[Beren]

Also, Farage even called for another election FYI.

In January he called for a second referendum, you mean. I wonder if his bluff is still valid.

We'll see soon anyway, but I can't help myself see an election campaign going on already.

[B0ycey]

I wonder if his bluff is still valid.

Bluff, slip of the tongue, whatever. If I was May I would definitely milk his own words against him if he dared complain about a called second referendum.

Besides, he said he was confident leave would still win. Lets see if he backs his own words or if they turn out bullshit like during the EU referendum campaign.

[Beren]

Now he'd say May calls a second referendum only to save herself and because she couldn't reach an acceptable deal.

[Rugoz]

You're joking right? A second EU referendum when the public knows what is on offer solves everything. A general election solves nothing.

The public does not know what's on offer. The withdrawal agreement is just a temporary arrangement. A referendum should be held ~2 years from now when the final deal is on the table. A general election would bring a new negotiating team, not sure that would solve anything.

[Beren]

A general election would bring a new negotiating team, not sure that would solve anything.

If you mean Brexit, it could be solved by a second referendum rather than an election.

[B0ycey]

Now he'd say May calls a second referendum only to save herself and because she couldn't reach an acceptable deal.

Sure that is what he will say. But she will just quote what he said - so she will win the battle of wills.

The public does not know what's on offer. The withdrawal agreement is just a temporary arrangement. A referendum should be held ~2 years from now when the final deal is on the table. A general election would bring a new negotiating team, not sure that would solve anything.

It solves nothing as Corbyn is a cake eater. Unless he too wants ridicule for accepting single market rules but not being able to make trade deals - so that is unlikely to pass through parliament either. But no, I think it is clear what is on offer. And if people vote to take the withdrawal agreement then we can have another vote once the deal is complete if that makes you happy Rugoz?

[Beren]

Sure that is what he will say. But she will just quote what he said. So she will win the battle of wills.

But who'll win the referendum battle? May is so weak right now that even Farage could screw her.

[B0ycey]

But who'll win the referendum battle? May is so weak right now that even Farage could screw her.

My prediction. Remain 70-30. Two years ago was a protest vote as people didn't think it mattered. It does matter now and people always vote with their pocket when it actually matters.

I doubt anyone would consider it a battle of May vs Farage either. Although both are quite hated actually so any influence would be marginal.

[Beren]

My prediction. Remain 70-30. Two years ago was a protest vote as people didn't think it mattered. It does matter now and people always vote with their pocket when it actually matters.

I doubt anyone would consider it a battle of May vs Farage either. Although both are quite hated actually so any influence would be marginal.

I mean would May fall if Farage called for a boycott?

[B0ycey]

I mean would May fall if Farage called for a boycott?

I doubt it. I would high five her.

[Nonsense]

If Theresa May loses this vote she absolutely doesn't have to leave as prime minister, she should rather call a second referendum to make her legacy (a.k.a. chaos) complete.

Nonsense -

The 'problem' is Beren, she has no mandate in which to call another referendum, the only power's she has, are to deliver our exit from the E.U & that to call a general election.

The last of which is now not possible because we have fixed term parliaments, the only positive to that scenario is that the Tories are digging the hole much deeper into which it will be much harder to climb out of,leading to their political demise.

The fixed - term parliament Act was a deliberate attempt at gerrymandering, in order to thwart any attempt at their plans to create a deep, massive & wide schism in this country between the people the Tories support & those they do not.

The Tory MP's will prefer a leadership challenge as opposed to losing control amongst themselves in parliament.

As for the DUP, they are 'Judases', in taking British taxpayers money as a 'Bung' from the Tories, an act of corruption for which parliament has brought itself into disrepute.

[Varilion]

A big country like the UK leaving the EU is of course also a big loss to the EU.

Yet, there isn't in that any benefit for the UK.

[Rugoz]

It solves nothing as Corbyn is a cake eater. Unless he too wants ridicule for accepting single market rules but not being able to make trade deals - so that is unlikely to pass through parliament either. But no, I think it is clear what is on offer. And if people vote to take the withdrawal agreement then we can have another vote once the deal is complete if that makes you happy Rugoz?

First parliament must come to a decision, withdrawal agreement or no deal? Then that decision can be put to a vote. Brexit itself shouldn't be on the table already. The wording of the first referendum was clear, there was no ambiguity. It's up to parliament to implement Brexit to the best of its abilities. The UK is not a (semi-)direct democracy, hence it lacks proper procedures for such cases, yet trying to revert a democratic decision so early is still problematic, especially when the initiative comes from parliament. It's not even needed at this point, since reverting Brexit is always an option. The withdrawal agreement effectively keeps the UK in the EU for the time being.

[B0ycey]

I don't disagree it first needs to go to parliament. But when it gets voted down, what next? There is no alternative to a referendum vote. I believe Beren is only calling for an election because deep down he knows it is more chaotic that way. And democracy is about changing your choice anyway - and we have gone as far as we can go and nobody is happy. So lets just have a vote of no deal or remain and then nobody can complain they didn't know what they were voting for. After all, the Brexiteers promised unicorns and all that can be delivered are horses with horns sellotaped to their foreheads.

[JohnRawls]

Nonsense -

The 'problem' is Beren, she has no mandate in which to call another referendum, the only power's she has, are to deliver our exit from the E.U & that to call a general election.

The last of which is now not possible because we have fixed term parliaments, the only positive to that scenario is that the Tories are digging the hole much deeper into which it will be much harder to climb out of,leading to their political demise.

The fixed - term parliament Act was a deliberate attempt at gerrymandering, in order to thwart any attempt at their plans to create a deep, massive & wide schism in this country between the people the Tories support & those they do not.

The Tory MP's will prefer a leadership challenge as opposed to losing control amongst themselves in parliament.

As for the DUP, they are 'Judases', in taking British taxpayers money as a 'Bung' from the Tories, an act of corruption for which parliament has brought itself into disrepute.

@Albert
@Igor Antunov
@Kaiserschmarrn

And some others.

Get woke or go broke

[ingliz]

horses with horns sellotaped to their foreheads.

I think the English remoaners' saying is "donkeys with ice-cream cones taped ...". I suppose it's meant to evoke nostalgic images of dodging Morcambe's quick sands while trying to find the sea, kiss-me-quick hats and knotted handkerchiefs, grey days paddling and peeing in freezing grey waters, Donald McGill postcards, cheap b&bs, etc, etc, etc.

[Potemkin]

I think the English remoaners' saying is "donkeys with ice-cream cones taped ...". I suppose it's meant to evoke nostalgic images of dodging Morcambe's quick sands while trying to find the sea, kiss-me-quick hats, paddling and peeing in freezing grey waters, Donald McGill postcards, cheap b&bs, etc, etc, etc.

Aaahhhh, that takes me back.....

[Rich]

If I was an MP, I would treat the 2016 second referendum with total contempt and try to revoke article 50. But then if I was an MP, as I'm not a total cuck, I would refuse to give the oath of allegiance. If given the option in a referendum, I will vote to repeal article 50.

However under no circumstances will I support May's vassal state deal, but nor will I or would I support any one else's vassal state deal. Any deal negotiated under article 50 would / will result in a vassal state. Signing article 50 was cretinous, like the Germans signing the armistice deal in November 1918. If you want to leave the EU, you sabotage the EU from the inside until the other leaders beg you to leave. You then leave on your own terms not their's.

I will not support any renegotiation under article 50. I will not support any extension of article 50. If article 50 is not to be revoked then I support an immediate no deal Brexit. Will a no deal Brexit be a second Black Death, or will it lead to the restoration of Britain's Victorian supremacy? As Nancy Pelosi said, the only way to find out is to vote for it.

[Rugoz]

I don't disagree it first needs to go to parliament. But when it gets voted down, what next? There is no alternative to a referendum vote.

If parliament rejects the deal and any other deal that follows before March 29, there won't be a deal. Parliament committed to Brexit when it invoked article 50. If anything that was the legislative act that should have been subject to a referendum. (being a purist here).

I believe Beren is only calling for an election because deep down he knows it is more chaotic that way.

One can make the argument that a different government with different priorities should negotiate. Personally I think a directly elected commission should oversee the Brexit negotiations. That would separate the issue from other political considerations.

[B0ycey]

If parliament rejects the deal and any other deal that follows before March 29, there won't be a deal. Parliament committed to Brexit when it invoked article 50. If anything that was the legislative act that should have been subject to a referendum. (being a purist here).

Perhaps it should. But it wasn't. Many mistakes were executed on the assumption remain would win. And now you have a divided public. Being a purist my solution is simple. Everyone knows what is actually on offer so now there cannot be complaint if another election takes place - but only when May's deal gets voted down.

One can make the argument that a different government with different priorities should negotiate. Personally I think a directly elected commission should oversee the Brexit negotiations. That would separate the issue from other political considerations.

And the argument can be made. But Corbyns solution is May's agreement. So same problem, different government. But let's see where the card fall. I will wait until the 11th before I make a judgement. But I know what I believe is the easiest solution out if this mess.