EU-BREXIT - Page 29 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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By One Degree
#14931347
Maybe ask some of the Eastern Europeans how impossible it is to be separated from a larger entity? The impossible somehow gets done quickly when you just do it. Some things will be in limbo, but so what? They will get worked out. No pain. No gain.
By B0ycey
#14931350
layman wrote:@B0ycey read my post I said members, not supporters.


Have you got a source for that? I doubt that is true either.

If you wanted that then a 2 year delay in enacting article 50 would be needed at least to prepare.


Delaying article 50 means nothing in terms of preparation. Negotiations can't start till it was activated. The choices have always been Hard Brexit or No Brexit. Only now is this sinking in within Westminster.
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By blackjack21
#14931385
Albert wrote:May has made a mess of the whole thing. It is unclear what she is doing and at times she does things as if she is actually trying to keep Britain in EU. Plus she threw Tommy in prison like a tyrant.

She was a remainer, but next in line when Cameron went down in flames. That's the real reason she's PM. It's not because she has the backing of the majority of the UK population. With Boris Johnson out now too, her threat to fire people who defected has backfired. While she didn't have the support of the far right, letting her government railroad Tommy Robinson just made people cheer for her demise.

Nonsense wrote:I predicted what BREXIT will produce, a betrayal of the referendum by Theresa MAY & her Party.

Well done.

Nonsense wrote:Those two words alone mean that the EU will NOT,CANNOT negotiate a 'deal' that in any way relaxes the fundamental principles on which the EU has become established on, ie , the, 'Four Freedoms'.

These "four freedoms" are for capitalists, not for the people of Europe. They have had enough of open borders. Merkel has destroyed the social consensus for the European Union.

Nonsense wrote:Consequently, if there is no political coup by the 22 club, then ALL, not just T. MAY will be toast, the TORY Party will be too.

I agree. The Tories cannot afford to lose a huge chunk of their constituents and survive in their present form.

Nonsense wrote:The TORY MP's who also agitate to 'remain' are political goners at the next GE.

Yep. They are going to regret not listening to the electorate.

JohnRawls wrote:2) Hard Brexit aka economy crashes and you start being the sickman of Europe again. You will loose a big chunk after Brexit but the main prospect is lower growth than rest of Europe.

That's not necessarily the outcome. There will be significant adjustments. However, May hasn't really put forward for a trade deal with the United States, which would be essential for the UK in a hard Brexit situation--suggesting that the UK establishment hasn't given up on leaving, while the population now expects it.

You have to keep in mind that Germany is a big part of the reason for the EU's problems. First, they show no mercy for the PIIGS in terms of debt restructuring and austerity; then, they show tremendous mercy for economic migrants--providing them with housing, food, clothing, etc. while ignoring the econmic plights of their own citizenry; then, ignore the criminal complaints of their own citizenry as European women are getting raped by migrants. If you take that and look at the fact that 50% of Germany's economy is exports, they are in the same position that China is in with respect to a trade war with the US. Trade wars hurt both sides, just like real shooting wars. However, one side typically prevails. Germany is not in a great position to prevail if the UK erects trade barriers to German imports in retaliation. So UK capitalists have to choose sides, and they haven't gotten around to that yet.

One Degree wrote:I said from the beginning Brexit would never happen. No one should be surprised by May’s ‘turd’. This is all about global capitalists undermining populism. There is no ‘economic concern’ for the people. It’s all bullshit.
Do you want to be controlled by an Capitalist Oligarchy or not? It’s quite simple. The complications are intentional to confuse you.

This why I've said that the path forward is to topple the establishment, not to strike some sort of deal with it. Global capitalists are dependent upon nation states, but not loyal to them. They are now finding out that the extremes of their free movement of labor project is blowing up everything they've worked toward for 30 years. They haven't squelched populism. Italy's recent elections should dispel that idea. Honestly, I was thinking Merkel would be the first to go, but I have no problem seeing May go down first. Putting a female face on this shit sandwich doesn't make it any more appealing.

B0ycey wrote:And Labour have some strong Brexit constituencies to consider before becoming the 'voice of remain'.

Very true. This is why America's Democrats are going to lose in November with their present fixation on eliminating our Immigration and Customs Enforcement service (ICE), which is not only a political non-starter but more or less a guarantee they will lose in November.

layman wrote:The idea you can just walk away without dire consequences is pig ignorance and/or pig headed ideology.

It has to be a bumpy ride. Germany is the overlord of the United Kingdom. If the UK wants independence from Germany they will have to pay the price, just as we did following the Declaration of Independence in 1776. We didn't arrive at a constitution and a stable situation until 1789. At that point, Europe was getting torched by the French Revolution and the Reign of Terror that followed. Germany is going to pay a terrible price too. Political instability is going to be the outcome of free movement of dissimilar population groups. That's going to be part of the complexion of Europe for the foreseeable future regardless of what happens with Brexit.

B0ycey wrote:The choices have always been Hard Brexit or No Brexit. Only now is this sinking in within Westminster.

Yes. However, simultaneously Merkel is still trying to force other EU members to accept migrants in spite of the fact that she has essentially put the entire EU project into peril. Hard Brexit is preferable to no Brexit. Remaining means dealing with the huge social upheaval that Merkel is trying to force on Europe.
User avatar
By Heisenberg
#14931425
Jeremy Hunt is foreign secretary! :lol:

They aren't even trying any more.
By Decky
#14931446
Fucking treasonous business worshiping Tories. :roll: We won't be free of the EU until Corbyn is in. May will sell us down the river to the Europeans and collect her cheque from Europe when she retires.
User avatar
By blackjack21
#14931452
Decky wrote:Fucking treasonous business worshiping Tories.

Part of the backlash is that it isn't business worshipping, as it doesn't leave the UK with freedom to negotiate trade deals with the United States, China or other countries unless they are harmonized with EU regulations. In other words, it's not Brexit in spirit. In fact, Britain would leave the EU, but agree by treaty to adopt regulations in harmony with the EU. Once again, Brussels would set the terms and London would take marching orders. May is a fraud. She needs to be bounced.

Decky wrote:May will sell us down the river to the Europeans and collect her cheque from Europe when she retires.

Yep. She's bad news. She should be tried as a witch and burned at the stake. :D
By Decky
#14931453
Businesses doesn't want the government to have that freedom, they want us to stay slaves to the EU so they can have easy profits. Patriotism exists only on the left, the right just worship their wallets.
User avatar
By blackjack21
#14931599
Decky wrote:Businesses doesn't want the government to have that freedom, they want us to stay slaves to the EU so they can have easy profits. Patriotism exists only on the left, the right just worship their wallets.

You really figure Nigel Farage for a leftist?

Beren wrote:Trump will merge with Brexit when he arrives in the UK the same day the white paper is due to be published (Thursday). It's gonna be like a total solar eclipse.

I'm sure Trump will be relishing May's imminent demise. She's had not very nice things to say about Trump, and I'm sure he'll have not nice things to say about her once she's gone.

Here's a pretty withering piece from the National Review stateside: It’s Time for Theresa May to Go
When her autobiography is written, it should be published as a loose sheaf of unbound pages — no spine.

Ouch!

Teresa May really needs to step down.
By B0ycey
#14931601
Beren wrote:
No doubt that a busy week has just started. Trump will merge with Brexit when he arrives in the UK the same day the white paper is due to be published (Thursday). It's gonna be like a total solar eclipse.


Don't forget the biggest event of all Beren. The Semi Final of the World Cup and the sore heads of upset England fans when they get knocked out on penalties. Trump will arrive to the UK with fans dancing on Double Decker Buses and falling though Bus Shelter roofs. These Isles have gone mad since Novichok have graced our presence. Or is it Brexititis? :lol:
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By Nonsense
#14931734
Say what we like, with David Davies, Boris Johnson gone, along with 'what's-his-name' , I can't recall, the following is TRUE.

Theresa May's Cabinet, is full of, 'YES' men.

The 'Brexiter' Minister's should never have fell into the trap set for them at that meeting last week, they should have stayed away. & not attended.

In regards to extricating the U.K(nothing 'united' there)from the E.U, March 2019 is when it will be done & dusted.

The 'transitional' talks called 'BREXIT', are a 'Trojan Horse', to keep unfettered migration from Europe as beloved by the political jerks, AKA, the Liberal 'elite' here & in Europe.

The people of this country will see through the TORY\LAB deceit, as the saying goes, " Oh what a tangled web they weave, they who set out to deceive".

No one who voted 'Leave' voted for 'BREXIT', 'Leave' means 'LEAVE', they do not want a 'return' ticket 'backdoor' into the E.U.
User avatar
By Beren
#14932378


If you just read what he says it's total incoherent rubbish, not that it makes it better if you listen to him too while he's putting on airs like a girl, but to some people it does perhaps.
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By Albert
#14932386
He makes total sense to me.

Oh ..... who am I kidding, perhaps he has autism? I hear a lot of people with autism can not express themselves coherently with words but are exceptionally intelligent otherwise.
User avatar
By ingliz
#14932404
Albert wrote:autism

More likely cocaine induced dementia.

Research sponsored by GlaxoSmithKline, and supported by the Medical Research Council, suggests that oxidative stress causes brain atrophy in cocaine-dependent people, and it is this cocaine-related brain atrophy that is responsible for their cognitive decline.

Cocaine Eats Up Brain Twice as Fast as Normal Aging, LiveScience wrote:"We need to study the symptoms of drug addiction in older people, because they are around and they are completely neglected at the moment," Karen Ersche, a neuroscientist at the University of Cambridge said. "They are undiagnosed, and some of the symptoms may be misunderstood as dementia."
User avatar
By Potemkin
#14932415
Beren wrote:https://www.facebook.com/Channel4News/videos/10156056076821939/

If you just read what he says it's total incoherent rubbish, not that it makes it better if you listen to him too while he's putting on airs like a girl, but to some people it does perhaps.

Theresa May once famously observed that "Brexit means Brexit!", which is undoubtedly a true statement but is of questionable informative value. Lol.
User avatar
By Victoribus Spolia
#14932449
:lol:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/13/politics ... index.html

Staff at Britain's Blenheim Castle were likely still cleaning up after a lavish dinner Thursday when The Sun dropped the contents of its wide-ranging interview with US President Donald Trump.

Hours into his working visit to the UK, Trump suggested his hosts might lose out in a trade deal to Europe. He criticized British Prime Minister Theresa May's plan for a soft Brexit, while praising her former Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson. He lashed out again at NATO and resumed his feud with London Mayor Sadiq Khan.

Here's what else came up:

Theresa May's proposed Brexit deal

Trump's visit comes at a time of political turmoil for the embattled British Prime Minister, who is fending off criticism over her plans for a "soft Brexit." Trump said her plan would be likely to "kill" any UK-US trade deal.
"If they do a deal like that, we would most likely be dealing with the European Union instead of dealing with the UK, so it will probably kill the deal.
"Because we have enough difficulty with the European Union. We are cracking down right now on the European Union because they have not treated the United States fairly on trading."
He also said he'd told May how to negotiate with the EU, but she ignored him.
"I would have done it much differently. I actually told Theresa May how to do it but she didn't agree, she didn't listen to me."

Boris Johnson quit his role as Foreign Secretary earlier this week, accusing May of allowing an optimistic Brexit vision to become clouded by a failure of ambition.
Trump praised Johnson, and said he would make a "great prime minister."
"Let me tell you, he's a very talented guy. I was very saddened to see that he was leaving government and I hope he goes back in at some point, because I think he's a very ... I think he's a great representative for your country," Trump said.
"I was very surprised and saddened that he was getting out of government. And you lost some other very good people," he continued. "Well, I'm not pitting one against the other, I'm just saying I think (Johnson) would be a great prime minister. I think he's got what it takes and I think he has got the right attitude to be a great prime minister."

Immigration

Trump declared that immigration has changed the fabric of the continent.
"My father Germany, my mother Scotland. So I have great love for countries in Europe. I think what's happened to Europe is a shame. I think the immigration, allowing the immigration to take place in Europe is a shame. I think it changed the fabric of Europe.
"And unless you act very quickly it's never going to be what it was, and I don't mean that in a positive way. So I think allowing millions and millions of people to come into Europe is very, very sad. I think you're losing your culture."

Queen Elizabeth II

Ahead of his scheduled meeting with Queen Elizabeth on Friday, he described the monarch as a "tremendous woman," praising her ability to avoid embarrassing mistakes.
"She is a tremendous woman, I really look forward to meeting her. I think she represents her country so well. If you think of it, for so many years she's represented her country, she's really never made a mistake. You don't see, like, anything embarrassing. She's just an incredible woman. My wife is a tremendous fan of hers," Trump said.
"(Queen Elizabeth has) a great and beautiful grace about her. No, I look forward (to meeting her). My mother loved the Queen. My mother coming from Scotland, and she'd come back every year religiously, go to Scotland.
"My mother loved the Queen. She thought the Queen was tremendous. Any time the Queen was on television my mother wanted to watch it."

London Mayor Sadiq Khan

There's no love lost between the US President and Sadiq Khan, who Trump said had done a "terrible job" as London mayor.
"Take a look at the terrorism that's taking place. Look what's going on in London. I think he's done a terrible job."
Trump also assailed Khan's record on crime, something he has done regularly in the past. In May he said a London hospital was "as bad as a military war zone hospital ... knives, knives, knives."

"I think he's done a bad job on crime, if you look. You take a look at your hospital in London, you know what I'm talking about, with all of the horrible things going on there with all of the crime that's being brought in.
"And I think he's not been hospitable to a government that is a very important government. Now he might not like the current President, but again, it's for me I represent the United States. I also represent a lot of people in Europe because a lot of people from Europe are in the United States."

NATO and trade

In the interview, Trump reiterated his frustration with past US administrations, saying they failed to act to rectify the disparity in financial commitment between the US and its NATO partners.
"I'll tell you what, we've had 40 years of presidents and have said that same thing in a nicer way and they got nothing, so, I mean, call it what you want, they're taking advantage of the United States.
"The United States is protecting the, you know, countries, most of which are the EU, and frankly, if you look at it, we get a double-barrel hit. We get hit on trade, where they treat us badly, they have barriers against us trading and you know, strong barriers and tariffs, and we get hit on NATO. So we have a double whammy, a double hit.
"Now it's not the United States, many presidents have come here and said this is not fair and then they go home and go to sleep. I'm not going to let that happen."

Protests

The President said he used to "love London as a city," but feels "unwelcome" by the protests marking his visit.
"I used to love London as a city. I haven't been there in a long time. I think your mayor has done a terrible job, but when they make you feel unwelcome, why would I stay there?
"And when I say that, I am talking about government because the people of the UK agree with me."

'England'

During the Trump strayed from the subject of politics to ruminate about the use of the word "England."
"You don't hear the word 'England' as much as you should. I miss the name England," he said.
"I think England is a beautiful name. And you don't hear it very much anymore. But (the football team at the World Cup is) playing as 'England.' That's very interesting. That's good," Trump said.
The four constituent nations of the UK have always represented themselves independently in international soccer competitions.
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