[Nonsense]

It's not. Have you payed any attention to what Brexiters want/expect?

How do you know that it's not true?

Being literate, I actually pay a lot of attention, particularly when I am drawn to drawn to the literacy errors(payed) of posters that are not mere typo's.

[Nonsense]

No, I meant what I said. It's you that seems to have the problem accepting it as being true.



They're incorrect because they're not based reality. Not then and certainly not now.



Patrick Minford headed the only economic forecast to show benefits from Brexit.

It made too many bizarre assumptions. Unicorns were going to turn up in the shape of the EU waving all standards on imports from the UK.

Incorrect, I stand by my assertion that you do not like the message.

MINFORD's detractors, including the OECD,CEP/LSE, EfB, OE, NIGEM , either are funded by the E.U, make certain assumptions, limit the effects to a projected time frame(2020),have a static computable general equilibrium model of comparison, or are varying according to whether we reach a tariff -quota free agreement under WTO or FTA rules.

Al are projections or forecast, of which there are inbuilt bias's, depending on assumptions that are no longer relevant(expired) or simply 'educated' guesses in the loosest possible way & neither side is correct for reasons previously stated by both of us(reality).

I accept that some studies have included bizarre, untrue, as it will probably turn out, assumptions, such as E.U standards on goods or services, but, to which, contrarily, the expectation is assumed, that the U.K will necessarily lower our standards, which is highly unlikely.

In fact, before entry into the E.U, the U.K had always progressively raised it's standards of quality & safety.

So much so that the British Standards Institute(BSI) is at least the equivalent, if not better than EC or other accredited standards bodies on the global system of standards, it certainly pre-dates EC certification, which is based more on conformity within the single market, as opposed to the general excellence that is the hallmark of BSI.
Consequently, the U.K has no worries on future compliance with Europe on standards, rather, it is they that will use their own rules, as with potential tariffs to erect protective barriers to outside competition.

[JohnRawls]

Incorrect, I stand by my assertion that you do not like the message.

MINFORD's detractors, including the OECD,CEP/LSE, EfB, OE, NIGEM , either are funded by the E.U, make certain assumptions, limit the effects to a projected time frame(2020),have a static computable general equilibrium model of comparison, or are varying according to whether we reach a tariff -quota free agreement under WTO or FTA rules.

Al are projections or forecast, of which there are inbuilt bias's, depending on assumptions that are no longer relevant(expired) or simply 'educated' guesses in the loosest possible way & neither side is correct for reasons previously stated by both of us(reality).

I accept that some studies have included bizarre, untrue, as it will probably turn out, assumptions, such as E.U standards on goods or services, but, to which, contrarily, the expectation is assumed, that the U.K will necessarily lower our standards, which is highly unlikely.

In fact, before entry into the E.U, the U.K had always progressively raised it's standards of quality & safety.

So much so that the British Standards Institute(BSI) is at least the equivalent, if not better than EC or other accredited standards bodies on the global system of standards, it certainly pre-dates EC certification, which is based more on conformity within the single market, as opposed to the general excellence that is the hallmark of BSI.
Consequently, the U.K has no worries on future compliance with Europe on standards, rather, it is they that will use their own rules, as with potential tariffs to erect protective barriers to outside competition.

Daddy Tusk gonna smack your UK asses so hard

[Nonsense]

Daddy Tusk gonna smack your UK asses so hard

he will need the yet to be formed E.U army to back that up.

[JohnRawls]

:lol: he will need the yet to be formed E.U army to back that up.

Tusk: EU would be enthusiastic if Scotland applied to rejoin : https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -to-rejoin

“I want to stop myself from saying something too blunt. Sometimes I feel I am Scots. I’m very Scottish now, especially after Brexit,” he told BBC One’s The Andrew Marr Show.

OINK PIGGY OINK!

[Nonsense]

Tusk: EU would be enthusiastic if Scotland applied to rejoin : https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -to-rejoin



OINK PIGGY OINK!

I did watch him being interviewed on television at the weekend, he gives the impression that, as a Europhile(why not , E.U citizens are his paymasters)he is seeking compensation for the loss of the U.K by giving the nod to Scotland joining the E.U, but it will definitely not be doing so.

I think that Northern Ireland is a different matter, although the issue with it's connection to Brexit is largely passed, should both sides join together, it will be the deciding factor that unification = membership of the E.U, as opposed to EIRE leaving the E.U.

I think that their case is not as contentious as Scotland's is, because of the 1707 Act of Settlement, with Scotland's political union with England & Ireland.

Ironically, it was that Act that brought into being the suffix ,'Great' being tagged on to Britain, which, to my mind, like 'United' is to Kingdom of the U.K, is a subjective term, it's usage I dislike, because it hype's up the title of, Britain, which is subjective or even contentious, besides, I do not think that the British really shout about such things, particularly since we have happily shed our empire & it's attendant colonialism.

[B0ycey]

I understand why, when project fear has flagged the possibility that we will lose out by leaving the E.U, but, at the current rate of growth, even your own projection of a 2-3% sustained loss, implies a recession lasting for that sustained period.

Right, firstly any growth figures today is because we were (1) in the EU and (2) currently in a transition period. What you need to understand is we are discussing what is going to happen after the transition period (so don't look at what is happening today) and there aren't many certainties with Brexit but a recession is one of them. The BoE forecast a 5.5% reduction in GDP and me being more hopeful suggests perhaps 2-3% being a realistic figure as BoE forecast have been over cautious since the Brexit referendum. Nonethless I hate to burst the bubble but the BoE have more data so...

Clearly, that cannot be correct, however, a 2-3% loss over a decade say, would imply a 0.2-0.3% loss per annum in economic activity, but which would probably be more than offset by increased activity arising from our ability to trade freely elsewhere without encumbrance to E.U rules.

No, it is 2%-3% per annum LOSS for a sustained period of time I am anticipating. It will perhaps start slow as the EU businesses look for new customers, but once they do they aren't coming back. Plus I expect much of the Aerospace, Automobile and a large portion of manufacturing to relocate to the EU with finance and banking moving out of London too. Again not straight away but it will prolong the recession as they continue to move out. I doubt any new trade deals we get could ever compensate these loses to fulfil this 4%-8% for growth you are hoping for BTW.

A sustained recession would never be contemplated by the government, indeed, the tools to avert that situation are already being deployed to that effect, that is that public spending is increasing beyond the net growth rate as a proportion of national income & adding to the national debt.

What tools do you think the government have to stop a recession?

They are literally putting 50% of their international trade at risk. They cannot stop this now. They can try and make a deal with the EU but ultimately that is not entirely down to us is it? Also what spending do you hope for growth within the Tory manifesto? The Tories aren't doing a "New Deal" like what was in the Labour manifesto. They are putting money into public services, reversing austerity and cutting taxes. You might increase some public spending however in a recession people instinctively save and should unemployment increase tenfold that is a bigger factor in our spending habits than a 1% reduction in income tax.

Any government would 'cover' that debt with the narrative that it is an 'investment', well, if it results in a negative return over the period, then, an investment it is not.

All borrowing will be to pay for Brexit and have zero impact in 'investment'. It may well cost them more than the 2008 crash. With any luck they might well slash your pension. You wanted it, you pay for it.

[ingliz]

there aren't many certainties with Brexit

There is one.

Today, the Piffle confirmed that the UK will be seeking an 'Australian' deal ie. No Deal.

[Kaiserschmarrn]

Tusk: EU would be enthusiastic if Scotland applied to rejoin : https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -to-rejoin

The EU is a lovely organisation by and for Europeans, isn't it?

[Istanbuller]

Daddy Tusk gonna smack your UK asses so hard

I believe it will be the opposite. Britain's world experience is greater than sum of all EU members. The UK is superior to Europe on almost everything.

[JohnRawls]

The EU is a lovely organisation by and for Europeans, isn't it?

Well, to a degree. UK left the EU so its time to get the hands dirty of sorts. I know you will say that this is vindictive but that is just how geopolitics is. You can't have some fucker trying to ruin your backyard or god forbid challenge you directly. Long story short is that EU will cut down UK to size and then we shall see.

[fokker]

Probably propaganda by some psychotic left-winger, of which there are many which Brexit has exposed & planted on the doors to denigrate people the poster disagrees with- such as patriots celebrating the 31 St January....just thinking.

It is right wingers who do this kind of stuff - BNP, Britain First supporters etc. Polish kids get ridiculed and bullied in UK schools for being different. UK is no more tolerant than other developed countries in the world. I do not find it unexpected at all as the number of Polish immigrants arriving has been quite high over the last decade. They are the biggest group, have their own shops, build their own communities and as a result also face most xenophobia. Sadly instead of fixing the problem at EU level by allowing the UK to control immigration (e.g introduce language tests, clear criminal record verification, proving they can support themselves without a job for at least a few months until they find one as minimal criteria, removal of unemployed), it lead to UK leaving the EU. But sadly Europhiles see problems only in the UK. Some say Brits hate Eastern Europeans, but I'm more inclined to believe it was tip of the iceberg when they came as they have been unhappy with immigration for some time. The way movement of workers works within the EU also results in less pressure on immigrants to integrate as they can return home and come back any time they want, without meeting any criteria at all, compounded by internet access as one no longer has to learn host country language.

What is never mentioned is that every immigrant must accept there will be some level of xenophobia directed against them and their children in any foreign country as there will always be people who will hate them and blame them for all problems irrespective of their share. If they cannot deal with it they shouldn't be migrating. Being fluent in host country language, avoiding hanging out with country men too much and avoid being loud on the streets will reduce this to minimum but never remove it.

You as a British person can shed more light on these problems.

There is an interesting video on Youtube about Polish radicalism in the UK

.

It turns out Poles more extreme than Brits and sometimes they end up on the other end too .

I personally hope after Brexit Britain forces most of those Eastern European workers to return back home as they are needed there due to population crisis.

[Nonsense]

It is right wingers who do this kind of stuff - BNP, Britain First supporters etc. Polish kids get ridiculed and bullied in UK schools for being different. UK is no more tolerant than other developed countries in the world. I do not find it unexpected at all as the number of Polish immigrants arriving has been quite high over the last decade. They are the biggest group, have their own shops, build their own communities and as a result also face most xenophobia. Sadly instead of fixing the problem at EU level by allowing the UK to control immigration (e.g introduce language tests, clear criminal record verification, proving they can support themselves without a job for at least a few months until they find one as minimal criteria, removal of unemployed), it lead to UK leaving the EU. But sadly Europhiles see problems only in the UK. Some say Brits hate Eastern Europeans, but I'm more inclined to believe it was tip of the iceberg when they came as they have been unhappy with immigration for some time. The way movement of workers works within the EU also results in less pressure on immigrants to integrate as they can return home and come back any time they want, without meeting any criteria at all, compounded by internet access as one no longer has to learn host country language.

What is never mentioned is that every immigrant must accept there will be some level of xenophobia directed against them and their children in any foreign country as there will always be people who will hate them and blame them for all problems irrespective of their share. If they cannot deal with it they shouldn't be migrating. Being fluent in host country language, avoiding hanging out with country men too much and avoid being loud on the streets will reduce this to minimum but never remove it.

You as a British person can shed more light on these problems.

There is an interesting video on Youtube about Polish radicalism in the UK

.

It turns out Poles more extreme than Brits and sometimes they end up on the other end too .

I personally hope after Brexit Britain forces most of those Eastern European workers to return back home as they are needed there due to population crisis.

I understand where you are coming from, but left-wingers know what the right-wing narrative is, so, it's quite plausible to make an assumption that left-wingers, who are often more extreme, politically, than the opposite end of the political agitators spectrum, can simply concoct a typical right-wing standpoint & post it where it would be 'discovered' & presented to the media for publication in order to denigrate the right-wing.

Of course, the press, which is now mainly 'left-wing' by nature, because they oppose Brexit, would happily publish anything which embarrasses the government, in particular the BBC.

[Rugoz]

Well, to a degree. UK left the EU so its time to get the hands dirty of sorts. I know you will say that this is vindictive but that is just how geopolitics is. You can't have some fucker trying to ruin your backyard or god forbid challenge you directly. Long story short is that EU will cut down UK to size and then we shall see.

Right, let's destroy the nation states that do not want to be part of the 4th reich. Looks like JohnRawls has gone full Hitler.

[Potemkin]

:lol:

Right, let's destroy the nation states that do not want to be part of the 4th reich. Looks like JohnRawls has gone full Hitler.

[JohnRawls]

:lol:

Right, let's destroy the nation states that do not want to be part of the 4th reich. Looks like JohnRawls has gone full Hitler.

@Potemkin

True life story....

[Beren]

It's full weird indeed that JR is still obsessed with this topic so much, although it may be more natural that the Brits finally quit than their joining was.

The true story of Dunkirk in a nutshell.

Hitler spared the lives of 330,000 Allied troops because he still believed peace with Britain was possible and his gesture would be appreciated, but it rather became one of the finest examples of British heroism. Pretty much like Brexit is supposed to be one of the finest examples of Britishness and the British spirit, although it's rather a great demonstration of their freakishness.


They should be behind bars indeed.

[Kaiserschmarrn]

Well, to a degree. UK left the EU so its time to get the hands dirty of sorts. I know you will say that this is vindictive but that is just how geopolitics is. You can't have some fucker trying to ruin your backyard or god forbid challenge you directly. Long story short is that EU will cut down UK to size and then we shall see.

We're getting a lot of chest-thumping and jingoism from you lately.

You seem to be of the view that a peaceful, cooperative and mutually beneficial relationship is not desirable or possible. Say, something similar to Canada and the US. Why not?

[JohnRawls]

We're getting a lot of chest-thumping and jingoism from you lately.

You seem to be of the view that a peaceful, cooperative and mutually beneficial relationship is not desirable or possible. Say, something similar to Canada and the US. Why not?

But Brexiters don't want that right? The undertone that hardline Brexiters have is that they will milk EU for maximum benefits with no downsides and then try to outcompete the EU by using trade deals with other nations? Well and the usual, removal of standards, low taxation etc (Here its foggy but its part of the package)

[Kaiserschmarrn]

But Brexiters don't want that right? The undertone that hardline Brexiters have is that they will milk EU for maximum benefits with no downsides and then try to outcompete the EU by using trade deals with other nations? Well and the usual, removal of standards, low taxation etc (Here its foggy but its part of the package)

It's quite telling that leaving the EU is apparently equivalent to ruining its backyard if not a direct challenge and wanting a mutually beneficial trade deal is milking the EU. Just how insecure are you guys?

If the US can have close trade and other ties with Canada without demanding that Canada submit to US courts, dynamically align its regulations or dictate its tax policy, I should think the EU can man up and manage the same. After all, it's the US which is the imperialist bully, while the EU is a benign block whose only objective is peaceful cooperation and prosperity of Europeans.