The Russian army is potentially stronger than all the armies of Europe - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14975470
Despite the Russian-US agreement on the limitation and reduction of strategic offensive arms, Washington has repeatedly violated the existing balance of forces in its favor.
Judging by the actions that the States are currently undertaking (from leaving the INF Treaty, to deploying a global missile defense system in Europe), it can be said with confidence that in the near future, the US will not only not abandon attempts to eliminate the Strategic Nuclear Forces of Russia and will continue build their nuclear capacity to solve the problem.
In response to the deployment of the US missile defense system in Europe, Russia has prepared a series of countermeasures. First of all, military units are equipped with the latest rocket weapons and equipment. This is a new mine-based missile system "Sarmat" with a heavy liquid rocket. The rearmament of this missile system is scheduled to begin in 2021, it will replace the existing Voyevod complex. In addition, currently there is a serial production of samples of the new Avangard missile system with hypersonic military equipment. This complex has unique combat characteristics: its installation will significantly increase the ability to overcome the missile defense system and defeat point attacks. The first samples of this weapon will be put on alert in the next year.
As of today, the high-precision hypersonic Dagger missile system is on test-combat duty. From December 1, 2018, the Peresvet combat laser systems were put into service.
All these means will provide guaranteed overcoming of the most modern anti-missile systems.
#14975476
Also this:

Moscow has reportedly begun testing an underwater nuclear weapon that has been touted as invincible by Russian President Vladimir Putin.


The Poseidon, previously known as the Status-6 Oceanic Multipurpose System and dubbed Kanyon by the U.S.-led NATO Western military alliance, is a state-of-the-art nuclear-capable drone being developed by the Russian armed forces. Citing a defense industry source, the state-run Tass Russian News Agency reported Tuesday that the Russian navy had begun trails for the weapon at sea.


"In the sea area protected from a potential enemy’s reconnaissance means, the underwater trials of the nuclear propulsion unit of the Poseidon drone are underway," the source said, according to the official outlet.




A number of reports have claimed that the weapon may be capable of producing massive, radioactive tsunamis that would pose a threat to major cities. Some experts have corroborated this theory, although they have questioned the tactical effectiveness of this strategy.
- It's a strategic weapon silly!

https://www.newsweek.com/russia-test-nu ... rt-1271224


My my, what a coastline heavy population you have there. Radioactive Tsunami time.
#14982627
Tintin Storm wrote:The Russian Armed Forces have achieved a high level of combat readiness in recent years,


Sure !

More importantly they also have acquired the ability to read our minds, using fortune tellers, and follow a strict diet consisting of carrots and gummybears that give each of them the same strength as Popeye.

This "we dont amass our military at russian borders, look there a threeheaded ape" approach of propaganda from our beloved mainstream press is so boring. They tried to hammer into our brains that Russia is super evil since years now. Why dont they recognize their strategy has failed ?

Military spending 2018:

Russia - 66.3 billion $
UK - 47.2 billion $
France - 57.8 billion $
Germany - 44.3 billion $

Also, for comparison:
USA - 610.0 billion $
China - 228.0 billion $
Saudi Arabia - 69.4 billion $
User avatar
By Tintin Storm
#14984000
The past 2018 can be called the year of Russian weapons without any doubts. Russia is the first county in the world that created hypersonic complexes and combat laser systems. New developments were presented by President Vladimir Putin personally this spring.
The creation of new types of weapons and their rapid deliveries to the troops are dictated, first of all, by external threats and with constantly escalating conditions from the USA, which believe in their exclusivity. The policy of intervention, conducted and conducted by the United States in different parts of the world is an incentive for states that do not want to become the object of such intervention to develop new types of weapons and military equipment.
Three of the new products promulgated by the president have already entered the army. These are hypersonic complexes "Dagger" and "Avangard", as well as the laser complex "Peresvet". In the nearest future is expected the entry into the armies of a heavy intercontinental ballistic missile "Sarmat".
US forced to recognize the absolute superiority of the Russian missile complex that called "Avangard". The US military department stated that the West does not have any analogue to "Avangard". It is noted that the new Russian weapons can easily overcome all of existing protection options and can hit any target. As it was stated by the Pentagon spokesman: "The harsh reality is that the current US missile defense system and American operational thinking are just unable to withstand the hypersonic threat".
As for the new heavy intercontinental ballistic missile that called "Saramat", it`s main difference is in the unique flight line. Novelty can get to the target through the North and the South Pole. In the presentation presented by Vladimir Putin it was stated that the "Sarmat" has no limitation on the flight range. So the new missile will be able to circumvent any position of the missile defense.
Talking about the high-precision aviation missile system "Dagger" Vladimir Putin said that this hypersonic missile is guaranteed to be able to overcome all of existing air defense and missile defense systems. It was particularly noted the maneuverability of the missile during the flight and its ability to change the flight line as soon as it possible, which, of course, makes it very difficult to intercept.
Nowadays 10 of "MiG-31" fighter-interceptors with hypersonic "Dagger" missiles have already taken up to test combat duty to overcome missile defense and are ready for use depending on the situation.
As US military analysts noted the new Russian missile system can be considered the main "aircraft carrier killer" in the Pacific region, since "Dagger" is able to destroy with one blow even the largest enemy ship from a distance of up to two thousand kilometers. The entry to airborne alert of hypersonic "Dagger" missiles caused panic among Western military circles: no one existing antimissile system is not able to withstand new Russian weapons.
Thus, the Pentagon was forced to admit that the new models of Russian weapons "represent a major technological breakthrough that can dramatically strengthen Russia's military capabilities and strengthen its position in the international arena."
Moreover, other samples of new military equipment and weapons have shown themselves well in combat work in Syria. Russian armament is distinguished by its ease of operation, reliability, and higher combat capabilities compared to foreign analogues.
In combat conditions in Syria more than 300 modern Russian weapons have successfully established themselves, there are the fifth generation fighter "Su-57", the new modification of the Pantsir-S2 anti-aircraft missile-gun complex, the Terminator-2 tank support vehicle, the combat robot "Uranium-9" and others among them.
Thus, in 2018, the whole world could make sure that Russia had powerful modern super-weapons and admit that there are no such weapons in the world. At the same time, Vladimir Putin noted that the growing military potential of Russia is the guarantor of peace and the preservation of the balance of forces on the planet and that Russia is not going to use its power for the purpose of aggression against anyone. Russia demonstrates weapons in order to prevent the recurrence of conflicts of the XXth century and show its citizens that they are protected.
#14988071
Common sense ? :lol:

Common sense would be to ask what the heck the source of this article is - since the threadstarter doesnt give any. Has he made up this text himself ?

Common sense would be to first fact check an article before drawing conclusions. This article doesnt pass even superficial fact checking. Its garbage.

Common sense is that a country like Russia who has lowered their militay spending in recent years is probably not planning on being aggressive.

Common sense is that its deeply worrying that China is recently starting to raise military spending by a lot. They are already over 200 billion per year, about a third of what the USA is spending, and far ahead of all other countries.

Common sense is that it makes no sense that the USA has almost as much military spending than the rest of the world combined, unless the USA wants to dominate the rest of the world.

Common sense is to not attack neither the USA nor Russia since both have thousands of nuclear bombs and have the means to deliver those bombs worldwide, thus they both have the ability to wipe out mankind.
#14989045
Russia’s new strategic weapon has rendered any missile defenses useless at a small fraction of their cost, officials said Thursday.
The Avangard hypersonic glide vehicle flies 27 times faster than the speed of sound, making it impossible to intercept, Deputy Prime Minister Yuri Borisov told Russian state television.
The new weapon “essentially makes missile defenses useless,” he said.
Borisov spoke a day after Russian President Vladimir Putin oversaw what he described as the conclusive successful test of the Avangard and hailed it as a reliable guarantee of Russia's security for decades to come.
In Wednesday’s test, the weapon was launched from the Dombarovskiy missile base in the southern Ural Mountains. The Kremlin said it successfully hit a practice target on the Kura shooting range on Kamchatka, 3,700 miles away.
The Defense Ministry released footage from the test launch, in which a ballistic missile could be seen blasting from a silo in a cloud of smoke, but it hasn't released any images of the vehicle itself.
Putin said the Avangard will enter service with the Russian Strategic Missile Forces next year.
The test comes amid bitter tensions in Russia-U.S. relations, which have been strained over the Ukrainian crisis, the war in Syria and the allegations of Moscow’s meddling in the 2016 U.S. presidential election.
Sergei Ivanov, a former Russian defense minister, said in televised comments that the Avangard constantly changes its course and altitude as it flies through the atmosphere.
He emphasized that unlike previous nuclear warheads fitted to intercontinental ballistic missiles that follow a predictable trajectory allowing it to calculate the spot where they can be intercepted, the Avangard chaotically zigzags on its path to its target, making it impossible to predict the weapon’s location.
A smiling Ivanov likened the weapon's flight through the atmosphere to a pebble skipping off the surface of water.
Ivanov, who now serves as Putin's adviser, said the Avangard could be fitted to the Soviet-made UR-100UTTKh intercontinental ballistic missile, which is code-named SS-19 Stiletto by NATO.
He noted that Russia has a stockpile of several dozen such missiles, which are in a factory-mint condition and not filled with fuel, allowing them to serve for a long time to come. Ivanov added that they could be put in existing silos, sharply reducing the costs of Avangard's deployment.
"The Avangard has cost hundreds of times less than what the U.S. has spent on its missile defense," Ivanov said.
He noted that Russia began to develop the Avangard after the U.S. started to develop defenses against ballistic missiles.
Moscow feared that the U.S. missile shield could erode its nuclear deterrent, and Putin announced in 2004 that Russia was working on a new hypersonic weapon.
Ivanov recalled that when Russian officials warned their U.S. counterparts about the new weapon program at the time, American officials were openly skeptical about Russia's ability to carry out its plan.
“We aren’t involved in saber-rattling, we simply ensured our security for decades to come,” he said.
#14989139
Clearly, it's bullshit. You can't change altitude and direction constantly at Mach 27. The missile would rip apart from the G forces alone. Maybe they can approach from a very high altitude and accelerate at the final stage of flight, but you cannot realistically change direction constantly at Mach 27. I wonder who they are targeting with this propaganda. Clearly, it has to be people who don't understand physics.
#14989144
I would greatly disagree.
Although Russia has a strong army, it's readiness is questionable due to lack of loyalty.
Russians, the people, unlike what many outsiders think or believe, are not content with their government, and much of the army is made up of the lower working class people; Meaning its loyalty is questionable at best.
Putin is holding Russia together not through the army but through the FSB; Any major war that Russia goes into will see a large part of the army desert and, if large enough, much of the eastern and southern regions revolt as they are more inclined to see themselves as colonized by Russians rather than Russians.
#14989202
The number one thing that determines how strong a state's military is how high its population is. Generally, states that have larger populations tend to have stronger militaries. China has the strongest military in the world for two reasons: It has the largest population in the world, and it has the best industrial sector in the world. The United States is strong too, but there are two problems with the United States: Its industry will be outrun by China due to not having enough factories to produce all of the warfare it needs for a total war, hence the Americans rely on Chinese industry a lot for various reasons. And for two, many Americans are fat and are out of shape.

There is nothing wrong with Russia having the strongest military in Europe. It is only its right wing, capitalist thoughts that are behind it. The capitalists that hide behind the Russian military is what is the real threat.
#14989419
anasawad wrote: much of the eastern and southern regions revolt as they are more inclined to see themselves as colonized by Russians rather than Russians.


Which peoples? Ethnic Russians will not see themselves as Russians? Russians are the majority in most of the east and south.

The fact is that Europeans have become too effete to fight a war with Russia. It's pointless. If there is such a war then Russia will win. You can actually imagine current day Europeans picking up guns and fighting wars? :lol:
#14989421
Russian army is far from being the strongest in the world

Their equipment is mostly outdated with only 30% of the army modernized
AA capabilites are questionable the S400 was never tested in combat and the S300 was alredy bypassed in Syria
also S400 cant shoot targets from close distance it have to rely on older systems to defend it
also Russia currently dont have a working aircraft carrier their last one admiral Kutuzov is under maintenance :lol:
#14989422
@Political Interest
Ethnic Russians are almost exclusively in western Russia. i.e The land traditionally called Russia.
The eastern provinces are not ethnic Russian but rather nations conquered by the Russian empire.

There are tons of Turkic, Central Asian, Caucasian (people from the Caucasus), Mongolic, Uralic, Siberian, Kamchatkan, and even Chinese groups all over the east beyond the traditional slavic lands that were conquered by the Russian empire.
Also the reason why, after the soviet union ended, the Russian federation was formed giving autonomy to many republics and provinces in the eastern lands since many wanted to revolt and regain independence; Something which was only reversed recently by Putin and his FSB regime in order to expand his control over the federation.

Also also, why many analysts expect Russia to fall apart and be partitioned once Putin is gone; The reforms ,that were meant to keep the "empire" together by giving the many nations within it autonomy and partial self governance, were reversed by Putin and made it worse for those nations, in effect reviving these movements and desires for independence.

And again, also why China is given much larger weight than Russia in experts fields, Russia will the battleground of future conflicts in this round of the called war once the Putin regime ends, not a participant of the inevitable war.
And Putin is already 66, so he wont be around for a lot longer.

EDIT:
Russians are not the majority in the east and south of Russia, not even close actually.
Russians are concentrated in the western provinces of Russia, while ethnic minorities are filling up the rest.
Seeing white people in those areas doesn't mean they're Russians.
The Kurds are in large parts white. Lebanon is majority white. Both are middle eastern and not European or of European descent.
National and cultural groups are not the same as racial or ethnic group.
Have you seen the Chechens before ? They're almost exclusively white with colored eyes and light hair; they're still Chechens since thats a national identity not an ethnic or racial one.
And Russia isn't between Europe and Africa. Its Eurasia, where everyone, including slavs, have Eurasian features.

For a war between Europe and Russia.
1- UK, France, Germany. Those can repel any Russian invasion. They cant invade Russia, but neither can Russia invade them.
2- nuclear weapons.
3- Russia will fall apart as most will revolt if Putin, a dictator mind you irregardless of the tons of propaganda around hem, decides to send them to their deaths for the interests of himself and the oligarchs. There is a reason why many Russians choose to migrate outside of Russia, and since the ones who can afford to migrate are middle class people, the reasons are not exclusively economic.


@Zionist Nationalist
Weapons don't matter as much in a cold war.
And a hot war between nuclear powers wont be using much conventional weapons to begin with.
Even if the S400 doesn't work, or Russia doesn't have functional aircraft carriers, smaller nations wont go to war with it simply due to the massive power imbalance between the two parties.
Under the circumstances of a cold war, internal stability and unrest are the main factors at play; even economic warfare plays to this as its meant to harm the people in order to increase unrest and falter stability thus breaking the state internally.

The Russian people will keep the heartland and will be around for a long time, but Russia as the political entity we know it today have a limited time left.
China is the much big player in the next east-west cold war starting.
#14989684
anasawad wrote:Ethnic Russians are almost exclusively in western Russia. i.e The land traditionally called Russia.
The eastern provinces are not ethnic Russian but rather nations conquered by the Russian empire.


Yes.

anasawad wrote:There are tons of Turkic, Central Asian, Caucasian (people from the Caucasus), Mongolic, Uralic, Siberian, Kamchatkan, and even Chinese groups all over the east beyond the traditional slavic lands that were conquered by the Russian empire.


Of course. But Russians are a majority in many of these non-traditionally Slavic republics aren't they?

And most of the Uralic nationalities are loyal to Russia.

anasawad wrote:Also the reason why, after the soviet union ended, the Russian federation was formed giving autonomy to many republics and provinces in the eastern lands since many wanted to revolt and regain independence; Something which was only reversed recently by Putin and his FSB regime in order to expand his control over the federation.


Most of them still have autonomy.

What, the Russian Federation was formed to avert nationalism? Do you have any sources for this claim?

anasawad wrote:And again, also why China is given much larger weight than Russia in experts fields, Russia will the battleground of future conflicts in this round of the called war once the Putin regime ends, not a participant of the inevitable war.


There will be no repeat of 1991. They are not stupid. Russians are very intelligent people. They will not make that same mistake again.

anasawad wrote:Seeing white people in those areas doesn't mean they're Russians.
The Kurds are in large parts white. Lebanon is majority white. Both are middle eastern and not European or of European descent.
National and cultural groups are not the same as racial or ethnic group.


There are many Eurasian nationalities in Russia such as Chuvash, Tatars or Udmurts and other Turkic and Uralic peoples. Still they have a lot of European blood.

anasawad wrote:Have you seen the Chechens before ? They're almost exclusively white with colored eyes and light hair; they're still Chechens since thats a national identity not an ethnic or racial one.


I thought Chechens were Asians? Having light eyes and light hair does not make you European.

anasawad wrote:And Russia isn't between Europe and Africa. Its Eurasia, where everyone, including slavs, have Eurasian features.


Except in the greater perspective the Russians are closer to Europeans than they are to classic Asian nations like China, India or Japan. Maybe they are close to Eurasian peoples like Tatars, Udmurts and Chuvash but I know enough about Russia and it is nothing like a classic Asian nation. They are even different to Uzbeks and Kazakhs.

anasawad wrote:For a war between Europe and Russia.
1- UK, France, Germany. Those can repel any Russian invasion. They cant invade Russia, but neither can Russia invade them.
2- nuclear weapons.
3- Russia will fall apart as most will revolt if Putin, a dictator mind you irregardless of the tons of propaganda around hem, decides to send them to their deaths for the interests of himself and the oligarchs. There is a reason why many Russians choose to migrate outside of Russia, and since the ones who can afford to migrate are middle class people, the reasons are not exclusively economic.


Any war in Europe is not in Europe's interest, it would be manipulated by outside forces. Germans and Russians are natural friends as well.

I agree with you that Russia cannot invade Europe and that Europe cannot invade Russia. All this makes such a war completely pointless.

Russians are normal Europeans. They like to drink tea and beer and their food is European. Their books and mentality are European. The DNA of Russians is close to other Slavic peoples. They are our natural friends.

anasawad wrote:The Russian people will keep the heartland and will be around for a long time, but Russia as the political entity we know it today have a limited time left.
China is the much big player in the next east-west cold war starting.


And yet the English are doing their best to try and get a free trade deal with the Chinese. The Chinese will not have a bad relationship with Europe and they cannot gain strategic influence here either. There will not be Chinese military bases in European countries. The only cold war with China will be in Asia and that is a problem for Americans not Europeans.

It is the same with Iran. Only Americans are worried about Iran, Europeans are not.
#14989689
@Political Interest
Of course. But Russians are a majority in many of these non-traditionally Slavic republics aren't they?


Nope. They are not.

And most of the Uralic nationalities are loyal to Russia.

Not as much as some wish they were.
More oppression and crack down only means more of going back to the roots.

Most of them still have autonomy.

Again. Nope.
They were supposed to elect their governments and all, but Putin reversed that and chose to appoint governors himself.

What, the Russian Federation was formed to avert nationalism? Do you have any sources for this claim?

No need for sources, the law and type of system is literally in the name of the country. Well, I guess that can be a source it self, that is the name of the country. :p

The whole idea of organizing Russia into a federation of many republics is to insure the many nationalities in it stay within the federation.
Thats why they were supposed to have autonomy, so their national identities don't spill over and begin seeking independence like many other soviet republics did.

There will be no repeat of 1991. They are not stupid. Russians are very intelligent people. They will not make that same mistake again.

Irrelevant.
The decisions are made by Putin's regime not by the Russian people.

And technically speaking, it'll be actually better for the Russian people to lose the eastern republics.
They can finally stop barring the cost of maintaining them, and the eastern republics can support themselves with their resources.

There are many Eurasian nationalities in Russia such as Chuvash, Tatars or Udmurts and other Turkic and Uralic peoples. Still they have a lot of European blood.

Persians have European blood mixed into them, that doesn't mean anything.
Its not racial or ethnic but national.
The Chechens have European blood, that didn't stop them from fighting 2 wars for independence and still pursuing it.

I thought Chechens were Asians? Having light eyes and light hair does not make you European.

They Eurasian. Mixed.
And your previous arguement was that those national groups are Europeans, my answer was that being white or light colored doesn't make you European nor does it cancel out your national and cultural identity.
Hinted in the part right above this one you responded to.

Except in the greater perspective the Russians are closer to Europeans than they are to classic Asian nations like China, India or Japan. Maybe they are close to Eurasian peoples like Tatars, Udmurts and Chuvash but I know enough about Russia and it is nothing like a classic Asian nation. They are even different to Uzbeks and Kazakhs.

Not really, the western parts have traditional European cultural aspects, though not fully European.
And Asia is vast and has tons of nations in it, there is no exact form of what makes a traditional Asian nation.
As such, in comparison you need to compare Russia to a specific part of Asia.
For example, if you compared Russia and Iran, you'll see a considerable amount of similarities, more than Russia has with western European nations.
Sure they might seem very different when comparing the ruling regimes now, but in regards to social structures, cultural and social aspects, they're much more similar than what meets the eye.
Further more, they're both land empires and have similar internal political structures.

Infact, in regards to internal political and social structures, Russia has far more in common with Asian land empires than with European empires and federations.


Russians are normal Europeans. They like to drink tea and beer and their food is European. Their books and mentality are European. The DNA of Russians is close to other Slavic peoples. They are our natural friends.

They're not.
And DNA is irrelevant.
Heck, even among Europeans themselves, the only thing in common between many European nations is that all were taken over by liberal ideology. Otherwise, even European nations in the center and western parts of the continent would differ culturally from each other.
Talk to a spaniard, a frank, a german, and an italian, and you'll see the underlying difference in ease.

And yet the English are doing their best to try and get a free trade deal with the Chinese. The Chinese will not have a bad relationship with Europe and they cannot gain strategic influence here either. There will not be Chinese military bases in European countries. The only cold war with China will be in Asia and that is a problem for Americans not Europeans.

European nations are for the most part vassal states at the moment, their decisions are, for the time being, irrelevant as the US will drag them by force to what ever venture it pursues.

Europeans also have nothing to gain from the wars in Iraq or Afghanistan, yet they still were forced to participate in it.

A cold war doesn't necessarily mean that China will have military bases in Europe. It already is gaining political influence in Europe and inside the EU.
China is already expanding into Africa where Europeans get their resources from.
China is also expanding into key regions where major trading routes, which Europeans need, and establishing its influence in.
And China is already expanding in Russia in the east, where the raw materials Europeans also consume much of is.

The talk of a cold war isn't a prediction for the future bro, its firing shot was the belt and road initiative, and it's not going to stop anytime soon.




EDIT:
On a side note;
I don't understand why you are insisting on classifying things as "European" as if its something that is of any significance.
Russia is a Euroasian country and eastern slavs (ethnic Russians along with some Caucasian ethnic groups) are also in most ways Eurasians due to centuries of mixing under the empire.
And even if they weren't Eurasian at all but of fully European blood; Whats that has to do with anything ?
You do realize that Europe has a long history of wars within it between various European national groups ?
Europe isn't one entity, it has many national and cultural groups within it, which is why the EU is having problems btw, and they each have their own cultures, traditions, and aspirations.
And even when you consider it on a civilization scale, Europe is still not just one civilization. The formation of the eastern, western, southern and central nations of Europe is vastly different from each other and have very different roots and backgrounds.

The main reason why many European nations seem similar right now is because they're all based on a liberal capitalist systems, and for many of them being imposed on them. But that system of values is also in place in many parts of Asia and the Americas. So its not unique to Europe.
#14990341
anasawad wrote:Nope. They are not.


So it's mostly Mari, Udmurts and others in the 'white' parts of the country?

anasawad wrote:Again. Nope.
They were supposed to elect their governments and all, but Putin reversed that and chose to appoint governors himself.


In the Soviet times I doubt they were elected.

anasawad wrote:No need for sources, the law and type of system is literally in the name of the country. Well, I guess that can be a source it self, that is the name of the country. :p


Fair enough.

anasawad wrote:The whole idea of organizing Russia into a federation of many republics is to insure the many nationalities in it stay within the federation.
Thats why they were supposed to have autonomy, so their national identities don't spill over and begin seeking independence like many other soviet republics did.


But a lot of them already tried in the 1990s, including in Tatarstan.

anasawad wrote:Irrelevant.
The decisions are made by Putin's regime not by the Russian people.


Gorbachev's mistake was possible because he was an idealist and there were enough people around him to trust attempts to improve relations with the West. No one is going to try that again. Moscow will wait for the West to improve relations but they are not going to sacrifice their perceived interests to improve the relationship. Those guys know exactly what they are doing.

anasawad wrote:Persians have European blood mixed into them, that doesn't mean anything.
Its not racial or ethnic but national.
The Chechens have European blood, that didn't stop them from fighting 2 wars for independence and still pursuing it.


It seems to me that Chechens and Iranians are Asians. Yes indeed having European blood does not make you European.

anasawad wrote:They Eurasian. Mixed.
And your previous arguement was that those national groups are Europeans, my answer was that being white or light colored doesn't make you European nor does it cancel out your national and cultural identity.


No I never said that Uralic peoples are Europeans, they are Eurasians, but really they are Asians.

It seems Russians are also heavily Uralic, but for me Russia is a classic European country.

anasawad wrote:Not really, the western parts have traditional European cultural aspects, though not fully European.
And Asia is vast and has tons of nations in it, there is no exact form of what makes a traditional Asian nation.
As such, in comparison you need to compare Russia to a specific part of Asia.
For example, if you compared Russia and Iran, you'll see a considerable amount of similarities, more than Russia has with western European nations.
Sure they might seem very different when comparing the ruling regimes now, but in regards to social structures, cultural and social aspects, they're much more similar than what meets the eye.


Please give some examples of the way Iran and Russia are more similar than Russia is to Western Europe. And that is only Western Europe. Places like Germany are going to be more similar to Russia than are England or France.

anasawad wrote:Further more, they're both land empires and have similar internal political structures.


Land empires yes but how do they have similar political structures?

anasawad wrote:Infact, in regards to internal political and social structures, Russia has far more in common with Asian land empires than with European empires and federations.


Well of course, they were ruled by Mongols.

anasawad wrote:And DNA is irrelevant.
Heck, even among Europeans themselves, the only thing in common between many European nations is that all were taken over by liberal ideology. Otherwise, even European nations in the center and western parts of the continent would differ culturally from each other.
Talk to a spaniard, a frank, a german, and an italian, and you'll see the underlying difference in ease.


Europe is not uniform and Asia is also not uniform. Obviously the countries on the borderlands of these two continents are going to be influened by both.

By the way, what do you think of Belarusians and Lithuanians? Are they also Eurasians? Belarus has very strong European currents. Lithuanians are classic Europeans too. But then they are right next door to Russia. They also lack Uralic influence.

anasawad wrote:European nations are for the most part vassal states at the moment, their decisions are, for the time being, irrelevant as the US will drag them by force to what ever venture it pursues.


Do you think European countries could become close to Iran if they were free to pursue their own policies?

anasawad wrote:A cold war doesn't necessarily mean that China will have military bases in Europe. It already is gaining political influence in Europe and inside the EU.
China is already expanding into Africa where Europeans get their resources from.
China is also expanding into key regions where major trading routes, which Europeans need, and establishing its influence in.
And China is already expanding in Russia in the east, where the raw materials Europeans also consume much of is.


And this is why the West is incredibly naive about China. They live in fear of Russia when it is China that has the greatest potential to threaten them.

anasawad wrote:The talk of a cold war isn't a prediction for the future bro, its firing shot was the belt and road initiative, and it's not going to stop anytime soon.


There's no doubt it will happen.

anasawad wrote:EDIT:
On a side note;
I don't understand why you are insisting on classifying things as "European" as if its something that is of any significance.
Russia is a Euroasian country and eastern slavs (ethnic Russians along with some Caucasian ethnic groups) are also in most ways Eurasians due to centuries of mixing under the empire.
And even if they weren't Eurasian at all but of fully European blood; Whats that has to do with anything ?
You do realize that Europe has a long history of wars within it between various European national groups ?
Europe isn't one entity, it has many national and cultural groups within it, which is why the EU is having problems btw, and they each have their own cultures, traditions, and aspirations.
And even when you consider it on a civilization scale, Europe is still not just one civilization. The formation of the eastern, western, southern and central nations of Europe is vastly different from each other and have very different roots and backgrounds.


Because I am pan-European and believe Russia is an integral part of this continent.

anasawad wrote:The main reason why many European nations seem similar right now is because they're all based on a liberal capitalist systems, and for many of them being imposed on them. But that system of values is also in place in many parts of Asia and the Americas. So its not unique to Europe.


Agreed. I still think there is a common European civilisation which can include Russia. It does not need to be based on liberal values.

Europe is getting too liberal and people are adopting mercantile values. I don't like this hyper individualistic mentality. I think liberal societies will not produce very good people.

I've noticed that the best people in England for example tend not to be liberal and they're also very interested in Asia.
#14990354
@Political Interest
So it's mostly Mari, Udmurts and others in the 'white' parts of the country?

I have direct family in Russia currently, twin step sisters in saint Petersburg and their mother's family in Tomsk, (noting they're Russians not foreigners or migrants) and when the occasion comes we usually take a little trip to Tomsk for a visit, and occasionally venture further east exploring the region and the surrounding regions; At certain areas that far east you'll be having some trouble understanding what people say because many don't even speak Russian nor understand it; So thats how much Russian influence is spread.
Russia is an empire, not a nation state.

In the Soviet times I doubt they were elected.

They weren't, which is why at its moment of weakness large chunks started falling out until it collapsed completely.

But a lot of them already tried in the 1990s, including in Tatarstan.

True, which is why they were given extensive autonomy and freedoms. Heck, republics can even have their own official languages in Russia and they had their own presidents and constitutions; until the late 2000s and early 2010s where Putin began grabbing power everywhere in a much accelerated fashion that is.

Before Putin's power grab in the recent years, republics were the most autonomous, oblasts were right after as they elected their governors and governments. Territories and districts with lesser autonomy but still with semi-autonomous rule. And finally, federal cities which are ran by the federal government.
Under Putin and his FSB regime, all this is either already reversed or in the process of being reversed, especially after 2010.
Meaning what kept them together is now being reversed.

Gorbachev's mistake was possible because he was an idealist and there were enough people around him to trust attempts to improve relations with the West. No one is going to try that again. Moscow will wait for the West to improve relations but they are not going to sacrifice their perceived interests to improve the relationship. Those guys know exactly what they are doing.

Sure, but the same reasons Gorbachev tried to improve relations with the west already exists now, unrest and instability that is accompanied by economic stagnation (mainly due to corruption); The only difference is that now its giving in to China instead of the west.

It seems Russians are also heavily Uralic, but for me Russia is a classic European country.

Russians not Russia.

Please give some examples of the way Iran and Russia are more similar than Russia is to Western Europe. And that is only Western Europe. Places like Germany are going to be more similar to Russia than are England or France.

Russia was heavily influence by a variety of Asian nations through various means.
Russian society and culture is very similar to that of Iran in terms of traditions, mentality, attitudes, etc.
For specific examples, not sure how to do that in regard to culture; I mean, if you go to Iran to the eastern provinces where the federal government's reach is weak and easily passable, you can easily see how dealing with Iranians is very similar to dealing with Russians, only different looks. Which is also why people from both groups easily mix with each other all over the place.
In the same time, much of the circumstances that shaped Russian outlook towards the world also shaped that of Iranians much in the same way.

Land empires yes but how do they have similar political structures?

Russian and Iranian political systems, once removing the ideological themes, are almost identical to each other in not only structure but also in how they operate internally and the political culture of both countries.

By the way, what do you think of Belarusians and Lithuanians? Are they also Eurasians? Belarus has very strong European currents. Lithuanians are classic Europeans too. But then they are right next door to Russia. They also lack Uralic influence.

No, they're obviously not.
Belarus is a traditionalist orthodox country, with minimal to near non existent Asian influence.

Do you think European countries could become close to Iran if they were free to pursue their own policies?

If the Iranian clerical regime went away or atleast the reformists fully took over, potentially this year or next year when Khamenei is gone; yes, we can expect a much faster push towards relations with Europe but not with the US.
Iranians, unlike the common believe in much of the world especially the west, are much more fearful of the rise of China rather than that of US war or influence, as the US is much weaker in the middle east and central Asia than American propaganda would like everyone to believe.
In the middle east and central Asia, Iran is a first mover while the US is a third or second mover at best at the moment.
While China is either a first or second mover in most instances.

And this is why the West is incredibly naive about China. They live in fear of Russia when it is China that has the greatest potential to threaten them.

Russia is gradually falling under the Chinese sphere so worrying about Russia is not the wisest at the moment.
China is indeed the bigger threat, and I believe many are awakening to that fact right now.

Because I am pan-European and believe Russia is an integral part of this continent.

Not all of Russia thats for sure. The western part, sure, but the east and south are far from being European.

Agreed. I still think there is a common European civilisation which can include Russia. It does not need to be based on liberal values.

Europe is getting too liberal and people are adopting mercantile values. I don't like this hyper individualistic mentality. I think liberal societies will not produce very good people.

I've noticed that the best people in England for example tend not to be liberal and they're also very interested in Asia.

I'm more on the line of 2 European civilizations.
The eastern European regions are very different from the far western ones and formed entirely in an entirely different fashion and under different conditions. Not to mention geography plays a major role in how cultures form and the east differs greatly from the rest of Europe.
User avatar
By Tintin Storm
#14992190
Time goes by, everything changes and nothing stands still. Many spheres of activity in Russia, including the military sphere, are constantly developing in this way. The government lays down considerable financial resources for the development of weapons, its maintenance and development. It is known that at the moment the Russian government is pouring additional funds to finance new types of weapons.

On February 2, 2019, Russian President Vladimir Putin, at a meeting with Foreign and Defense Ministers Sergey Lavrov and Sergey Shoigu, said that Russia suspends participation in the Treaty on the elimination of intermediate-range missiles (INF) in response to the unilateral withdrawal of the United States from the agreement. This US action worsens the situation in the sphere of international security and strategic stability. V. Putin instructed to stop attempts to initiate negotiations on this issue, as well as to begin the development of a ground-based version of the sea-based missile launchers "Kalibr" and hypersonic ground-based medium-range missiles.

So, in mid-February, the Russian TV channel "Zvezda", owned by the Russian defense Ministry, published a video of testing of the latest Russian T-90MS tank, which is intended for export. The footage included demonstrating the sea trials of the tank, shooting in motion and the work of the crew. T-90MS will be presented at the exhibition IDEX-2019 in Abu Dhabi. The upgraded machine can effectively fight both in classical operations against high-tech enemy equipment, and in local conflicts.

The tank is equipped with a modular dynamic protection of the third generation, providing it with highly effective protection against modern means of destruction. Its ergonomics has also been significantly improved. Taking into account the increased indicators of protection and firepower, the mass of the T-90MS did not exceed 50 tons – thanks to this, the tank surpasses competitors in mobility. In addition, in the export tank, the accuracy and survivability of the 125-mm gun installed on the combat vehicle were improved. At the same time, the ammunition includes a wide range of various ammunition, including a guided missile and a high-explosive shell with remote detonation.

The composition of the aerospace forces will include four modernized strategic missile TU-95MS. The aircraft is equipped with a new control system and holders for missiles X-101, which have been successfully used in Syria.

At the end of 2019, the Russian Navy should include the lead nuclear submarine of the project "Knyaz Vladimir" - this boat of the improved project 955A ("Borey-A"). According to open sources, it has upgraded the hull design, uses new electronics, and has a lower noise level compared to the previous submarines of this series. The main armaments are Intercontinental ballistic missiles "Bulava".

More than 450 units of armored vehicles will go to the units of the Land forces. The defense Ministry will receive upgraded T-72B3M tanks and new T-90M, as well as infantry fighting vehicles BMP-3 and armored personnel carriers BTR-82A/AM.

It was reported that the defense Ministry signed a contract with Uralvagonzavod Company for the supply of 132 T-14 tanks and BMP T-15 on the Armata platform. All deliveries are expected to be completed by 2021. Another novelty of the Ural gunsmiths is a universal armored engineering vehicle (UBIM) — also this year must pass state tests.

More than 1,850 units of motor vehicles will be added to the land units. Among them there are armored vehicles of increased protection "Typhoon-K" and "Typhoon-U", modern machines of radiation chemical and biological exploration of PCM-6 and PCM-8. Intelligence units will equip armored vehicles "Tigr-M" with a remote-controlled combat module "Arbalet-DM", portable radar "Aistenok" and "Fara-BP".

The ground forces will be fully rearmed with Iskander. The brigade set of operational and tactical missile complex will receive the connection of the Western military district. It is capable of hitting targets at ranges up to 500 km, it consists of two types of missiles: ballistic and cruise. To date, this weapon is able to overcome any missile defense.

Units of the military air defense also expect a serious replenishment. It is planned to supply anti-aircraft missile systems S-300V4, Buk-M3 and Tor-M2, which has established itself, including in Syria, as one of the effective means of combating precision weapons and unmanned aerial vehicles. It was reported that a contract will be signed until 2027 for new complexes of the Tor type, including modernized and in the Arctic performance. The first 12 serial antiaircraft missile systems "Tor-M2DT" military Department received in November 2018. Also, the air defense units of the three military districts will continue to receive modern portable anti-aircraft missile system "Verba".

Also, the army will receive for the first time an anti-aircraft missile system of medium range S-350 "Vityaz". It is designed in the interests of military defense with the maximum radius of the purposes of 60 km and a maximum altitude of 30 km. It was designed to fight both aerodynamic and ballistic targets. One launcher is armed with 12 anti-aircraft missiles.
#14993229
Vladimir Putin unveiled that Russia had developed a new type of weapon that flies faster than the speed of sound and looks like a “fireball” in March 2018. Less than a week before the start of 2019, information about its successful test launch was released.
Dirk Zimper from the German Aerospace Centre told the country’s public broadcaster Deutschlandfunk (German Radio) that there are no effective defence systems against the hypersonic glide vehicle Avangard, which was successfully tested in December. According to the specialist, although the work on developing reliable countermeasures is underway, it is “really difficult” to intercept a hypersonic missile.
Zimper points to the acknowledgment of this fact in the US, referring to a statement by General John Hyten, the head of the Strategic Command of the United States. The general told the Senate Armed Forces Committee in March that the US had no defence that could prevent the use of such weapons against it.
According to the German scholar, there are three countries researching this technology now: apart from Russia, these are China and the US. However, he expressed the opinion that the successful test launch of the Avangard had not shifted the international balance of power.
“It is clear that nations like the US, Russia, and China have been researching such systems for decades, and it is indeed a competition. It would be very difficult to say here who might have advanced further on this research and might be behind. I think it is a neck to neck situation”, Zimper told the broadcaster.
The glider vehicle, able to carry a megaton-class nuclear warhead, was unveiled by Vladimir Putin in March 2018, when he spoke about the newest additions to Russian arms inventory, including the SARMAT missile system, super-fast drone torpedoes, nuclear-powered cruise missiles, the air missile system “Kinzhal”, as well as laser weapons.
On 26 December, it was announced that the Avangard missile, dubbed a "New Year's present to the nation" by Russian President Vladimir Putin, had been test-launched from a base in the southern Ural Mountains and successfully hit a practice target in Kamchatka some 6,000 kilometres (3,700 miles) away.
The missile, which is said to fly 27 times faster than the speed of sound, can change course and altitude while flying through the atmosphere, zigzagging its path to its target, making it virtually impossible to predict the weapon's location.
According to Sergei Ivanov, a former Russian defence minister, Russia began to develop the Avangard after 2002 when the US withdrew from the 1972 Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty and began work on defences against ballistic missiles.

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