[Albert]

A new strongman will be chosen out of the new oligarchy class that at this point begins to resemble a new aristocracy. This is where the real issue is. Russia does not just simply have a strongman, it is developing a class of useless idiots, who by virtue of birth possess extraordinary wealth and get into position of power. Granted if these people actually produced something of value and rule the country prosperously (perhaps the general populace would actually accept the new order). The thing is that they do not but just squander the potential of the nation. Putin and his people in years had done nothing significant, Russia is a gas station with nuclear weapons at this point.

This current state of affairs was created exactly because of corruption and nepotism that Putin and his comrades had fostered. Although it could be argued they themselves arose out of the chaos from the collapse of SU.

It is really become a struggle between the people and this new class of oligarchs, it is either the republic will win over or this new class will have to establish an oppressive dictatorship or monarchy. Considering that this new class of oligarchs is composed of thugs and opportunist, and not actually people of any legitimate virtue. I suspect the people are going to win over eventually.

[Balancer]

I had the impression of a parody of a democracy while I was watching RT.

The parody of democracy in elections is in the USA or Germany. Where the people (demos) do not choose the president at all

You can believe in myths about the power of Russian propaganda as much as you like, but in the election results, no sane person doubts. You can think that the brains of Russians are washed, but Putin's choice is a kind and honest choice. If people in Russia did not live well, the situation would not be saved by any brainwashing. People would not vote for Putin or would not vote at all. But this year voter turnout broke all records. People really went to give their vote.

[Zionist Nationalist]

The reason that putin is popular is a combination of many factors and not because people in Russia live well

pensions 10K rubles thats a joke and all those old people still vote for him

[Beren]

The parody of democracy in elections is in the USA or Germany. Where the people (demos) do not choose the president at all

Come on please. You can call US elections a shitshow, but there's still some competition and eventuality, so thus the results are not completely predictable and can be even surprising, while there is a complete script written by the Kremlin in Russia according to which the show is run. And don't even mention Germany please, it's the most functional republic among major powers in the world. Putin may be popular among the people and the people may be willing to give him their support, but Stalin was popular and people died for him too, his system still wasn't democratic at all, although there was even a constitution. After this parody all your propaganda is futile and counterproductive, you're just ridiculing yourself Balancer.

[Albert]

People vote for Putin because he has styled himself as the paternal leader of the nation, a father that has best interest of the nation at heart. In sense he actually does have those qualities. But he is completely missing the point on the whole republic thing nor is he interested in its idea. At the same time he is creating a political situation that is not sustainable.

Plus there is real deceit happening in Russia through state propaganda. Navalny this year has managed to shed some light on this. And significantly expose the extend of debauchery and greed of the new political class.

@Balancer
For how much American system is flawed, Trump got elected, if anything this shows American democracy is actually functional. Russian democracy today is a complete sham.

Ironically, Russian nationalism is what making change so hard to come by. People basically are loyal to Putin. So thus when corruption of the state officials is revealed, people just find it hard to accept that the nation has deteriorate so profoundly. That their own nationals have betrayed them so cruelly.

Sometimes the most upfront betrayals and lies are the hardest to accept. Putin is basically is a murderer and thief, who has lied to his own people. While styling himself as a paternal caregiver for the Russian people.

[Atlantis]

The parody of democracy in elections is in the USA or Germany. Where the people (demos) do not choose the president at all

You are ill informed. In Germany, the president is for decoration only. The power lies with parliament. The people vote for parliament, which then elects a government to run affairs under the oversight of parliament. In other words, the normal functioning of a representative democracy.

The terms illiberal democracy or autocracy are most fitting for Russia. Important functions of democracy: the independence of the judiciary, free press, the independence of the central bank are not guaranteed in Russia.

I respect the choice, for better or for worse, of the Russian people to elect a "strong man" for president, or at least somebody who can put up the appearance of a strong man. Putin was necessary to stop the sale of Russian assets to a bunch of criminals. Putin also prevents the Anglo imperialists from getting their hands on Russian oil and gas. Every ME nation needs its Putin. But the Neocons will make sure that that won't happen.

But Putin's rule can only deteriorate Russia's economic future prospects because the Russian oligarchy is neither willing nor capable of stemming the "resources curse" that will turn the country into a pariah.

So sad! Mother Russia is turning in her grave. And @igor wants to sell her remains to the Chinese. What is it that makes Russians so prone to treason?

[Albert]

As far as I understand illiberal democracy was coined by Erdogan and its proponents now are the Visegrad nations. It basically means democracy without liberal principles, particularity those modern progressive liberal principles of multiculturalism, equal right for homosexuals and such. Illiberal democracy does not mean no democracy.

One good example is that of Rome and ancient Athens, those were democratic states but they were not liberal.

As for Russia I do not think it is in the grave, it is just ruled by incompetent morons atm.

[Atlantis]

As far as I understand illiberal democracy was coined by Erdogan and its proponents now are the Visegrad nations.

That perfectly fits the context. Erdogan, Putin, the former Soviets satellites, all follow the same pattern. They undermine the free press and the independence of the judiciary in preparation of a on-party dictatorship. Turkey and Russia have just gone a little further in this process than the Soviet satellites who are held back by their EU membership. Outside the EU, they would have gone full retard by now.

It basically means democracy without liberal principles, particularity those modern progressive liberal principles of multiculturalism, equal right for homosexuals and such. Illiberal democracy does not mean no democracy.

These social values, which go along with the political trend I explained above, are also similar in all of these countries, but I think this is just a smoke screen. Eastern leaders are just as decadent as Western society, perhaps even more so.

One good example is that of Rome and ancient Athens, those were democratic states but they were not liberal.

You can only compare contemporaneous regimes. To compare today's ideologies with those of 2,000 years ago is meaningless.

[mikema63]

https://www.vox.com/world/2018/3/19/170 ... itarianism

Interesting related article for those not still pretending that Russia is a democracy.

[Balancer]

Plus there is real deceit happening in Russia through state propaganda.

And now try to explain from the point of view of Russian propaganda why the number of votes for Putin among Russians abroad has grown so much? In the UK (!) For Putin in 2012, only 27% of Russians voted. This time in London for Putin was 52%. In Israel for Putin 72% of voters. In total, more people voted for Putin than in Russia - 84.4%.

Are you saying that Russian propaganda has become so much stronger than the West?

Navalny this year has managed to shed some light on this. And significantly expose the extend of debauchery and greed of the new political class.

Navalny is a political loser. In vain thrown out the money of the West. If he had been playing fair, he would have had a chance. But he had already been caught so many times on an easily exposed fraud that he lost almost all his supporters. In 2012, he could collect tens of thousands of activists. Now there are only hundreds. The project "Navalny" began to be deflated at the same time, when in 2014 he accused Russia of annexation of the Crimea. It does not matter how much what is said corresponds to the truth, it is important that such a statement in Russia is a political suicide.

[Godstud]

Russia is a farce of a democracy. It's a dictatorship with actual people who could rival Putin either disappearing, or being found assassinated.

Can Russia Keep Faking Democracy?
Russia’s “fake democracy” is an exemplar of a post-Cold War global type of political governance that Steven Levitsky and Lucan Way call “competitive authoritarianism.” The roots of this system lie in the Cold War competition between the Leninist one-party state and free market liberal democracy.
https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/can- ... democracy/

You could argue the point about Assad, in Syria as well, although is strong-arm assassinate opponents thing, isn't there.

[Balancer]

Russia is a farce of a democracy. It's a dictatorship with actual people who could rival Putin either disappearing, or being found assassinated.

More propaganda! More hell!

You do not even understand how ridiculous these images look from the outside. You do not know the subject of the discussion and therefore always sit down in puddles. It's from the same opera in which Russians drink vodka from samovars with bears, dress in quilted jackets and play balalaikas.

[Albert]

@Balancer
You remind me of so many Russians who have just believe the propaganda and the circus Putin has created. Navalny has not been exposed for corruption, those were just trumped up charged against him that had no grounding. On the other hand do you think Putin is an honest man and is not involved in corruption? How come Putin seems to be the only honest one here? What he is the only honest politician in Russia now?

Opposition in Russia has been either suppressed, jailed or killed in Russia; Putin has blood on his hands. Not in the name of ideology (for brighter working class future) like communist or for better future of Russian nation, but rather in the name of primitive greed and power. The man is a bandit and a thug. He is no better then mafia of Italy, a mere criminal.

There can never me democracy in Russia as long as you have Putin and his bandits in position of power. Nor will Russia ever prosper as long as they are allowed to govern. It is humiliating to watch, they make mockery of Russian people and themselves. Putin is a national embarrassment.

[Balancer]

You remind me of so many Russians who have just believe the propaganda

There is a small difference between us. I see the situation from different angles. Both from Russia and through the Western media. You see only one.

[Albert]

What do you see that I do not see? You can with good conscience say that there is real opposition in Russia? Of coarse people will vote for Putin overwhelmingly if there are no reasonable opposition candidates allowed to run for government.

Putin is not the only honest man in Russia.

[Crantag]

There are perhaps more coarse people in Russia than refined ones, so that would tend to indicate that Putin would in that instance represent a majority.

A slow day here on my end.

[Godstud]

You do not even understand how ridiculous these images look from the outside. You do not know the subject of the discussion and therefore always sit down in puddles. It's from the same opera in which Russians drink vodka from samovars with bears, dress in quilted jackets and play balalaikas.

What is really foolish is when someone lambastes a person without knowing what they are talking about, and think that insulting one is a legitimate argument(check out what an Ad Hominem is). You assume people know nothing about anything, and you yourself is a professional? You have no argument, so you resort to deflection.

I suppose you use RT, a notoriously pro-Putin media outlet for all your Russian news?

[Albert]

[Balancer]

You can with good conscience say that there is real opposition in Russia? Of coarse people will vote for Putin overwhelmingly if there are no reasonable opposition candidates allowed to run for government.

Putin is not the only honest man in Russia.

Of course, Putin is not the only honest man in Russia. The problem is that honest people in Russia today are either politically inactive, or working with the Kremlin, even if they were recently in the opposition.

Here is a bright, fresh example. A few years ago Ella Pamfilova was an active oppositionist. By the way, she was actively promoted by the West as a fighter against the Putin regime.

http://www.newsweek.com/ella-pamfilova- ... ssia-71501

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-10819796

She criticized a lot of human rights violations, criticized the election campaigns of past years. And what does Putin do? He appoints her as the chairman of the election campaign!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/eu ... story.html

By the way, this, too, greatly increased confidence in the results of the elections in Russia. When counting is done by someone who has always tried to blame for dishonesty, then he has more confidence.

So, how should Panfilov be considered now, the opposition of the Kremlin or part of the Kremlin?

...

Can you call honest politically active oppositionists in Russia? Me not. And not because they are fighting. With the same Navalny not only do not fight, it is directly protected. Otherwise, he would have been in prison for a long time under Russian law. But it would be very bad for PR. That's why Navalny is free. Moreover, contrary to Russian norms and laws, he instantly received a foreign passport when he needed to fly abroad for medical treatment. Who else?

[Balancer]

You have no argument, so you resort to deflection.

I spent three years talking to American forums with arguments. But I realized that this is completely useless. The overwhelming majority of Americans opposed to Russia are not able to accept arguments that run counter to the official Western position. This is a matter of religious faith and the arguments are useless.

Do you want arguments? Let's discuss specific issues with specific examples, rather than brush aside arguments - "this is all Russian propaganda." Do you understand that there are no arguments against the latter in principle?