EU-BREXIT - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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By Nonsense
#14858045
It's now absolutely clear as daylight, that the Tories are pulling the wool over the electorate that voted LEAVE in the EU Referendum.
A few months back, the UNDEMOCRATIC business lobby trundled into Downing Street peddling project 'FEAR' on Theresa MAY, since when she has committed this virtually BANKRUPTED nation into future poverty by agreeing with the EU into paying TENS of £ BILLIONS to the EU coffers.

David DAVIES has now let the cat-out-of-the-bag, by saying that the EU - UK BREXIT deal will favour Europe.

The TORIES have now, not only shot themselves in the foot, but their political head as well.

That metaphorical act will destroy them at the next general election, those who voted LEAVE will now opt for the 'nuclear option' of voting en-masse to CORBYN becoming PM.

'Leavers' have been BETRAYED, 'PUNISHMENT' will fit the crime, it's simply a question of time.

The TORIES have literally RUINED THE COUNTRY & they WILL pay the price.
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By Heisenberg
#14858046
It took you until now to realise this? :lol:

Brexit is what happens when a wholly unprincipled prime minister offers a referendum he has no intention of holding as a tactic in an election he doesn't really want to win, and it accidentally works too well. How anyone ever thought the Conservatives were "on their side" regarding the EU is absolutely beyond me. Britain is getting exactly what it deserves. :roll:
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By Beren
#14858054
It's amazing how much the EU was expected to crumble due to Brexit a year ago, and now it turns out that the UK is completely naked.

Image
By Atlantis
#14858121
Nonsense wrote:David DAVIES has now let the cat-out-of-the-bag, by saying that the EU - UK BREXIT deal will favour Europe.


That's what happens when the deluded start to face reality. But I can assure you that the Brexitters still have a far way to go to get to terms with economic reality outside the EU.

Leaving aside the constitutional and political crisis, following the referendum, the pound has crashed and many economic sectors are in crisis. Households are already worse off 600 pounds/year. Despite the low pound, manufacturing hasn't increased and the deficit hasn't been reduced. Inflation is up and spending power is down. Consumer confidence is plummeting and productivity continues to decline. And all of this even though the government keeps on pretending that, following Brexit, the UK will get substantially the same access to the single market as it has now, which all EU leaders have unanimously and persistently said is totally out of the question.

Brexit still hasn't happened and nobody knows if it ever will, yet the mere prospect has reduced the UK to the worst performing OECD country after years of strong growth. Before joining the common market, the UK was known as the "sick man of Europe." Brits seem determined to return to the "good old days."
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By layman
#14858124
Only small minded daily mail readers think the issue is the “divorce bill”

This is peanuts compared to the trillions in lost trade over the long term. Not to mention the massive expansion of government time and resources now devoted to this folly.

Such people are impossible to please though because they exist in a permanent state of privilege, ignorance and grumpy hatefulness. You could have Jacob rees mogg sitting on the throne, the hardest of brexits and and the demolition of the channel tunnel and they would still not be happy.
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By Potemkin
#14858146
Such people are impossible to please though because they exist in a permanent state of privilege, ignorance and grumpy hatefulness.

In other words, they're middle-class. The sense of entitlement of these people is so colossal and so entrenched that no matter what unearned privileges they are given, it's never big enough or fast enough. And if they are scolded, then they have a tantrum and burn down the family home. :roll:
User avatar
By Beren
#14858156
Atlantis wrote:Brexit still hasn't happened and nobody knows if it ever will, yet the mere prospect has reduced the UK to the worst performing OECD country after years of strong growth.

Well, the Lib Dems are openly against it at least.

BBC wrote:The Lib Dems' promise of a vote on the final Brexit deal, the centrepiece of its general election offer, would include an option to remain in the EU.

So there is still a chance to backpedal on this, but the Brits rather vote for the Tories, who have no vision, no concept, no plan, no road map, they have nothing except Theresa May, a growing confusion, and a controversial coalition partner. I also wonder how Corbyn and Labour would solve this.
By Nonsense
#14858218
Beren wrote: I also wonder how Corbyn and Labour would solve this.



That's a good question, as always with CORBYN, he has ALL the 'questions' but, NOT a clue how to answer any & I would not trust him for one second.

Here's why, ever noticed since his appeal for all sides of his party to come together, well, it seems that the 'progressives' have gone away, where's 'Momentum'?

Have you NOT noticed how these groups have 'disappeared', to be replaced by 'BLAIRITE'S', the treacherous traitors that lost Labour the 2010 election by abandoning 'Socialism' & the working-class?

CORBYN is NOT to be trusted on nationalising the utility companies, because they are not re-introducing a 'Clause-4' back into the Labour Party constitution, they believe that it's going to cost money, it doesn't need to, IF done correctly.

There are myths galore in the above post, I will reply to them.
By Nonsense
#14858228
[quote="Heisenberg"]It took you until now to realise this? :lol:

Brexit is what happens when a wholly unprincipled prime minister offers a referendum he has no intention of holding as a tactic in an election he doesn't really want to win, and it accidentally works too well. How anyone ever thought the Conservatives were "on their side" regarding the EU is absolutely beyond me.

CAMERON urged the Czech leader, Vaclav Klaus, through a letter(pre-Lisbon Treaty), NOT to sign the Treaty, thus upsetting Merkel & Sarkozy.

That's why we had the Referendum, it backfired(the letter) & everything follows from that.

Being for ' Brexit ' , but not 'anti-European', I believe he was right\correct to do what he did.

That's because what followed with the surge in migration proved the point, that most European countries, with their peoples, are 'Nimby's ' , in someone else's backyard, just not mine attitude.

That attitude is correct, because, no country's in the EU have the resources, or inclination(with hindsight) to cope with such changes, which are political constructs anyway.
To prove that point, the EU absolutely neglected it's borders in pursuit of 'one-world' fantasies rife in the 1960's, of, 'living-in-peace-&-harmony'(terrorist imports included)NONSENSE.

The massive over-population will haunt us for a hundred years, have you ever thought about how welfare benefits cost will be found to pay for all these migrants when an economic downturn happens, through no relevance of BREXIT?

The IDIOTS that want absolute freedom to go here or there, with no controls whatsoever, are complete head-cases, let them enjoy the imported terrorist, we now have a choice we never have had since the Maastricht Treaty, of either kicking the terrorist out or keeping them out, including their apologist.

Some people think that BREXIT is the cause of the falling £ Pound, 'IT IS NOT', that is a 'LIE', a 'TORY' LIE.

Anyone with a little knowledge of economics will tell you that the TORIES have mis-managed the economy, that the National Debt has TRIPLED under their stewardship of the economy & is costing £1.2 BILLION a week to cover the INTEREST PAYMENTS, CURRENTLY AT HISTORIC LOW LEVELS & THE BANK OF ENGLAND ARE STEALING YOUR MONEY BY NOT RAISING THOSE RATES TO QUELL INFLATION....UNDERSTAND???

NOTHING TO DO WITH HOW LABOUR 'MANAGED' THE ECONOMY WHEN IN POWER, WHICH WAS BETTER THAT TORY HANDLING,BECAUSE WHEN THE MONE RAN OUT, THEY WERE EXPOSED...NOT LIKE THE TORIES...BORROWING £1.4 TRILLION, PAYING INTEREST ON THAT, WHICH COST THE SAME AS THE INCREASED AMOUNT(BORROWED)BEING SPENT EACH WEEK WITH THAT 'BORROWED' MONEY...THE ECONOMICS OF THE NUT-HOUSE.

MAX OUT THE NATION'S 'CREDIT CARD', PRINT MORE MONEY(QE),REDUCE 'REAL' INTEREST RATES,SO THAT THE 'REAL' COST OF BORROWING MONEY WE CANNOT AFFORD TO BORROW,CAN BE BORROWED(SOMEONE'S GOT TO PAY THE MIGRANT BENEFITS)& MAKE OUR CHILDREN,GRAND-CHILDREN PAY FOR IT WITH NO FUTURE STATE PENSION, NHS PRIVATISED BY 'STEALTH'.
In war, those 'running' this country, would(deservedly)be taken out into the yard & shot.

WAKE UP & SMELL THE COFFEE...OH, WAIT A MINUTE...IT'S FAR TOO LATE BRO!!
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By layman
#14858234
So there is still a chance to backpedal on this, but the Brits rather vote for the Tories, who have no vision


Over a hard core socialist yes. How would they have fairer against Ed Miliband?

There is still simply no realistic common ground to rally round on this.

Well, other than the awkward list of various opt outs we already had and that worked perfectly well.

I doubt there will be any reversal. It’s just too awkward to say sorry at this point. Better to just calmly carry on.
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By Potemkin
#14858239
It’s just too awkward to say sorry at this point. Better to just calmly carry on.

A very British attitude, layman. :)
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By Heisenberg
#14858242
I reckon we should park a destroyer off the coast of Belgium before the next round of negotiations, and cite the Agadir crisis of 1911 as a precedent.

It's not like these negotiations are going anywhere, so we may as well have some fun with it. Jolly japes, and all that... :excited:
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By Sivad
#14858244
Atlantis wrote:the government keeps on pretending that, following Brexit, the UK will get substantially the same access to the single market as it has now, which all EU leaders have unanimously and persistently said is totally out of the question.


That's the crux of it, right? It's wild how the banksters and neoliberal technocrats have ensnared all of these nations into complex interdependencies that they can't extricate themselves from without causing massive economic upheaval. What if breaking the stranglehold of neoliberalism does require Western societies to endure a decade of economic chaos? Are we just not going to do it? Are we the kind of people that allow ourselves to be held hostage by criminals? Most liberals certainly don't seem to mind being subsumed into an undemocratic, predatory corporatocracy as the long as the pelf is flowing in, but hopefully enough of us are better than that.
By Atlantis
#14858251
Beren wrote:Well, the Lib Dems are openly against it at least.

The tragedy of British politics is that the center is empty. The Brits can only fall from one extreme into the other without ever finding their equilibrium. Moderates are split between Tories and Labor and can't make common cause. The fptp election system, a relic from the empire, has locked the country into a two-party system effectively preventing the formation of a center party. German coalition governments are solidly installed in the center, preventing the extremes from coming anywhere near power. Even in France, the presidential system has carried a centrist president to power who effectively sidelined the extremists on both sides.

The political elite in the UK will never muster the energy to reform the system. The only thing that can safe the Brits is the dissolution of the Union. Already today, the UK has become the laughing stock of the world, a little England with a joker like Bojo at its head wouldn't be able to keep up the pretense of being a global power.

Brexit, without actually having happened, has already given the EU a tremendous boost. Approval ratings have increased in virtually every member country, the far-right is loosing ground or giving up its opposition to European integration. While investment hitherto drawn to the UK by the lures of deregulation promised by the UK government is being redirected towards the continent, where it should have gone in the first place.

My instinct of backing Brexit has proved right. So far, things go according to plan. And the beauty of it: the Brits did it to themselves.
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By Kaiserschmarrn
#14858264
I don't understand why people still think there will be great economic upheaval. Even some banks are backtracking now when they are pressed to talk about their actual future plans. The Goldman Sachs CEO is praising Frankfurt while the company is actually building new offices in London. Similarly, UBS have said they will move up to 30% of personnel to the continent but now say it's unlikely they'll move anybody. By now anybody who has witnessed corporations threatening one thing or the other over the years (and not only in a Brexit context) should know that their claims need to be taken with a grain of salt. The massive exodus of the finance industry is not happening.

Also, the idea that Britain is extremist is hilarious.
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By Beren
#14858269
Kaiserschmarrn wrote:The massive exodus of the finance industry is not happening.

Maybe because Brexit is not happening too. ;)
By B0ycey
#14858270
Kaiserschmarrn wrote:Even some banks are backtracking now when they are pressed to talk about their actual future plans.



Someone forgot to tell the BoE then. Only yesterday they predicted 75000 job losses in finance due to Brexit.
User avatar
By Heisenberg
#14858274
Ah, yes, the Bank of England, that bastion of credible "forward guidance".

Even if it is true, I can't imagine most people will shed too many tears at 75,000 job losses in financial services. Vastly overpaid psychopaths and emotionally stunted dude-bros are hardly the most sympathetic characters. :lol:
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By Kaiserschmarrn
#14858276
Beren wrote:Maybe because Brexit is not happening too. ;)

I guess some still hold on to that hope.

B0ycey wrote:Someone forgot to tell the BoE then. Only yesterday they predicted 75000 job losses in finance due to Brexit.

That's not a direct BoE quote as far as I can tell, but a few weeks ago the BoE deputy governor was quoted with a figure of 10,000 jobs.

Heisenberg wrote:Ah, yes, the Bank of England, that bastion of credible "forward guidance".

Even if it is true, I can't imagine most people will shed too many tears at 75,000 job losses in financial services. Vastly overpaid psychopaths and emotionally stunted dude-bros are hardly the most sympathetic characters. :lol:

I wonder sometimes why people on the continent cheer this exodus on when most of them seemingly regard anybody in the financial industry as parasites at best and psychopaths at worst.

I'd agree that a bit less reliance on the finance industry wouldn't do the UK much harm, although ideally it ought to be a re-balancing at a moderate speed.
By B0ycey
#14858277
Heisenberg wrote:Ah, yes, the Bank of England, that bastion of credible "forward guidance".

Even if it is true, I can't imagine most people will shed too many tears at 75,000 job losses in financial services. Vastly overpaid psychopaths and emotionally stunted dude-bros are hardly the most sympathetic characters. :lol:


Perhaps not. But what is the London financial sector worth to the UK economy I wonder? There is a reason why the rest of Europe wants part of the action. Like Brexit, most people are unaware of the importance of this sector in their lives. So sure, what is 75000 well paid jobs when you can have more austerity but be able to raise the middle finger at that toff in the suit.
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