, forever. You seem to be rejecting the whole concept of leadership, of authority. This is an essentially anarchist position, not a Marxist position. You really need to read Engels' essay On Authority, in which he laid out the basic case for the inevitability and the necessity of authority and leadership even in a socialist society.


How very proletarian of you.

Well, fair play, I did start off by forming an Anarchist Cub at school and reading 'Freedom' as well as the Manifesto - I was busy at fourteen. Ever since I served in the RAF even Engels couldn't convince me of the benefits of 'leadership'. If the Class can't do it without, bugger it!

[Heisenberg]

I used to have just the one for job inverviews many years ago but you can just join an employment agency and wait for phone calls telling you to just turn up at places and work so there is no need to go through the interview bullshit.

Luxury! We used to have to get out of the lake at three o'clock in the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of hot gravel, go to work at the mill every day for tuppence a month, come home, and Dad would beat us around the head and neck with a broken bottle.

If we were lucky.

[Cookie Monster]

I agree with that; their sacrifices saved us all. Even the British Royal Family recognised this fact - after the victory at Stalingrad, which proved to be the turning point of the entire Second World War, they presented Comrade Stalin with a ceremonial sword as a token of their gratitude. Iosif Vissarionovich Djugashvili, the son of a cobbler and the grandson of a serf, had come far....

The Sword of Stalingrad is one of the coolest WWII items. I hope one day someone gets the bright idea to write a post-apocalyptic story involving this sword and in which its history has become legendary/mythical, bit like excalibur in Arthurian legends.

[fokker]

We have results of parliamentary elections:

ANO 2011 - 29.6% (Babis)
ODS - 11.3% (right wing, anti EU)
Pirates - 10.7%
SPD - 10.6% (nationalists, anti immigrant)
KSCM - 7.7% (traditional communist party) - record low result
CSSD - 7.2% (social democrats) - record low result
KDU - CSL - 5.8% (christian democrats)
TOP 09 - 5.3% (right wing, pro EU)
STAN - 5.1% (anti centralists)

Austrian elections are nothing compared to change in Czech parliamentary elections. Now there are "pirates" in the parliament. Both left wing parties score record low results. For CSSD it may be finantially devastating. Babis is clearly leading, despite all scandals thrown at him.

[foxdemon]

Looks like a big blow for the traditional political elite. Yet another European country moves to the right.

The immigration crisis seems to be causing a lot of political problems. When will the EU’s leaders admit that political stability is more important than humanitarian causes? Oh well, I guess they are learning which is the greater priority the hard way.

[Sivad]

Looks like a big blow for the traditional political elite. Yet another European country moves to the right.

The immigration crisis seems to be causing a lot of political problems. When will the EU’s leaders admit that political stability is more important than humanitarian causes? Oh well, I guess they are learning which is the greater priority the hard way.

Maybe European liberals are really trying to provoke fascism? They gotta know by now that these policies are creating a lot of anger and hostility and all of it's being translated to political action. You feed a mogwai after midnight you're gonna get gremlins, if you do that knowingly then obviously you want gremlins. Here in the US the liberal politicians are all owned by the same private corporations that would most benefit from fascism and they've pretty much done everything they could to aide its rise over here, so maybe that's what's going on in Europe? Maybe politics is all just theater and the left and the right are really just two wings of the same bird of prey? Nah, that's probably just paranoia.

[Kaiserschmarrn]

Austrian elections are nothing compared to change in Czech parliamentary elections.

Agreed. This looks like a much more dramatic result than in Austria, which actually had a similar result once before which led to the famous sanctions by other EU members. There won't be any sanctions against the Czech Republic or Austria today of course which shows how much things have changed since then.

[Buzz62]

HURRAY!

[Beren]

Czechs don't like the EU perhaps, but Babiš does like its money for sure!

Czech government resigns as PM fights corruption allegations

Reaction to no-confidence vote deepens political crisis after Andrej Babiš was accused of abusing EU subsidy scheme

Robert Tait in Prague

Wed 17 Jan 2018 15.13 GMT First published on Wed 17 Jan 2018 10.34 GMT

The Czech Republic’s minority government has resigned, plunging the country into deeper political turmoil, as its recently installed prime minister, Andrej Babiš, fights allegations that he abused an EU subsidy programme a decade ago.

Wednesday’s resignation – a month after Babiš’ appointment – came a day after the government resoundingly lost a vote of confidence it had to win to stay in office.

It will continue as a caretaker administration while the Czech president, Miloš Zeman, decides what to do.

Zeman – a populist who has earned notoriety for xenophobic statements – had pledged to reappoint Babiš, a close ally, in the event of Tuesday’s confidence vote defeat, which had been widely anticipated.

But that promise may become meaningless because Zeman himself is now in political jeopardy after a worse than expected result in last weekend’s presidential election left him facing a nail-biting run-off against liberal opponent Jiří Drahoš next week.

Drahoš, 68, a former head of the Czech academy of sciences, has said he would not accept Babiš as prime minister because of charges filed against him by Czech police that one of his companies fraudulently obtained €2m (£1.75m) in European Union funds.

Babiš, 63, a billionaire tycoon who is the Czech Republic’s second-richest man, faces yet another potential setback when MPs vote on whether to remove his parliamentary immunity, which protects him from prosecution.

That possibility increased when a parliamentary committee voted on Tuesday in favour of stripping him of immunity before a vote in the full parliament, which will probably take place this week.

Babiš’s problems have compounded since last week’s leaked publication of a scathing 50-page report from the EU’s anti-fraud unit, Olaf, which alleged that multiple European and Czech laws were breached to win a small business grant for a countryside hotel and conference centre, known as Stork’s Nest, owned by his Agrofert conglomerate.

In a defiant press conference on Tuesday, the Slovak-born Babiš belittled the Olaf report and dismissed the charges as a fabrication by a “mafia” that he said had been robbing the Czech Republic.

“If I was not in politics, you would never hear about Stork Nest,” he said. “Of course, we will let parliament [strip us] of immunity. We live in a country where investigative institutions are independent.”

The most immediate threat to his political future may come from Drahoš, who finished second in a nine-man field in the first round of the presidential race with 26.6% of the vote, against 38.6% for Zeman. With the other defeated candidates now endorsing him and pledging their campaign resources, Drahoš is favourite to win the run-off on 26 and 27 January.

Drahoš has called having a prime minister who is facing charges “unacceptable” and said Babiš’s Action of Dissatisfied Citizens (ANO) party should not be given a second chance to form a government.

“If the ANO government does not win a vote of confidence at the first go, a member of another party should be invited to form a government,” he said.

Babiš’s predicament is a far cry from the strong position he appeared to hold after ANO – which campaigned against corruption and on opposition to the EU’s migrant relocation programme and adopting the euro – won nearly 30% of the vote to become the largest party in October’s parliamentary election. But other parties have refused to join a coalition because of the criminal allegations against Babiš, meaning that with just 78 out of 200 seats in parliament, it is unable to form a majority.

Good job Czechs, your democracy has been turning into comedy as well!

Czech presidential election on a knife-edge as challenger cries foul

[Atlantis]

Czechs don't like the EU perhaps, but Babiš does like its money for sure!

The populist far-right has given up trying to destroy the EU. Le Pen doesn't even want to leave the Euro any longer, Babis, Orban, PiS, FPOe, et al., all are making more or less pro-EU noises. It's only the Anglos from overseas who keep up their EU-bashing because they have no idea about the political dynamics in Europe.

The danger now is that the far-right wants to usurp the EU to use it for its own purpose, a bit like Varoufakis wanted to turn the EU into a socialist experiment. They won't be successful because a truly pro-European agenda would undermine their raison d'être. In post-war history, only the 68-generation managed to successfully infiltrate the institutions.