[danholo]

Muslims have always been a part of British society.

Today, they make up 4.4% of the total population (United Kingdom Census 2011).

Don't you think you are busy making a fuss about nothing?

That's a huge percentage and considering that Muslims, I think, care about their religion and heritage more than Brits, so I think some fears are warranted. Then again, I feel that Britain is an easy place to assimilate despite your background.

However, Islam and Muslims will change Europe, it's inevitable. I can see the minarets being built already. Yay, diversity!

[Godstud]

Right wingers, like you, fear change. That doesn't mean it's a bad thing.

[danholo]

Right wingers, like you, fear change. That doesn't mean it's a bad thing.

I'm not right-wing.

I don't fear change.

I just disagree that 4,4% is not big.

Anything more to add except false accusations and ad homs?

[Godstud]

4.4% is a small percentage.
Vancouver has a 6.54% French population, and you'd hardly ever meet a French person. In no situation is a 4-5% demographic considered LARGE.

Right wingers fearing change is a fact, not an insult. It's clear that you consider yourself right-wing if you take exception to it. Too bad. If the shoes fits...

[danholo]

I have nothing against change, I welcome it. Even if we have a different idea of what change we want, doesn't make me right-wing. That's silly. I'm from Finland, and appreciate the system we have.

Don't resort to ad homs, thanks. It's unnecessary.

[Godstud]

Those aren't Ad hominems. They're facts.

The 4.4% isn't a lot unless you are fearing something.

[blackjack21]

Anti-semitism is dangerous and terrifying. The anti-Jewish statements in the clip you posted should worry everyone. Both anti-Muslim and anti-Jewish sentiment is a dead end. And I think mass immigration is going to increase both, unfortunately. There needs to be greater security to ensure Jews living in Europe are safe both from Neo-Nazis and the extreme Islamists. I truly sympathise with Jews who have to hear these chants, it must be terrifying.

So why stay in Europe if you're Jewish? Clearly, the governments are totally cool with anti-Jewish assemblies, provided they are not shouting anti-Jewish statements in the local language. Shouting, "Let's kill all the Jews" is totally cool in the UK, provided you do not do it in English. By contrast, if you think it is funny to make your girlfriend's dog do a Nazi salute to bemuse your girlfriend, you could be subject to jail/gaol. That's where things are in Europe today (assuming you consider the UK part of Europe).

Muslims are good but mass immigration is terrible. And the people who support it irrespective of their backgrounds are naive.

Maybe they aren't naive. Maybe they're evil.

The thread is not about immigration, it is about Tommy Robinson and his crusade of hatred towards Muslims, and what I am doing is opposing the supporters of Robinson with something called The Truth.

Tommy Robinson is highlighting the fact that there are Muslim rape gangs and law enforcement knew this and did nothing, ostensibly because they didn't want to be called "racist." That is The Truth®.

TR, whatever else he may be, is raising the important question of whether Islamic culture is compatible with British culture.

And the extreme dangers associated with multicultural ideology. For example, it neo-Nazis are nowhere near the danger in Europe that Islamists are. Can you imagine the government encouraging the importation of neo-Nazis, because they eschew welfare and have a strong work ethic, but ignoring their rape gangs and anti-Semitic marches and putting UK protesters in jail for highlighting that fact? All you have to do is replace neo-Nazi with Islamist, and that is exactly what is happening in the UK.

All I was attempting to do was counter the lies and propaganda as presented by people like Tommy Robinson, the now defunct EDL, and other such bigots; I stated only facts … that Asians including many Muslims have contributed to this country in many ways, and like our Caribbean citizens or those from Europe, they are now part and parcel of British life and British culture.

And so is anti-Semitism, Muslim rape gangs, and jailing people of the British race for disliking the former.

Muslims have always been a part of British society.

Going back to the Crusades, right?

I assume that the reason this question is raised is because (A) a tiny minority of people who call themselves Muslim, are in actual fact extremists and terrorists, and (B) there is a perception that the recent spate of Asian child molesting gangs are a true and fair representation of Muslim people.

Well, the state and Muslims are largely responsible for this impression. In order for that perception to take hold, Muslims generally must fail to outwardly condemn that behavior and the state has to fail to prosecute it, which is more or less what happened for a very long time.

The immigration problems in Europe have not been caused by the immigrants themselves, but by the governments that opened the borders to allow such a huge influx that they cannot hope to cope with that many, and it makes assimilation/integration far more difficult. Blaming the immigrants is very convenient, but they're not the ones who caused the problem. They are merely the ones that took advantage of lax, or non-existent immigration policies.

You will be the among the first to be howling if they start cracking down on illegal immigration and curtailing legal immigration.

Shame on you T May! Traitor to her own people!

The government of the UK made him a martyr. They obviously didn't learn their lesson with Ghandi.

It always amuses me to look at how non White countries like Myanmar, Thailand and the Central African Republic deal with their Muslim populations.

Careful. Your likely to disturb Godstud's quiescent emotional state.

However, Islam and Muslims will change Europe, it's inevitable. I can see the minarets being built already. Yay, diversity!

Take out big ben and replace the receptacles with loud speakers for the Muezzin.

Vancouver has a 6.54% French population, and you'd hardly ever meet a French person. In no situation is a 4-5% demographic considered LARGE.

London is majority foreign born.

The 4.4% isn't a lot unless you are fearing something.

Would 4.4% neo-Nazis be okay?

[noir]

The corrupt British justice system, all of them of Pakistani descent

The British people want their country back: 'No More Rapes'

[Godstud]

You will be the among the first to be howling if they start cracking down on illegal immigration and curtailing legal immigration.

As usual, you are very wrong. I'm totally against illegal immigration, and have never supported it in any way.

Also, the solution to the immigration problems is not to stop immigration from only a few select countries, but to stop all immigration, until you can deal with the problems, or at least limit the numbers.

That does not mean, you can't help people, of course. That just means they can't immigrate to your country until time as they've changed some immigration policies that are causing problems.

America's immigration problem is not from the legal immigrants and refugees, but from the illegal ones.

London is majority foreign born.

That is irrelevant.

Would 4.4% neo-Nazis be okay?

Muslims are not Nazis, nor even Nazi-like. Your comparison is uneducated and ignorant.

Incidentally, this number is 4.4% wrong, at least for London demographics. The demographics of London indicate that the Muslim percentage is 12%. Even at 12%, compared to the Christian 48%, I would not count it as large.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_London

Muslims are 5% of the population of all England, and that's still not a large number, compared to the 59% Christian demographic of England.

[danholo]

Those aren't Ad hominems. They're facts.

The 4.4% isn't a lot unless you are fearing something.

Fuck I'm triggered.

I find your argument to be very silly and a very premature conclusion about a person without knowing much about them with your very, very limited world view of politics on a left-right spectrum and that your level of fear determines your political stance. So tell me, if you fear that fascists are taking over in the 1930's Germany, you're right wing? Hey, why are you fearing change?

It'd be nice to talk on PoFo but this really is a childish sandbox sometime. I mean, what are you trying to achieve with your argument except provoke me? Nothing. There is nothing constructive about your behavior, only destructive. Do you feel good about yourself for knowing what defines a right winger so you can dismiss people as the other? Racists do that too, their criteria is just biology...

Anyway...

4.4% is a huge percentage if these people would be as people fear. But their fears are unwarranted. I honestly think demographically speaking 4.4 % is an enormous minority that can have power if they allied themselves under one cause. But this is not the case.

Do you want to talk a out fear, change or how demographics, even small ones, mold a society? Not every change is inherently good. Or do you mind if I come hit on your wife and she gets bored of you because I'm ultimately the better guy?

[ingliz]

Going back to the Crusades, right?

No, before that.



In 773-774 AD (157 AH) King Offa of Mercia minted a coin that imitated a dinar. It bears the shahadah (Islamic declaration of faith).

[noir]

[Rich]

Muslims are not Nazis, nor even Nazi-like.

Indeed Nazis are an interesting and exotic historical phenomena.

[KS edit: Rule 3]

[witchfinder]

According to latest statistics around 3% of the UK population are completely Vegetarian, and a further 5% partly Vegetarian, could one say that growing numbers of Vegetarians threaten the traditional culture of England and Scotland, where Haggis, Roast Beef and Yorkshire Pudding is part of our culture.

Some scientific studies and polls suggest that the Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgendered population of the United Kingdom is around 7%, and as it has become much easier to be open about sexuality, and as rights in law have become equalised, does this threaten our culture.


Census studies and other surveys show that Atheism is the second largest ( and fastest growing ) group in society when it comes to religious views, in the 2011 Census returns 26% of the entire population belong to no religion. Perhaps this could be a threat to British culture, bearing in mind that we have "established Churches" as part of the state.


The point I make here is that nothing ever stands still, its called "progression" and culture also never remains the same, because culture and society is constantly evolving and changing, and what was British culture 50 years ago is now different to British culture today.


The problems which Muslims face as a minority are perhaps slightly more complex because of the world political agenda, but basically we had the same issues when Jews were singled out, and when our Caribbean citizens began arriving in large numbers, and when East African Asians came here with their British passports after been expelled from Uganda.


There have always been the insular and backward looking people who see anyone who is different in some way as a threat, and Tommy Robinson is one of the key people amongst those backwards looking people.

[One Degree]

You assume because something has happened in the past means it should be continued in the future. There is no rational reason to believe this. We don’t know what the world would be today if we had limited ourselves to trade instead of immigration also. We might all be happier if we had maintained more homogeneous societies. There is no way to know, but it is also no reason to continue what was done in the past.

[Rich]

The problems which Muslims face as a minority are perhaps slightly more complex because of the world political agenda, but basically we had the same issues when Jews were singled out,

This is the most disgusting racism. To try and equate anti Jewish racist bigotry with a fair minded and sober assessment of the Muslim problem. Discrimination was not merely applied to Judaists, something that I would have no problem with, a Judaist is by definition a racial supremacist and bigot. Discrimination was based purely on the person race or alt least imagined race, on who their parents were.

Accepting Jews fleeing from Nazi dominated Europe in the 1930s was the decent thing to do. They were a small minority in Europe incapable of defending themselves. This is completely different from accepting the flood of immigration from Muslim countries and sub Saharan Africa. Muslims turned the Middle East, South West Asia and North Africa into shit holes when these the leading areas of civilisation before the Muslim took over. We don't want Muslims but neither do we want a flood of Infidels from Muslim dominated countries. No we need to set up Infidel safe havens in Muslim occupied territories to accommodate them. Also Africa needs to sort its out of control population, rather expecting to impoverish the rest of the world.

[Albert]

According to latest statistics around 3% of the UK population are completely Vegetarian, and a further 5% partly Vegetarian, could one say that growing numbers of Vegetarians threaten the traditional culture of England and Scotland, where Haggis, Roast Beef and Yorkshire Pudding is part of our culture.

Some scientific studies and polls suggest that the Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgendered population of the United Kingdom is around 7%, and as it has become much easier to be open about sexuality, and as rights in law have become equalised, does this threaten our culture.


Census studies and other surveys show that Atheism is the second largest ( and fastest growing ) group in society when it comes to religious views, in the 2011 Census returns 26% of the entire population belong to no religion. Perhaps this could be a threat to British culture, bearing in mind that we have "established Churches" as part of the state.


The point I make here is that nothing ever stands still, its called "progression" and culture also never remains the same, because culture and society is constantly evolving and changing, and what was British culture 50 years ago is now different to British culture today.


The problems which Muslims face as a minority are perhaps slightly more complex because of the world political agenda, but basically we had the same issues when Jews were singled out, and when our Caribbean citizens began arriving in large numbers, and when East African Asians came here with their British passports after been expelled from Uganda.


There have always been the insular and backward looking people who see anyone who is different in some way as a threat, and Tommy Robinson is one of the key people amongst those backwards looking people.

Brainwashing is real people, it begins from our education system.

[noir]

The problems which Muslims face as a minority are perhaps slightly more complex because of the world political agenda, but basically we had the same issues when Jews were singled out,

A typical apologetic propaganda. They are brought up to hate and sabotage the host Western countries, what it has to do with issues like "when Jews were singled out"?

[Godstud]

@noir So what? If I was Palestinian, I'd be burning those flags, too. US causes no end of problems to them, so being surprised at the resentment, is fucking absurd.

[noir]

They are Pakistanis. Nothing to do with medieval Muslim remnants on British isles soil, which @witchfinder and @ingliz apologetics brought above.