[Decky]

Ah, so the reformation was a mistake. Then would you say we need to abandon the Westphalia doctrine?

Of course the reformation was a mistake. The Westphalia doctrine however was not. The first edition of Britain's Road to Socialism (the one Stalin read and approved of) explicitly states:

NATIONAL INDEPENDENCE OF THE BRITISH PEOPLE AND OF ALL PEOPLES OF THE BRITISH EMPIRE
The Communist Party fights for the national independence and the true national interests of the British people and of all the peoples of the British Empire.

The subjection of Britain to American imperialism is a betrayal of the British people in the interests of big business and of those who are planning a new world war. In the economic sphere, Britain has been turned into a satellite of America, and an American monopolist placed in supreme command of Britain’s industry and American economic controllers and supervisors established in London and reporting to Washington. American big business controls our financial policy, imposes trade restrictions and bans, openly dictates policy, as in the case of devaluation, and is extending the network of American financial penetration and control over British industry. In the military sphere, Britain has been turned into an American base, and the American army of occupation is growing. The new arms programme was decided on American instructions, and under the Atlantic Pact, Britain’s armed forces have been placed under an American Supreme Commander. The British Empire, similarly, has been subjected to increasing American financial and military penetration.

For the first time in its history, our country has lost its independence and freedom of action in its foreign, economic and military policy to a foreign power—the United Slates of America.

The Labour Government and its advisers dare take no major step without American permission, and the leaders of the Tory and Labour Parties compete with one another in servility to the Americans. The leaders of the Labour and Tory Parties have become spokesmen of a foreign power.

Concerned only to defend capitalism and profit, the Labour leaders and the Tories openly betray Britain’s national interests. Such differences as they allow themselves with America are those of the bankrupt junior partner striving to retain what it can in face of American pressure.

The restoration of British national independence, which has been given away by the leaders of the Tory, Liberal and Labour Parties, is the indispensable condition for Britain’s recovery and political, economic and social advance.

The Communist Party declares that the leaders of the Tory, Liberal and Labour Parties and their spokesmen in the press and on the B.B.C. are betraying the interests of Britain to dollar imperialism. Our call is for the unity of all true patriots to defend British national interests and independence.

We stand for a Britain, free, strong and independent. We want our country to be subordinate and subservient to no foreign power, but to stand in friendly association and equal alliance with all powers that recognise and respect Britain’s national interests.

The Communist Party would break with the policy of sell-out to America. It would restore to the British Parliament its exclusive sovereign right to control the country’s financial, economic and military policy, close the country to foreign capitalist penetration and restore the command of the British Armed Forces to British commanders.

To restore control of its own affairs to Britain, so that Britain’s, power could be used on the basis of an independent foreign policy, would be a great contribution towards the preservation of world peace.

The Communist Party therefore rejects all theories which declare national sovereignty to be out of date and thus seek to justify enslavement to American imperialism or aggression against other nations. Real international co-operation can be based only on the sovereign freedom and equal rights of all nations, great and small. Because of this, the cause of Britain’s national independence is bound up with ensuring that all nations in the present Empire also enjoy full national rights and independence.

Within the British Isles, the enforced partition of Ireland and the maintenance of British troops in Northern Ireland must be ended, to enable Irish national unity to be realised. There must be full recognition of the national claims of the Scottish and Welsh peoples, to be settled according to the wishes of these peoples.

The nation state is a good thing and allows socialism to be developed. Anything else just leads to slavery to transnational bodies like NATO, the EU and the (((IMF))) and (((World Bank.)))

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism_in_One_Country

[Rich]

I suppose the basic problem they face is that, following the collapse of fascism as a credible ideology in 1945, they were left with a stark choice between economic liberalism or statist socialism.

Absolutely not true. The Conservative governments of the late 1940s, 50s and 60s could not be in anyway be described as economic liberal fundamentalist. I mean even now only a liar or an idiot could describe the current British Conservative government as classical liberal. If Gladstone could see Britain now he'd think that the Communists had taken power. And this is after the so called market liberalisations of the 1980's and 90s. Britain at the end of world war II was a socialist country, not a Communist country, not left Socialist country but undoubtedly a socialist country.

War is the most socialist activity there is. The WWI generals might have fought the war behind the lines, but their sons sacrificed themselves for the national /patriotic collective in huge numbers, and their daughters gave out white feathers to any young aristocratic men who sought to use their privilege to evade sacrificing for their country. Meanwhile large numbers of the most heavily unionised manual workers were exempted from military service.

Traditional conservatism died for the same reason that Soviet Communism died, the elite just stopped believing in it. It was Governor Ronald Reagan that introduced no fault divorce. I watched the second series of the Crown recently. I think it does it fairly good job of showing crucial stages to the comprehensive collapse of a comprehensive moral frame work.

[annatar1914]

But, you contradict what Potemkin wrote. If international finance capitalism is the destroyer of families and lives, then it’s reduction would aid social conservative values.

I'm not contradicting Potemkin, i'm essentially in agreement with you and with him in that assessment. I want to be more clear perhaps; I came at my Socialism from an Orthodox Christian perspective, not really a Marxist or Marxist Leninist one. I am of course overjoyed that secular thinkers can come to the same conclusions as I have more or less independently, but I also feel that a good deal of their thinking is, ironically, a product of a non-believing Bourgeosie age and therefore perhaps not the best when it comes to solutions that may not be spiritually informed.... Although the Spirit blows where He will, so I do not judge too much regarding people's motivations.

Action is after all, what is important.