[Rugoz]

Switzerland is currently in negotiations for a deal with EU as well (albeit a different one). The EU actually managed to make enemies of the Swiss unions and social democrats. So far it has always been the national conservatives. I never thought I'd see the day.

Nobody said that we want a no deal. Nobody said we won't get hurt. But we can't compromise core values of the EU and some very important issue.

I don't know why you keep repeating this nonsense. The EU compromises on its core values all the time when it serves its interests.

[Beren]

the only spanking was against the erg. They now look humiliated and stupid.

To me they seem stronger than expected while May commands less than 1/3 of the Commons.

[JohnRawls]

Switzerland is currently in negotiations for a deal with EU as well (albeit a different one). The EU actually managed to make enemies of the Swiss unions and social democrats. So far it has always been the national conservatives. I never thought I'd see the day.



I don't know why you keep repeating this nonsense. The EU compromises on its core values all the time when it serves its interests.

It does to a degree with smaller nations. But UK is too big to do it with them. It is hypocrytical but that is how it is. Our politicians stated this also. Compromising on core values with nations like switserland,norway etc is not the same as compromising on core values with UK, US, Russia, China... etc This can't be allowed.

So partially what you said is true. But regarding the UK we can't do that. Their economy is too big and as competitive as the EU economy. If it wasn't big or competitive then perhaps something could be done.

[Rugoz]

It does to a degree with smaller nations. But UK is too big to do it with them. It is hypocrytical but that is how it is. Our politicians stated this also. Compromising on core values with nations like switserland,norway etc is not the same as compromising on core values with UK, US, Russia, China... etc This can't be allowed.

So partially what you said is true. But regarding the UK we can't do that. Their economy is too big and as competitive as the EU economy. If it wasn't big or competitive then perhaps something could be done.

The term "core values" is stupid to begin with. What constitutes "core values" is constantly being expanded by the ECJ. The 4 freedoms exist since the treaty of Rome, they're being interpreted more broadly today. The EU has free movement of capital, goods or labor to various degrees with all countries on the planet. The EU limits those freedoms at will with third countries, like free movement of labor with Ukraine or Turkey. Would the EU want free movement with a country 50 times its size and half the wage level? No, obviously not.

But I'm repeating myself. I guess it's easier to scream "it's out of principle" instead of getting into the nitty-gritty details.

[ingliz]

The EU compromises on its core values all the time when it serves its interests.

Then, obviously, a compromise with the UK does not suit its interests.

nonsense

Why do you think the EU should act against itself? If the UK refuses to sign the WA, it is the UK who must suffer the consequences of their own stupidity.

[JohnRawls]

The term "core values" is stupid to begin with. What constitutes "core values" is constantly being expanded by the ECJ. The 4 freedoms exist since the treaty of Rome, they're being interpreted more broadly today. The EU has free movement of capital, goods or labor to various degrees with all countries on the planet. The EU limits those freedoms at will with third countries, like free movement of labor with Ukraine or Turkey. Would the EU want free movement with a country 50 times its size and half the wage level? No, obviously not.

But I'm repeating myself. I guess it's easier to scream "it's out of principle" instead of getting into the nitty-gritty details.

As i said, its a hypocritical approach but it works. In a sense UK wants to do the same but with other countries outside Europe. Issue is European agreements make that impossible. Basically UKs argument is that they can renegotiate EU deals better than the EU.

The only ones that get fair game on everything are members of the EU but outsiders do not get fair game and it is up to us if we consider those changes proper. That is the whole point of the EU. In case of the UK since UKs economy is as competitive as the EU, we can't allow those exception because it will damage the EU.

[Nonsense]

Is May trying to get parliament to cancel Brexit, for her. Has May owned the Brexiteers?

Nah! Something doesn't add up here. So what does May really want? I can't believe she want's a no deal exit, that's not her style. I can't believe she thinks her deal's a flyer either. Is she or rather has she been playing for remain all along? She's so blatantly running out the clock, but everyone's fixated on this she's a robot narrative. I keep hearing Turkeys won't vote for Christmas. I'm not so sure. Is she trying to put parliament in a position where they vote to cancel article 50. Maybe she'd even like to engineer a situation where the DUP vote to cancel Brexit.

Nonsense -
Well, she doesn't 'own' the 'Brexiteers' & certainly NOT, the 'LEAVERS'.

Your senses are correctly telling you what she is about.

What she wants is reflected in 'Chequers', hereafter AKA, the 'DEAL'.

That implies she is attempting to placate both sides & seeking to keep sitting on the 'throne' as a 'one-nation' 'leader'.

Of course, she is neither of the above, she is just a bad actor acting in a EU-UK farcial play that Brian RIX, the 1950's actor would chuckle at.

She is trying to straddle being half- OUT, with being half-IN the E.U, that is NOT what people voted for in the referendum, 'LEAVE' is what they said & MAY being a 'Remainer' knows that parliament is nearly full of 'remainers', as is the Tory Party, BUT, the people do NOT want to 'Remain', they want OUT, to 'LEAVE'.

She is not only tone-deaf, she is a deceitful liar, that is what is reflected in 'Chequers' & her 'Deal' in trying to straddle the divisions in the country.

She is where she is because of her lies, deceitfulness & gross incompetence.

When she had agreed with the E.U on the 'Draft' deal, that is when she should have told them that it is subject to the will of parliament, therefore, she would need to seek their approval BEFORE signing the 'Deal' & NOT trying to change it afterwards.

A 'Draft' Bill on the 'deal' should the have been debated & voted on in parliament, before returning to europe & signing that deal.

There is a saying, " An Englishman's word is his bond", once the 'deal' was signed it was a done 'deal'-fineto, NOT, 'oh, let's have another bite of the cherry'.

We 'LEAVE' 29 MARCH 2019, no matter what & any attempt at aborting will be permamently lethal for the Tory Party.

[Rich]

The EU has no core values, nether does Britain or any nation state or the UN. Both the EU and Britain are snowflakes. Both want their cake and eat it. Both want to have or at least accept Britain leaving the EU but maintain the Irish border as if Britain hadn't left the EU. Britain and Ireland have never come completely independent of each other. Prior to us entering the EU, Britain and Ireland had a customs union and a common travel area.

Britain and Eire entered the EU together, Eire entered on the understanding / assumption that Britain would remain in the EU indefinitely. The whole foundation of the Good Friday agreement was that Britain and Eire were members of the EU and would stay as members of the EU.

Ireland is fucked by Brexit. Absolutely fucked! Please people get this thorough your thick heads. Ireland needs both its close relationship with the EU and its close relationship with Britain. The fact that Eire is not in Schengen is a tacit recognition that Ireland is not fully independent of Britain. It works the other way, northern Ireland is not fully Independent of Eire. No one, not Europe, not Eire not the DUP, not the Brexiteers not the Remainers want to admit these facts, hence the current farce.

The rules of the referendum campaign were fascistic and undemocratic. For a whole year before the referendum, leavers were given 50% of airtime on radio and television, even though they were only a minority of the Conservative PLP and a tiny minority of the labour parliamentary party. Endless air time was given to irrelevant nobodies, to dozy bitches like Kate Hoey.

I demand a referendum on Flat Earth. I don't believe in Flat Earth myself, although I know quite a few people that do. Of course they couldn't win could they? But after a year in which Flat Earthers are given equal air time to Ball Earthers, after a year where Flat Earthers get to drench the airways with their views, after a year in which every TV and Radio presenter has to give equal deference to the views of Flat Earthers as they do to Ball Earthers, you'll be amazed at how well they do. First off a lot of people will get behind Flat earth just to say fuck you to the establishment. The rules will be set to limit the money advantage of the Ball Earthers. Of course there will be foreign governments and other powerful rich foreign / intentional entities who see this as a great opportunity to mess with the British establishment. Of course they will find ways to feed money to the Flat Earth campaign.

At some point the doubt will occur, just maybe the impossible might happen, the Flat Earthers might win. The establishment will start to panic. They will start project fear to scare people into voting Round Earth. The establishment will start to use its power to press the scales. The Ball Earthers will cry foul. People will start to ask searching questions, if Ball Earth is true why do the establishment have to resort to these absurd scare tactics. Many Ball Earthers will start to become enraged with the establishment's tactics. More and more anger will rise against the establishments patronising and bullying tactics. They gave us a referendum, but now they're trying to take it away. Even though we believe in Ball Earth we can't let the establishment get away with this. This is no longer about Flat Earth any-more, its about reigning in an arrogant out of touch establishment.

Result
Round Earth: 48.1
Flat Earth 51.9

"I voted Round Earth but we must respect the result of the Flat Earth Referendum ........"

[B0ycey]

The future trade relationship hasn't even been finalised yet to compromise for personal interest. It is all about the backstop and the EU will always look after the interest of a member state (Ireland) over a member who is leaving. Ireland want it so it will stay. As they say, it is a red line.

[Nonsense]

If the clamour for a second referendum was decided on by the government,it would pay the full price in political terms,they ONLY have one option, to deliver 'LEAVE'.
Otherwise, MAY will be accused of never having any intention of delivering the referendum result as promised.

Currently, her position is that only a very narrow chance of achieving a miniscule ,irrelevent adjustment is possible with the E.U, they do not need, or want to change anything, it is signed, sealed & soon to be delivered through it's enactment in the E.U.

It's then a case of take it, or leave it for the U.K, for which,if the case, will be considered a breach of faith\intent, with a heavy cost ramifications, both in europe & worldwide.

This is the trouble with having women as 'leaders', they are often illogical, emotional,at times hysterical, change their minds & unsuitable for the role.

Ireland, initially rejected joining the E.U over the Lisbon Treaty in 2008, , in 2009 they actually joined in another referendum on the ammended Lisbon Treaty.


The above is funny really, because Gordon BROWN promised a referendum to the U.K on it, then refused to hold one, instead, he brought in the E.U Treaty(Ammendment)Act.

That Act enabled Labour to bypass democracy(with plenty of outcry over it)after the tycoon, Stuart WHEELER brought a case in the High Court, to force a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty, we all know what happened to BROWN & New Labour after that.

[layman]

@JohnRawls i will be more specific. The E.U. is bluffing by suggesting it will “force” a no deal if one is not agreed by March. It will not allow the damage of a no deal unless the alternative is worse.

Rather they will likely agree to an extension and probably try to fleece some concessions in the process.

I never said the E.U. will give much more ground as such. They will allow the uk to move red lines though. “Norway for now”, this deal or no brexit are far more likely than no deal because they are far preferred option by both the E.U. and the uk Parliament, and the uk public.

When it comes down to it I don’t think people are going to allow catastrophe due to some deadline and process. These are broken all the time.

[Rugoz]

Then, obviously, a compromise with the UK does not suit its interests.

It's political interests, no, it might not.

[Beren]

Switzerland and UK strike bilateral trade agreement

The bright future has begun!

Also, no deal is the only option that can happen spontaneously, which can be a significant advantage relative to other options.

[Nonsense]

Perhaps Mr Juncker ought to 'apologise' to Theresa MAY, whom he 'allegedly' called, 'nebullous'.

I think that what he really meant was, " She is as thick as two short planks".

I'm not quite sure which was the most 'diplomatic' comment, but inside her head is like a real 'pea-souper'.

Maybe the Tory Party ought to apologise to Mr Juncker, for electing as their 'leader', an unmatched incompetent clown to perform in the Westminster Circus.

[Beren]

Bishops pray for politicians' integrity amid Brexit turmoil

It's like a religious scene from a disaster movie.

[B0ycey]

May needs to get her head out of the blender and look at the shit that is being created.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46582705

How can anyone undermine negotiations that have been concluded?

Nonetheless I do find it irony that we 'must adhere to Brexit' due to democracy yet refuse democracy to conclude that Brexit is indeed what people want. The mood has changed May. The 52% is now like 35%. But if you are so damn sure Brexit is what people want then do another referendum and get the same result. At least you have a mandate to be know that people are seeking hard Brexit if that happens - as there can be no confusion that people didn't vote for Brexit based on the lies they were given as today the UK is the star of the clusterfuck show and as such everyone would know what they are voting for.

[Londonbiker]

Switzerland and UK strike bilateral trade agreement

The bright future has begun!

Also, no deal is the only option that can happen spontaneously, which can be a significant advantage relative to other options.

It's refreshing to see more positive & less negative coverage, reports & articles. Unwilling to stir up the hornets nest however British politics is broken.

[ingliz]

It's refreshing to see ...

UK Exports ONS Pink Book 2017 (Revised)

CH: £21 billion worth of goods and services.

EU: £236 billion worth of goods and services.


Source: ONS

[Londonbiker]

UK Exports ONS Pink Book 2017 (Revised)

CH: £21 billion worth of goods and services.

EU: £236 billion worth of goods and services.


Source: ONS

Is that solely China, not taking consideration into the ROW minus EU?

[ingliz]

China

No.

CH -> Confoederatio Helvetica -> Switzerland