[blackjack21]

David Davis resigns and sparks a Tory Brexiteer rebellion that could bring down the PM: Brexit Secretary says he 'couldn't sell out his own country' with a soft exit from EU as TWO more ministers quit

From what I hear, although staying on, Boris Johnson is essentially off the reservation as well.

A rabid right wing extremist like myself (that is, negative on globalism as presently conceived by the establishment) would love to see Teresa May go down in flames. I wasn't expecting this. I've been waiting with bated breath to see if Merkel would crater.

I hope they both do.

Mr Davis reportedly 'decided he couldn't sell out his own country', according to sources close to him. He was praised last night by Tory MPs including Jacob Rees-Mogg, who said he would oppose Mrs May's Brexit proposals.

I used to love reading Lord William Rees-Mogg's articles, and I've been watching Jacob rise from back bencher to a more prominent position. I think we need to see some more high defections. Maybe it's too soon for Boris Johnson to bow out, but he can't wait forever either.

[B0ycey]

I wonder if the UK will leave without a deal.

This whole mess was created by lies from the Leave campaign. It is either Hard Brexit or no Brexit - not this we can have best of both worlds Brexit as promised by the leavers. This White paper will likely be rejected by Brussels anyway so what next? May can't give any more concessions so they will have to leave without a deal or have another referendum, there are no other options. To leave without a deal will create a global recession and perhaps it is wise to give the voters the final say - because if May and the Tories continue towards the iceberg, they will get the blame solely on the fact they are in power and knew the consequences.

[JohnRawls]

Stuart Campbell has an interesting solution for the Brexit problem:

https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-divided-kingdom/#more-104642

Seems to give everyone what they want. No hard border in Ireland, keeps N.Ireland and Scotland in CU and SM, England and Wales get their Brexit.

Don't see why the EU would object. What do you think?

Lol, how about Tories will not accept it. It is a stupid plan also because it de facto divides the country and encourages all business to move to Northern Ireland and Scotland.

[Potemkin]

Lol, how about Tories will not accept it. It is a stupid plan also because it de facto divides the country and encourages all business to move to Northern Ireland and Scotland.

Hmm... I'm still not seeing a downside to this, JR. And the Tories won't be in power forever....

[Kaiserschmarrn]

[KS note: Threads merged]

[Prosthetic Conscience]

Lol, how about Tories will not accept it. It is a stupid plan also because it de facto divides the country and encourages all business to move to Northern Ireland and Scotland.

If it encourages businesses to move there, that's presumably because the EU is a better place to be. The benefits could be had by the whole of the UK, but it's the Tories blocking that too. We could rename ourselves "the Divided Kingdom of Greater Scotia and Brexitopia".

[Beren]

This White paper will likely be rejected by Brussels anyway so what next?

It probably will, especially if Gove goes and tells them 'Be generous to us, or else we walk away.' I wonder if even Trump could do that, not to mention an agonising UK government on the brink of collapse. I think a snap election should come next, which should be decided between Brexiteers and Labour.

[Albert]

David Davis resigns and sparks a Tory Brexiteer rebellion that could bring down the PM: Brexit Secretary says he 'couldn't sell out his own country' with a soft exit from EU as TWO more ministers quit

From what I hear, although staying on, Boris Johnson is essentially off the reservation as well.

A rabid right wing extremist like myself (that is, negative on globalism as presently conceived by the establishment) would love to see Teresa May go down in flames. I wasn't expecting this. I've been waiting with bated breath to see if Merkel would crater.

I hope they both do.


I used to love reading Lord William Rees-Mogg's articles, and I've been watching Jacob rise from back bencher to a more prominent position. I think we need to see some more high defections. Maybe it's too soon for Boris Johnson to bow out, but he can't wait forever either.

May has made a mess of the whole thing. It is unclear what she is doing and at times she does things as if she is actually trying to keep Britain in EU. Plus she threw Tommy in prison like a tyrant.

[Beren]

Boris Johnson resigns as foreign secretary

May finished?

[layman]

She could deliver the soft brexit if labour supported it but I suspect Corbyn is looking for any opportunity to bring down the government and deliver his own socialist version of hard brexit.

He has his own problems though as 80 percent of labour members are remainders, especially the young. Therefore he is even less capable of delivering brexit with a slim majority.

This is all very predictable when you try to deliver something this big with 52 % of public support, 30% of mps and probably only about 10% of business.

If the brexiteers had any forsight they would have delayed article 50 until they had won the domestic battle and made economic preparations for a no deal. Of course they were too impatient and too high of their victory to do this.

[MadMonk]

What a f-king shambles. David Cameron may be one of the largest twats that has ever walked the face of this earth (Boris Johnson being a heavy contender) but May has not only lost any semblance of control of this clusterfuck, she is hitting iceberg after iceberg without slowing down.

Of course, who could thread this needle when they (Tory party) never wanted Brexit in the first place? "Strengthening our negotiating position...". Yes, your negotiating position is getting stronger by the second!

[Albert]

[Nonsense]

I predicted what BREXIT will produce, a betrayal of the referendum by Theresa MAY & her Party.
Let me say this quite clearly to 'REMAINERS', both in the Tory Party & the Labour Party.

To believe that a transitional 'deal, which is what BREXIT is\means, can be agreed, yet alone accepted by the majority of people who voted 'LEAVE' in the referendum is DELUSIONAL.

ANY 'deal' agreed by Theresa MAY will be seen as a BETRAYAL & the TORY Party will be toast at the next GE.

MAY, is pushing a negotiating policy that will NOT be accepted in Europe, that's why David DAVIES & Boris JOHNSON are right to resign.
In fact, they should have done so earlier.

The reason that MAY is delusional, is because it flies in the face of the EU's 'Four Freedoms'.

Let me quote various statements by Martin SCHULZ, former President of the EU commission,

“On free movement, I see a clear majority in the European Parliament for insisting that the fundamental freedoms are inseparable;
i.e. no freedom of movement for goods, capital and services, without free movement of persons.”
Speech to the LSE on 23 September 2016.

Another speech-
"Secondly, on free movement – I see a clear majority in the European Parliament for insisting that the fundamental freedoms are inseparable, i.e. no freedom of movement for goods, capital and services, without free movement of persons. I refuse to imagine a Europe where lorries and hedge funds are free to cross borders but citizens cannot. I cannot accept any hierarchy between these four freedoms. The Union is a community with a shared destiny, a model of society, not an accountants’ club".

Again,He argues," the ‘four freedoms’ of the EU are indivisible" and calls for zero tolerance of xenophobic violence and hate crime.
Warning of no a la carte menu, he promises to tackle BREXIT in a firm and fair manner.

NOTE; the two words regarding the EU & the 'Four Freedoms', "INSEPARABLE" & "INDIVISIBLE".

Those two words alone mean that the EU will NOT,CANNOT negotiate a 'deal' that in any way relaxes the fundamental principles on which the EU has become established on, ie , the, 'Four Freedoms'.

That's why Theresa MAY & 'REMAINERS' are DELUSIONAL.

No 'picking or choosing', AKA , 'a la carte' menu, they are not, will not be negotiable.

To include them would be the end of the EU, because any of the 27 could say, "if Britain can chip away at the EU by getting a deal, so too can we".

Consequently, if there is no political coup by the 22 club, then ALL, not just T. MAY will be toast, the TORY Party will be too.

There is no comfort for CORBYN either, because the constituencies that were marginal for them at the time of the referendum, will see their political shenanigans & punish them severely.

The TORY MP's who also agitate to 'remain' are political goners at the next GE.
I believe that the DUP will help turf MAY out on her butt, otherwise CORBYN will win the next GE.

[Albert]

Well May says, the freedom of movement will end, EU court jurisdiction will end, they will stop sending money to joint EU budget. So what is the problem exactly?

Why are some Labour members asking for second referendum?

Could this be soft-Brexiters rebellion and May is actually standing on hard-Brexit. This is confusing.

The issues seems to be about staying in the customs union or not. To fully leave or stay in half way like Switzerland or something.

[Hong Wu]

I agree with Albert. I can understand why some people are upset; since Brexit was not really clearly defined, people were able to fit all sorts of expectations into it. Ultimately the argument for Brexit is people voted for it so it's valid, if they end up getting the minimum of Brexit (which is predictable if you consider that it's not smart to antagonize the losers if they were in a margin of 45% or something... liberals don't seem to get that...) then the answer is more political actions and more votes. Which a lot of this drama is about trying to get...

[B0ycey]

Boris Johnson resigns as foreign secretary

May finished?

The white paper has served its purpose.


Time to retire it and bring in EUREF2.

[JohnRawls]

Oh UK... i won't say that i said so but i said so...

You have very few choices:

1) Soft brexit which is basically EU membership without voting rights.

2) Hard Brexit aka economy crashes and you start being the sickman of Europe again. You will loose a big chunk after Brexit but the main prospect is lower growth than rest of Europe.

3) Eu Referendum again to overturn Brexit.

There is no "inbetween" options because EU membership comes with all obligations and all benefits. You can't cherry pick parts.
And if somebody going to say " Why not? Please? "

It is obvious that if we let you cherry pick compared to the other members than you will become more economically advantaged against the rest of Europe. Not to mention we will have to give rest of the members the same luxury which will lead to the collapse of the EU. It is either fair game for everyone in the EU or get out and create your own club with hookers, whisky and blackjack.

[One Degree]

I said from the beginning Brexit would never happen. No one should be surprised by May’s ‘turd’. This is all about global capitalists undermining populism. There is no ‘economic concern’ for the people. It’s all bullshit.
Do you want to be controlled by an Capitalist Oligarchy or not? It’s quite simple. The complications are intentional to confuse you.

[B0ycey]

He has his own problems though as 80 percent of labour members are remainders, especially the young. Therefore he is even less capable of delivering brexit with a slim majority.

What are you smoking Layman? 80% Labour supporters are remainers?

There is a reason why Corbyn echos the same words May mentions when it comes to Brexit. Brexit is isn't a class divide, it is a regional divide. And Labour have some strong Brexit constituencies to consider before becoming the 'voice of remain'. And don't kid yourself. Both he and May suffer from delusions when it comes to this half in half out Brexit they believe they can deliver. They are lucky to be in the opposition actually. Otherwise it would be they who would have had the resignations today. So an election won't save Britain from Hard Brexit or this shitfest we have going on today. Only EUREF2 can do that. So are the Tories sure they can pull off a successful hard Brexit? Because if they can't, it is time to dump Article 50 into the fuck ups of history and bring sanity to these green and pleasant island with another vote.

[layman]

@B0ycey read my post I said members, not supporters.

It’s quite simple.

It is anything but simple. It is a billion miles away from simple. Even if the eu is a tumour like some say then cutting it off with a big knife can kill the patient.

Unlike the Swiss, the uk has grown and intertwined with the eu over decades. Business and institutions exist based on this model. The Swiss have in a similar way grown with the eu but with hundreds oh bilateral deals which took years to make.

The idea you can just walk away without dire consequences is pig ignorance and/or pig headed ideology. That is apart from a very small number who see a chance to enrich themselves in some devious way.

As I said before, The only brexit that made any sense was an untra libertarian Singapore of the north style one. If you wanted that then a 2 year delay in enacting article 50 would be needed at least to prepare.