[Atlantis]

The Christian Union parties and the Social Democrats have reached preliminary agreement for forming a coalition government. The agreement needs to be sanctioned by the SPD party base before formal coalition talks can start.

Following losses in last year's election, the SPD had categorically excluded another GroKo (grand coalition) which tends to strengthen the political extremes on the right and left and weakens the center, but considering that the alternative Jamaica Coalition (CDU + CSU + FDP + Greens) had failed, the Social Democrats were under considerable pressure to assume the responsibility for national government the voters had placed in them. With the increase of parties represented in Parliament, new elections probably wouldn't make forming a government any easier.

The parties agreed not to increase taxes and gradually reduce the Solidartiy tax for East Germany reconstruction. They also agreed to spend about 90 bln more on various projects including education, child care, Europe, etc. The deal on refugees includes limiting family reunions for refugees without full asylum status. A calender for exiting coal is to be decided by the end of the year, and the delays in emission reduction are to be reduced as much as possible.

Chancellor Angela Merkel says exploratory talks in Berlin between her conservatives and rival Social Democrats are to go on to formal coalition negotiations. The SPD's Martin Schulz says he'll ask his party to proceed.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel, Bavaria's Horst Seehofer and lead Social Democrat Martin Schulz have recommended the opening of formal next-stage negotiations on a possible "grand coalition."

Merkel told a Berlin news conference that the participants in exploratory talks — underway since Sunday — had overcome their reservations.

Schulz said all 13 Social Democrat (SPD) negotiators had endorsed the preliminary deal. "Excellent results" had been achieved, he said.

Friday's joint leadership news conference took place at SPD headquarters.

The draft policy document — texted by potential coalition intermediaries meeting overnight at SPD party headquarters in Berlin — spanned 28 pages, reported DPA.

A "breakthrough" had also earlier been reported by Germany's parliamentary television channel Phoenix, adding that amendments to the text had been sought, especially among the SPD.

Deal on tax, migrants

Some details have emerged from the draft copy, with DPA reporting that the sides had agreed to keep the top tax rate at 42 percent rather than raising it to 45 percent as wanted by the Social Democrats.

An agreement was also reportedly reached to limit the number of migrant family members who will be allowed to join asylum seekers in Germany, as well as the overall number of migrants allowed in the country each year.

Draft elements also include "full employment," boosted housing schemes, a law allowing skilled labor immigration, a nationwide support scheme for Germany's poorly developed regions, stabilized pensions — notably for low earners such as mothers, and electricity delivery based on 65 percent on renewable sources by 2030.

Long wait

Germany, which voted on September 24, has been in limbo at federal government level since November's collapse of exploratory talks, declared by the liberal Free Democrats (FDP), which had been negotiating with Merkel and the Greens.

A caretaker federal government led by Merkel is still in place.

Schulz' SPD hesitant

The recommendation by Schulz to form a "grand coalition" will be put before an SPD party conference in Bonn on 21 January for a final decision. After the September elections, Schulz initially rejected the idea of a renewed coalition partnership with Merkel's conservatives.

The last phase of exploratory talks, spanning 24 hours from Thursday into Friday, reportedly centered on how to fund various tax, social welfare and health initiatives.

They were priced at more than double the €45 billion euros ($54 billion) available to be spread over a four-year government term, according to DPA.

Marathon talks since Sunday

The 39 negotiators - 13 from each party - had begun the exploratory talks last Sunday.

Their aim had been to hash out policy alignments before deciding to commit to formal coalition talks between Merkel's Christian Democrats, Seehofer's conservative Bavarian Christian Social Union and Schulz' center-left Social Democrats.

DW

[noir]

Germany. Latest polling shows grand coalition between CDU/CSU and SPD wouldn't have a majority anymore.

The AfD increases by one point and reaches 15 percent. Two points less than SPD. The results show dramatic changes in postwar German political map but not enough to effect the demographic trend. In the interim, the "far right" may seems stronger but the demographic trend is irreversible, in 10 or 20 years, some of the European countries will be home to an Islamic movement that will 'only' serve as kingmaker in local elections. But it will be so influential in the general population that it will dictate the tone in everything it wishes. Right now, there are no Islamic parties in Europe.

[Igor Antunov]

So Germany will be left with a lame duck government in every way. Auto-pilot at a time when millions of 'undocumented migrants' are pouring into the EU. How is it going to lead EU policy?

This puppy is going to collapse.

[hartmut]

So Germany will be left with a lame duck government in every way. Auto-pilot at a time when millions of 'undocumented migrants' are pouring into the EU. How is it going to lead EU policy?

This puppy is going to collapse.

Oh dear, you might wish so.
But we are no "puppy".
What a strange idea. Equally strange seems to be the perception that a coalition of SPD/CDU-CSU will be a "lame duck government". Quite the opposite would be fact. It would be a government with the highest possible effect in comparison to any other combination,
.. not to talk about other nations, like UK.

But still the thing is not done.
SPD-members have to vote. The outcome is insecure.

[hartmut]

By the way..
there is a blueprint, which UK lacks severely in present days,
and we in Germany could lack tomorrow.

[Potemkin]

By the way..
there is a blueprint, which UK lacks severely in present days,
and we in Germany could lack tomorrow.

What would Germany be without ze masterplan blueprint?

[Atlantis]

So Germany will be left with a lame duck government in every way. Auto-pilot at a time when millions of 'undocumented migrants' are pouring into the EU. How is it going to lead EU policy?

I don't blame you Igor. You don't know anything about Europe and this forum certainly isn't helping in that respect.

The last thing Germans want to do is lead Europe. They are quite happy for Macron to do the leading. Too bad Russia is going down the drain. Would have been nice to have an EU-Russian alliance. But well, we can't have everything.

What would Germany be without ze masterplan blueprint?

GB never needed a plan because it had gunships. Did somebody tell dear Theresa that the navy is ill-equipped for D-day 2.0?

[noir]

Sadly the Europeans also don't know nothing about Europe, thanks to homogenic censored media. The Germans are the worst in the lack of democratic free speech.

[noir]

^"The last thing Germans want is to leade Europe". So what? The people has very limited role in German political system. It's the business driven elite that has the last word, and they can manipulate the public opinion with compliant political, media, and educational systems produced throughout the EU that uniform political thinking known as "political correctness," so implacably opposed to any divergent opinion.


Martin Schulz, the embattled leader of the Social Democrats (SPD), will take over as foreign minister in a move likely to infuriate the German voters who opted for more eurosceptic parties in last year’s election.

[Igor Antunov]

Too bad Russia is going down the drain. Would have been nice to have an EU-Russian alliance. But well, we can't have everything.

lol

[Albert]

I've read about this before, France on its own can not lead the EU. Regardless if Germans want to lead EU project or not they by ways of circumstance are the leaders of it now. With hung government now the leadership is basically not there now. You got the clown Macron in Paris, but he is no way even capable of leadership of the kind that is required right now to get EU out of the mess it created for itself.

Even when Germans come around with a functional government, there is still issues to fix, and with Markel and Macron, things do not look bright for EU. Brits should be thanking their working-class everyday for getting Britain out of this mess that is called the EU.

[Atlantis]

I never doubted that the Union parties (CDU/CSU) would be able to sign a coalition agreement (179 pages) with the Social Democrats (SPD). The question now is whether the half a million SPD members will vote for the agreement. Other parties don't have their members vote on this. The SPD used the vote as leverage to get concessions from the CDU, which includes 3 key ministries (foreign, finances and justice). In addition they also got substantial concessions on social and European issues. They agreed on an independent budget for the eurozone, and the SPD minister of finance will take a different view on Europe than Schaeuble. All in all, this is good news for Europe.

It all depends on the SPD members now. The vote is basically undemocratic because it gives 5% of the population a final say on the government after the general election, but the supreme court refused to ban the vote. If the coalition fails, there will be new elections in a couple of months, in which the SPD would lose massively. But we should never underestimate the self-destructive energy of the left. The left-wing of the SPD, which opposes the coalition on principle, started a campaign recruiting new members by telling them they could join the party for 10 euros for a couple of months just to vote against the coalition. All of this will further damage the Social Democrats. If they keep it up, they'll be replaced by the AfD.

Merkel really went out off her way to help the Social Democrats survive, but nobody can prevent the left from self-destruction.

[Atlantis]

lol

You forgot to mention Japan, which has a debt/gdp ratio of more than 200%. Governments do take out loans for building infrastructure which serves future generations. Just like a company that never takes out any loans isn't doing any business, a government not using loans is just a pure waste.

You also forgot to mention that Russia has a tiny economy which is smaller than that of Italy and that it only survives on fossil fuels, which will become cheaper as supply increases and demand decreases due to renewables. Worst of all, the Russian oligarchy has become so corrupt after years of Putin's rule that it is completely incapable of reform.

All of this is very sad because I always had a soft spot for the Russians. Now that the Brits are leaving and Trump is fucking with everybody, a rapprochement with Russia would have been possible. I'm afraid, Putin is too entrenched in his way to adapt to changes.

[hartmut]

What would Germany be without ze masterplan blueprint?

Could be a slim advantage to have a plan at all.

[hartmut]

I never doubted that the Union parties (CDU/CSU) would be able to sign a coalition agreement (179 pages) with the Social Democrats (SPD). The question now is whether the half a million SPD members will vote for the agreement. Other parties don't have their members vote on this. The SPD used the vote as leverage to get concessions from the CDU, which includes 3 key ministries (foreign, finances and justice). In addition they also got substantial concessions on social and European issues. They agreed on an independent budget for the eurozone, and the SPD minister of finance will take a different view on Europe than Schaeuble. All in all, this is good news for Europe.

It all depends on the SPD members now. The vote is basically undemocratic because it gives 5% of the population a final say on the government after the general election, but the supreme court refused to ban the vote. If the coalition fails, there will be new elections in a couple of months, in which the SPD would lose massively. But we should never underestimate the self-destructive energy of the left. The left-wing of the SPD, which opposes the coalition on principle, started a campaign recruiting new members by telling them they could join the party for 10 euros for a couple of months just to vote against the coalition. All of this will further damage the Social Democrats. If they keep it up, they'll be replaced by the AfD.

Merkel really went out off her way to help the Social Democrats survive, but nobody can prevent the left from self-destruction.

I do not agree on some points.
O course it is some leverage in bargains to give the final decision to party members, if the partners do not do so equally.
But that has a longer tradition, going back, as I do understand, at least to 1993 when Scharping was elected by party members as chairman. A procedure not to be found at other parties.
And SPD-participation to the current government was also reached by the very procedure now to be applied.
You correctly spot a problem of lawfulness "basically undemocratic" .
There are different pov's on that in respect of constitutional law.
The mainstream of jurisprudence points to the fact, that parties with a high level of inner basic democracy, do not offend the constitution, but serve her.

One comment to Merkel. She is basically Social Democrat.

[foxdemon]

What would Germany be without ze masterplan blueprint?

But Potemkin! Why are you so suspicious? Jurgen the German proves modern Germany is a tolerant and accepting nation of people with nothing but the best interests of everyone at heart.

[youtube]doPR-6X9h7c[/youtube]

[Potemkin]

But Potemkin! Why are you so suspicious? Jurgen the German proves modern Germany is a tolerant and accepting nation of people with nothing but the best interests of everyone at heart.

[youtube]doPR-6X9h7c[/youtube]

Indeed, foxdemon. It is truly heartwarming the way our Teutonic friends have rejoined the fellowship of nations and placed themselves at the forefront of the struggle for a New World Order and a better tomorrow for ze Volk of ze new European Reich Union. We are in good hands....

[Atlantis]

In this year's carneval floats, Merkel is portrayed as a black widow who eats her coalition partners, with the title "next please." In front of her are the skulls from SPD leaders Gabriel, Steinmeier, Merz, Steinbrueck and CSU/CDU leaders Stoiber, Roesler ...



The former SPD leader is shown putting himself through a meat grinder with the play of words "selber Schulz" reminiscent of "selber schuld" which means "by his own fault."

[Beren]

I never doubted that the Union parties (CDU/CSU) would be able to sign a coalition agreement (179 pages) with the Social Democrats (SPD).

Did they write a book?

[noir]

Mutti looks troubled.