[Atlantis]

I support a very loose world confederation which must start somewhere. There is a need for combined resistance to aggression. Space exploration. Weapons limitations. Etc. It does not require it’s own large bureaucracy and should never be self funded. The creation of a large centralized bureaucracy is an indication your confederation will soon become a federation. The EU is neither but it is obvious where it wants to go.

The EU has a great deal of flexibility. It is in a constant state of shifting equilibrium between a Union of sovereign states and a federation. It will develop as conditions require. Trump is pushing the EU to further integrate. But even if the EU were one day to become a full-fledged federation, it will have a federal structure and not a centrally governed structure. Thus, even in your wildest dreams, the EU cannot become the centrally ruled organisation you claim it is. Now please, try to remember this. Because I'm sick and tired of constantly having to explain the same thing over and over again.

Anyways, you are profoundly dishonest in your portrayal of the EU. On the hand, you predict its eminent collapse due to centrifugal forces while, on the other hand, you postulate centripetal forces moving towards a centrally ruled empire. It's either the one or the other, you can't have it both ways. Life (and organically growing bodies like the EU) happens at the shifting point of equilibrium between centripetal and centrifugal forces, while the empire is inherently unbalanced.

[Beren]

Trump likes playing chess like checkers.

Trump doesn't play chess or checkers, he does business as usual. He runs the presidency as an enterprise and there are stakeholders in this enterprise who contributed to his campaign and have to be paid off, maybe he would call them partners, while he reaps his own profit as well. This wouldn't be anything unusual, Trump just improved politics as business to perfection. Entrepreneurial capitalism at its highest. I wonder if anybody really believes Trump has serious geopolitical, strategic, or even ideological considerations. He jumped into politics when he could profit the most from it, it was only a matter of timing, and this America First presidency is his way to do it.

[B0ycey]

Trump doesn't play chess or checkers, he does business as usual. He runs the presidency as an enterprise and there are stakeholders in this enterprise who contributed to his campaign and have to be paid off, maybe he would call them partners, while he reaps his own profit as well. This wouldn't be anything unusual, Trump just improved politics as business to perfection. Entrepreneurial capitalism at its highest. I wonder if anybody really believes Trump has serious geopolitical, strategic, or even ideological considerations. He jumped into politics when he could profit the most from it, it was only a matter of timing, and this America First presidency is his way to do it.

Very true Beren. But ultimately this is a short gain for long term pain. If the world rejects America, and I think Europe is on the brink here, and begin to look East, the Dollar is monopoly money and so is their globalisation corporate brands. Why buy from the bully who is raping you in the wallet when your neighbour offers you the same stuff for less?

[One Degree]

The EU has a great deal of flexibility. It is in a constant state of shifting equilibrium between a Union of sovereign states and a federation. It will develop as conditions require. Trump is pushing the EU to further integrate. But even if the EU were one day to become a full-fledged federation, it will have a federal structure and not a centrally governed structure. Thus, even in your wildest dreams, the EU cannot become the centrally ruled organisation you claim it is. Now please, try to remember this. Because I'm sick and tired of constantly having to explain the same thing over and over again.

Anyways, you are profoundly dishonest in your portrayal of the EU. On the hand, you predict its eminent collapse due to centrifugal forces while, on the other hand, you postulate centripetal forces moving towards a centrally ruled empire. It's either the one or the other, you can't have it both ways. Life (and organically growing bodies like the EU) happens at the shifting point of equilibrium between centripetal and centrifugal forces, while the empire is inherently unbalanced.

You call my portrayal dishonest in the same paragraph you justify it. The EU has the potential to go either way. It is just obvious, imo, they are currently choosing the same old power hungry imperialism everyone chooses. They aren’t the antidote to imperialism, they want to be the new imperialists while pretending to be something else.

[JohnRawls]

It is nice to see Americans growel about the EU or our relationship with Russia. If Trump is going to do bullshit to "allies" then do not mind us doing good stuff to our american "Ally" also. This might involve us lifting sanctions on Russia, evicting military bases, putting tariffs on your goods etc .

We were unwilling to play the empire game for a long, long time. So it is not our empire that is collapsing.
And when we want to play the empire game then we definately have the means to do it ourselves if needed.

[One Degree]

It is nice to see Americans growel about the EU or our relationship with Russia. If Trump is going to do bullshit to "allies" then do not mind us doing good stuff to our american "Ally" also. This might involve us lifting sanctions on Russia, evicting military bases, putting tariffs on your goods etc .

We were unwilling to play the empire game for a long, long time. So it is not our empire that is collapsing.
And when we want to play the empire game then we definately have the means to do it ourselves if needed.

Everything you said is a natural and expected response, but you are missing the point. There are two ways of responding; a federated imperialist Europe or a confederation against imperialism. The current direction is just creating another imperialist. Why not use Brexit and other dissatisfactions to show people don’t want another imperialist, they want an alternative. All you have to do is abandon the self righteousness that interferes with internal affairs of members social structure.

Edit: accidentally hit ‘submit’ before finishing my thought. Trump is not going to actually do anything to alienate Europeans unless they react as a competing imperialist power. This situation is created more by the existence of the EU and their apparent direction than by Trump alone. It had to happen.

[JohnRawls]

Everything you said is a natural and expected response, but you are missing the point. There are two ways of responding; a federated imperialist Europe or a confederation against imperialism. The current direction is just creating another imperialist. Why not use Brexit and other dissatisfactions to show people don’t want another imperialist, they want an alternative. All you have to do is abandon the self righteousness that interferes with internal affairs of members social structure. I

What are you blabbering about? Utter nonsense.

UK wants to leave the EU and EU is not forcing any decision out of UK. There are obligations and benefits that the EU provides. You are saying that we should let them have the benefits without the obligations. That is stupid and this is not how any organisation works. Because if that is allowed then everybody else will ask for the same deal. Obviously that is not going to work. It is also interesting how everybody forgets how many exceptions we did for those obligations for the UK before the Brexit mess even started. Or perhaps most people even don't know that. (Well either selective memory or historical illiteracy)

It is a hypocrisy to argue that the European Union is imperialist dictate while also leaving of your own free will without the EU interfering. It is also hypocrisy of the highest degree to argue that Europe is destroying your economy and then on the other hand asking the EU not to remove the economic benefits that we provide so that your economy won't grind to a stand still.

[One Degree]

What are you blabbering about? Utter nonsense.

UK wants to leave the EU and EU is not forcing any decision out of UK. There are obligations and benefits that the EU provides. You are saying that we should let them have the benefits without the obligations. That is stupid and this is not how any organisation works. Because if that is allowed then everybody else will ask for the same deal. Obviously that is not going to work. It is also interesting how everybody forgets how many exceptions we did for those obligations for the UK before the Brexit mess even started. Or perhaps most people even don't know that. (Well either selective memory or historical illiteracy)

It is a hypocrisy to argue that the European Union is imperialist dictate while also leaving of your own free will without the EU interfering. It is also hypocrisy of the highest degree to argue that Europe is destroying your economy and then on the other hand asking the EU not to remove the economic benefits that we provide so that your economy won't grind to a stand still.

I added an edit above. I bolded your own hypocrisy. The difficulties in Britain ‘freely’ leaving clearly demonstrate the EU is not a simple confederation. If they do not have federation/imperialist ambitions, then why the ideological demands on social structure? A confederation is limited to war and trade.

[JohnRawls]

I added an edit above. I bolded your own hypocrisy. The difficulties in Britain ‘freely’ leaving clearly demonstrate the EU is not a simple confederation. If they do not have federation/imperialist ambitions, then why the ideological demands on social structure? A confederation is limited to war and trade.

A confederation (also known as a confederacy or league) is a union of sovereign states, united for purposes of common action often in relation to other states.[1] Usually created by a treaty, confederations of states tend to be established for dealing with critical issues, such as defense, foreign relations, internal trade or currency, with the general government being required to provide support for all its members. Confederalism represents a main form of inter-governmentalism, this being defined as ‘any form of interaction between states which takes place on the basis of sovereign independence or government.

The nature of the relationship among the member states constituting a confederation varies considerably. Likewise, the relationship between the member states and the general government, and the distribution of powers among them is highly variable. Some looser confederations are similar to international organisations. Other confederations with stricter rules may resemble federal systems.

[One Degree]

[quote="JohnRawls"][/quote]

“Sovereign independence “ being maintained is the key phrase. You can not pretend they are sovereign if their internal ideology must match a confederation ideology that has nothing to do with mutual cooperation. The simple demand they must adhere to UN human rights would mean they are not a confederation. It is interference in their ‘sovereign independence’. The EU is the most imperialist organization on earth because it promotes global liberalism which is totally incompatible with any definition of confederation.

[JohnRawls]

“Sovereign independence “ being maintained is the key phrase. You can not pretend they are sovereign if their internal ideology must match a confederation ideology that has nothing to do with mutual cooperation. The simple demand they must adhere to UN human rights would mean they are not a confederation. It is interference in their ‘sovereign independence’. The EU is the most imperialist organization on earth because it promotes global liberalism which is totally incompatible with any definition of confederation.

I am so sorry but your feelings can't change how confederation is defined or described or how they exist or existed in history. You can continue stretching the definition with your feelings but nobody will really take you seriously.

[Albert]

John what are you blabbering about again, stop writing nonsense. You have no clue what you are talking about.

[JohnRawls]

John what are you blabbering about again, stop writing nonsense. You have no clue what you are talking about.

Do enlighten me Albert.

[Atlantis]

It is nice to see Americans growel about the EU or our relationship with Russia. If Trump is going to do bullshit to "allies" then do not mind us doing good stuff to our american "Ally" also. This might involve us lifting sanctions on Russia, evicting military bases, putting tariffs on your goods etc .

We were unwilling to play the empire game for a long, long time. So it is not our empire that is collapsing.
And when we want to play the empire game then we definately have the means to do it ourselves if needed.

The Anglos are sick in the head, John. They can't help it. Over 3 centuries of Anglo Imperialism have spoiled them for good. It's no use explaining. They are beyond salvation.

They don't even represent 4% of the world population, yet they tell us that we couldn't survive without their protection racket. What a cruel joke! Once the world is liberated from their exploitative system of financial capitalism, we'll prosper with mutually beneficial trade networks with a social and ecological dimension. The Perfidious Albion will of course try to spread terror and discord by deception and proxy jihadists, but their narrative has grown so weak that they will just discredit themselves.

Every false flag operation will be another nail in the coffin of Anglo Imperialism.

[Beren]

Macron calls on Russia to work with Europe to end 'difficult period'

By Katie Polglase and Laura Smith-Spark, CNN

Updated 1559 GMT (2359 HKT) May 25, 2018

(CNN) - French President Emmanuel Macron on Friday called on Russia to work "hand-in-hand" with Europe to end what he described as "one of the most difficult periods of our history."

In an address to the St. Petersburg International Economic Forum in Russia, Macron made reference to the values of cooperation, multilateralism and sovereignty, while subtly criticizing policies of isolationism and protectionism.

He described Russia as "an inalienable part of Europe" and called for dialogue and trust, saying: "Let us get around the table to talk about things. If we miss this moment then we really lose it forever."

His speech followed an address from Vladimir Putin in which the Russian President warned the world was currently experiencing "a systemic crisis" in global trade rules, in part because of a "new era of protectionism."

The rules that have been built up over decades are being "broken -- and sometimes very blatantly," Putin told an audience that included Macron and Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe.

"Today we observe not even erosion -- but subversion -- of these foundations," Putin said.

"There are more and more classic forms of restriction and we are now talking about a completely new era of protectionism -- and this is all defended by references to national interests and so on.

These kind of random sanctions are extremely damaging and more and more attempts are made to circumvent the rules. Worldwide lack of confidence has an effect on growth."

Putin did not name Donald Trump, but his words could be read as an attack on the US President's threat to impose stiff global tariffs on steel and aluminium exports from Europe and elsewhere.

Putin also said Trump was playing to his base by pulling out of the Iran nuclear deal -- but warned the consequences could be bad.

"He is making good on his electoral promises, so he is a victor domestically. But if this deal is destroyed, many will lose," Putin said.

Trump withdrew from the Iranian nuclear accord on May 9. He had long excoriated the deal, claiming it didn't go far enough in deterring Iran's ambitions in the Middle East, or doing anything to curb its ballistic missile program.

The United States has said it expects its European allies to follow its lead. However, leaders in Europe and elsewhere have said they intend to stick to the deal, while Russia and Turkey criticized the US decision.

In his address, Macron spoke of the need to work in "the spirit of cooperation" through existing international platforms, such as the United Nations Security Council and G20.

"Let us make our platforms useful: removing trade tensions and removing barriers. In several months we are going to meet at the G20 summit so let us make this platform useful for the sake of a multilateral approach," he said.

Macron acknowledged that "the confidence of the international community is somewhat shaky at the moment" and that his goals of cooperation and multilateralism "are far from easy." But, he said, "let us be full of valor and courage to work together, cooperate."

This year's forum in St. Petersburg has the biggest international lineup since before 2014, when Russia was hit with US and European economic sanctions over its annexation of the Black Sea peninsula of Crimea and support of a separatist conflict in eastern Ukraine.

Putin in St. Petersburg.jpg (132.22 KiB) Viewed 2077 times

That picture makes me wonder if the man has a European vision for his country.

[Kaiserschmarrn]

Putin looks as if he just can't be bothered anymore. He might call it quits after this presidency out of sheer boredom.

[Decky]

I don't really see how he can. If someone else takes power he might have Putin assassinated. He needs to hold onto power till the grave.

[Atlantis]

If he does resign from the presidency, or decide to not run for another turn, he'll become a kingpin who directs future Russian leaders from behind the scenes. He has seen the greed of the oligarchs and knows that they can't be trusted.

[Beren]

If he does resign from the presidency, or decide to not run for another turn, he'll become a kingpin who directs future Russian leaders from behind the scenes. He has seen the greed of the oligarchs and knows that they can't be trusted.

If reconciliation or even strategic partnership with Europe takes place and they don't feel threatened in their existence anymore, then he can let Medvedev replace him as president and he can be prime minister, party leader, or anything he wishes to be.

[Atlantis]

If reconciliation or even strategic partnership with Europe takes place and they don't feel threatened in their existence anymore, then he can let Medvedev replace him as president and he can be prime minister, party leader, or anything he wishes to be.

You mean Russians need the strongman Putin as along as they feel threatened by the West?

Maybe you are right, even though domestic issues may be more important for the choice of the president. Anyways, rapprochement with Europe/the West would allow Russia to liberalize. I know that term has fallen into disrepute with the pampered kids of liberal society, but there can be no doubt that authoritarian rule doesn't advance a country in the long term.