EU to target UK tax haven territories as trade negotiations begin - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

Political issues and parties in Europe's nation states, the E.U. & Russia.

Moderator: PoFo Europe Mods

Forum rules: No one line posts please. This is an international political discussion forum, so please post in English only.
#14879324
The UK's financial services, which make a big contribution to the national economy, depend on a vast network of tax havens in the British crown colonies. That's why Westminster has always protected tax havens against any measures to control them by the EU or other international bodies.

The City has prospered due to its privileged access to the single market and because of the vast wealth from all over the World that has been accumulated in the tax havens.

Since the UK is rapidly losing influence in the EU's institutions, EU countries which have suffered from a drain of financial resources will now be free to take effective measures against tax havens and tax avoidance schemes.

Demands to open up Britain’s shady network of overseas tax havens are set to be used by the EU as leverage to force concessions during Brexit trade talks, The Independent understands.

The European Commission will soon review whether British territories previously left off a Brussels tax haven blacklist should now be added – just as negotiations move on to the all-important future trade deal.

Publicly EU officials say the blacklisting process has nothing to do with Brexit, but separate sources in Brussels told The Independent British territories where billions of pounds are stashed will come into play.

EU finance chief says rich tax avoiders are 'vampires'

One official made clear the EU would “go after” them, while another said the UK Government must ask itself if it wants to fly in the face of British public opinion on tax avoidance.

EU commissioners in December produced a blacklist of uncooperative tax jurisdictions, in a bid to clamp down on evasion and avoidance, tackle “threats” to members states’ tax bases and take on “third countries that consistently refuse to play fair”.

But the 17 jurisdictions listed included no British Overseas Territories or Crown Dependencies, despite them being named in earlier EU lists and some being implicated in the Paradise Papers scandal.

The EU had agreed the blacklisting screening process would be put on hold for territories caught in Hurricane Irma, meanwhile the UK is said to have pushed back against tougher sanctions for blacklisted territories.

But officials confirmed to The Independent that the screening process will now restart in “early spring” for British territories including Anguilla, the British Virgin Islands and the Turks and Caicos Islands.

Other British territories – Bermuda, the Cayman Islands, Guernsey, the Isle of Man and Jersey – promised to try and address EU concerns to stay off the list, which will now be reviewed annually.

The Independent has been informed that as things stand it looks like Bermuda will be given a clean bill of health by the EU, but that outstanding questions remain for the Turks and Caicos Islands and Anguilla.

According to one recent study by Berkeley academic Gabriel Zucman, there is £1.4tn of “off shore wealth” located in the UK, Isle of Man, Jersey, Guernsey, Bermuda and Cayman Islands alone.

Meanwhile EU states including Spain, Italy, France, Germany, Belgium, Portugal and Greece are all countries with a higher than global average exposure to citizens and firms stashing wealth offshore.

Spokespeople at the European Commission said decisions on which jurisdictions to blacklist would be taken according to a strict and public criteria, not subject to any political pressure or consideration in Brexit negotiations.

But with the crucial Brexit trade talks to start in March, some officials privately acknowledge the dynamic is shifting, with the EU potentially using the process as leverage and vowing to pursue the territories for revenue post-withdrawal.

A European Commission source said it was “significant” that none of the territories were mentioned in the joint EU-UK report setting out the phase one Brexit agreement last month.

The UK has always protected them in the past. That is not going to happen in future

They went on: “The UK has always protected them in the past. That is not going to happen in future. We will go after them.”

MEPs have also spoken publicly about the need to avoid trade deals with countries who fail to assist in the fight against tax avoidance, and have previously named the UK as “slowing” the EU’s attempts.

It has also not gone unnoticed in Brussels that the British public have turned on tax-avoiding companies and individuals, following a spate of publicity around avoidance schemes.

Another Brussels source said: “The question is ‘would the Government of Britain want to put itself in a position where it runs counter to the public’s position on tax havens, in which companies can base themselves in and pay a smaller proportion of tax than they should be?

EU officials are to meet in February to flesh out potential sanctions against blacklisted jurisdictions that refuse to help the bloc track down revenue.

As well as the reputational damage of being on the list, “defensive measures” touted so far include withdrawing EU grants, imposing reinforced monitoring on transactions and increased auditing for individuals and firms using the jurisdictions.

They might also see the EU demanding mandatory disclosure of documents, tougher legal regulation and higher business costs. Financial penalties have not been ruled out.

Chair of the Treasury Select Committee Nicky Morgan said: “I’m sure there is scope for leverage. To be honest, if the EU thinks trade negotiations are going well they won’t make a fuss about our overseas territories.

“If they think they are not, they will. They will flex their rules according to what suits them best.”

She added: “We certainly don’t want out trade talks to be jeopardised by the action or lack of action by an overseas territory.”

A Government spokesperson told The Independent that the UK “is at the forefront of tackling evasion and avoidance” and it supports the development of the EU blacklist.

Treasury Select Committee Chair Nicky Morgan MP said the EU could use tax havens as leverage (Rex)

He added: “Overseas territories are separate jurisdictions with their own democratically elected governments and they decide their own fiscal matters.

“Thanks to our leadership, all of our Crown Dependencies and Overseas Territories with financial centres are committed to all global tax transparency standards, including the Common Reporting Standard that makes it harder for companies and individuals to hide their money abroad.

The Independent


Now, I'm just wondering how left-leaning Brits will defend the existence of British tax havens on Pofo. If even they can't defend it, I guess they will prefer to bury the issue under a carpet of silence.
#14879348
Rich wrote:I'm with the EU on this one although I'd like to see Monaco, Liechtenstein, Andorra and Luxembourg wiped off the man as well as Gibraltar, the channel Islands and the Isle of Man.

I'm not, those little countries offering bargain basement tax prices are what keeps the greedier taxmen from other countries from going completely lah lah and confiscating everyone's livers and kidneys for to feed their hounds.

You are basically baying for Lidl or Aldi to be shut down so that Waitrose can ratchet up their prices still higher.
#14879387
Rich wrote:I'm with the EU on this one although I'd like to see Monaco, Liechtenstein, Andorra and Luxembourg wiped off the man as well as Gibraltar, the channel Islands and the Isle of Man.

Yes, and Switzerland too, and EU members like the Netherlands, Ireland and Malta will have to straighten their act and close fiscal gaps that allow them to rob other countries. It's a bit like with the dominoes, once the first one comes tumbling down, all the rest will follow. Now, they are saying, if we come clean, there are still other tax havens that will take our business away. Once Westminster will no longer be able to use its veto in Brussels to protect the tax havens, we are going to see some real progress.

SolarCross wrote:I'm not, those little countries offering bargain basement tax prices are what keeps the greedier taxmen from other countries from going completely lah lah and confiscating everyone's livers and kidneys for to feed their hounds.

The theory that tax competition is beneficial has long been debunked. In fact, the current discontent that resulted in populist nationalist movements like Brexit and Trump is the direct result of neo-con ideology aiming to reduce corporate tax to zero. To compensate for the loss of taxes, social services (NHS), etc., have to be reduced and taxes on labour have to be increased, while taxes on capital gains are reduced. Punishing labour and rewarding sloth and greed is the fastest way of ruining your country.
#14879394
Europe created a monster called the EU and like any monster they need to be fed. EU wants to control the entire private sector, not just Europeans. Fiscal paradises is what keeps companies afloat with insane taxes some countries charge. Instead of lowing taxes so we wont need fiscal paradises they want to end the fiscal paradises to create more taxes and take absolute control of Europe. If that happens EU will not only impose the rules, they will own your dinner table, they will own everything
#14879406
Potemkin wrote:Indeed. We call it 'capitalism',


Capitalism has created the wealth the West has today. It's greed that is ruining economies. It is greed that has created a class divide and it will be greed that brings down the US economy. I once scoffed at the end of Capitalism as we know it. But the GOP tax bill along with unsustainable US debt means the global financial system is a ticking time bomb without major reform in tax receipts for major economies. Preventing tax havens is one bandaid of many needed before a forthcoming financial meltdown becomes a certainty. But perhaps I am being pessimistic.
#14879407
Capitalism has created the wealth the West has today. It's greed that is ruining economies. It is greed that has created a class divide and it will be greed that brings down the US economy. I once scoffed at the end of Capitalism as we know it. But the GOP tax bill along with unsustainable US debt means the global financial system is a ticking time bomb without major reform in tax receipts for major economies. Preventing tax havens is one bandaid of many needed before a forthcoming financial meltdown becomes a certainty. But perhaps I am being pessimistic.

I'm a commie, so everything you just described sounds like optimism to me. :)
#14879410
Potemkin wrote:I'm a commie, so everything you just described sounds like optimism to me. :)


Unfortunately Pote, Capitalism in some form will always exist. I do however see the rise of Socialism.

Brexit and Trump has unshackled the EU and they seem to have the foresight to bring in new measures and new relationships with a socialism overtone to them to counteract these acts. The UK seems more interested in preserving the US relationship. But I can't see how many straws the US poor can withstand before the next financial bubble bursts over there again. Keeping all the money for the top 1% means that when the bubble does burst, the poor will be crippled and won't be able to buy anything - especially if the Dollar was to inflate. And the banks who credit this debt will also be fucked. So perhaps the UK should look East rather than West. Or maybe remain part of the EU. Isolation doesn't suit the UK, yet that is what we have to look forward too. And shackling up to the biggest bully in the playground means we will be have to be Trumps poodle and that alone is not worth thinking about! :|
#14879437
Potemkin wrote:Indeed. We call it 'capitalism', Atlantis. :)

The simplistic opposition of capitalism against socialism is as useful as a hole in the knee. It has no real-world correspondence and it has no real world-use. It's a construct of the dogmatic mind.

We have the social market economy that combines the best of both worlds. For anyone who is serious about real-world improvement instead of narcissistic navel-show, that is the way to go.

Potemkin wrote:I'm a commie, so everything you just described sounds like optimism to me. :)

That's a sorry excuse for tolerating tax havens instead of fighting them. That is hardly a credible position since you know that the wealth of your country and by extension your own wealth depends on them.
#14879482
Atlantis wrote:That's a sorry excuse for tolerating tax havens instead of fighting them. That is hardly a credible position since you know that the wealth of your country and by extension your own wealth depends on them.

They are just self-governing, so they set their own tax rates, small countries without much else to recommend them to foreign investors are wise, as a matter of self-interest, to set attractive tax rates. It's not an anglo conspiracy or else why does Andorra, Monaco, Liechtenstein and the rest do it too?

So the nice friendly EU doesn't just want to rule over their member nations but also rule over those who aren't even members. Will you invade them when you get your army?
#14879500
SolarCross wrote:They are just self-governing, ...


Then there is no reason for Westminster to protects its tax havens and the EU can finally stop them from robbing us blind.

I'm amazed that most Pofoers are so rich that they have to defend the existence of tax havens.

There is a huge gap between people pretending to be left-wing, on the one side, and advocating the most exploitative neo-con measures, on the other side. You folks completely lost any credibility you might once have had, and nobody is going to shed a tear when the European left gets dumped into the dustbins of history. Good riddance!
#14879530
Atlantis wrote:Then there is no reason for Westminster to protects its tax havens and the EU can finally stop them from robbing us blind.

I'm amazed that most Pofoers are so rich that they have to defend the existence of tax havens.

There is a huge gap between people pretending to be left-wing, on the one side, and advocating the most exploitative neo-con measures, on the other side. You folks completely lost any credibility you might once have had, and nobody is going to shed a tear when the European left gets dumped into the dustbins of history. Good riddance!

They are self-governing but still property of Her Maj, she would protect her properties. I would worry about Liechtenstein, Andorra and Monaco; who will protect them from Hitler 2.0 when he comes a knocking? My guess Her Maj and all Her jolly subjects will still have to come to the rescue (again) and she doesn't even own them. Perhaps she should own them if she must protect them anyway, they could all become Commonwealth Realms. 8)

If Hans Adam II, Prince of Leichtenstein cannot defend his realm from EU predators then perhaps he should bend the knee to those who can.
Last edited by SolarCross on 15 Jan 2018 15:07, edited 3 times in total.
#14879531
Potemkin wrote:Exactly, Beren! As the pre-1917 Russian revolutionaries used to say, "The worse, the better!" Hey, it worked for them didn't it? :D

If they wanted the Russian people to be communists, it didn't work then, it was being highly organised and dedicated that actually worked, without which the worse the better is just a "cool" slogan like accelerationism is just a "cool" theory. If they can never make a coup, communists can wait forever until it gets bad enough for them. Also, it had been Russia 100 years ago before Fascism was invented. In the Weimar Republic it didn't work at all, it was the worse the worse actually.
#14895890
Spon and Die Sueddeutsche report that the British government has prevented the EU from putting the British Virgin Islands on the EU's black list of tax havens. There are more than 400,000 letter box companies on that tiny island.

The British Virgin Islands together with the US Virgin Islands and St. Kitts and Nevis were to be added to the black list of tax havens; however, the British government, which had vehemently opposed the move, submitted a letter from the government of the Virgin Islands promising that the island administration would clean up its acts. Most other members including France and Germany had wanted to include the island.

The British defend their tax havens like an asset of utmost national interest. The pretense that the British have nothing to do with the tax havens is totally absurd.

This once again shows that there is no place for Britain in the EU.

They will never play fair, they will always bend the rules and lie through their teeth.

@KurtFF8 Litwin wages a psyops war here but we[…]

You should put the full quote I am of the o[…]

Muscovite’s Slaughter of Indigenous People in Alas[…]

Any of you going to buy the Trump bible he's prom[…]