Rich wrote:I'm not particularly a fan of referendums but although I didn't want to see tax benefits and other subsides given to gay marriages, but if I'd been Irish I'd be perfectly willing to accept the result of the 2015 referendum. Even gay marriage is not a perfect binary issue but its close enough. The same again with abortion, although not a binary issue its possible to present it as such in a coherent way but even if the Irish question had been dealt with the Brexit referendum did not answer
Should we leave the EU and join the EEA?
Should we leave the Single market?
Should we leave the Customs Union?
Should we leave the jurisdiction of the ECJ?
Should we leave the jurisdiction of the ECHR?
Should we leave Euratom?
Should we leave the Social Charter agreement?
Should we end European Free movement?
What control over health and safety standards should we sacrifice to get a free trade deal with the United States?
Should we abandon protection and subsides of our farmers to get a free trade deal with the United States?
How much should we abandon security concerns to get a trade deal with China?
Should we allow looser immigration restriction and student visas to get a trade deal with India?
Brexiteer fascists think they have the sole right to answer these questions? This is why I say the referendum was worthless garbage, because the EU can not be reduced to a binary question. This was a Tory Brexit referendum, promised in 2013 to solve a Tory problem, conditional on winning a majority in 2015. But I did accept the result. The Tories had a majority, so absolutely nothing stood in the way of them delivering a Tory Brexit. Brexit could have been done before I ever got another vote on it. So don't come whining to me that you haven't got Brexit. The Brexiteers wanted the Tory government to have absolute control over the negotiations. They wanted no one else to have any say in the result. And then these whining narcissists have the audacity to complain about what May has negotiated. Its not the fault of Labour, the Lib Dems or the SNP if you're not happy with the deal.
Brexiteers, you knew when you voted in the referendum that the Conservative Parliamentary Party was not hard Brexit. You knew that Tories that didn't believe in Brexit would have to deliver the result, what are you complaining about? You don't want to listen to me, why didn't you listen to Peter Hitchens? He's a long time Brexiteer, but what he says on this is almost the same as me. If you want to Brexit get a parliamentary majority and then don't invoke article 50, but negotiate your deal while you are inside from a position of strength. Brexiteers have acted like the twats from the Confederacy who left the Union before they had got an exit deal and then have spent the last 150 years whining about the results of their own stupidity.
Nonsense -
Rich -
Should we leave the EU and join the EEA?
Should we leave the Single market?
Should we leave the Customs Union?
Should we leave the jurisdiction of the ECJ?
Should we leave the jurisdiction of the ECHR?
Should we leave Euratom?
Should we leave the Social Charter agreement?
Should we end European Free movement?
Nonsense -
Apart from the euratom issue, which is within the original 1957 Treaty of the Common Market, but,is also part of the 'divorce settlement' within the 'Withdrawl Agreement',the rest are part - parcel of the E.U itself & to be a member is conditional on acceptance of the rules of the 'club'.
Rich -
What control over health and safety standards should we sacrifice to get a free trade deal with the United States?
Should we abandon protection and subsides of our farmers to get a free trade deal with the United States?
How much should we abandon security concerns to get a trade deal with China?
Should we allow looser immigration restriction and student visas to get a trade deal with India?
Nonsense - IMHO, its a NO to all of them.
Rich -
Brexiteer fascists think they have the sole right to answer these questions?
Nonsense -
Apart from the inflammatory nature of calling 'Brexiteers' "fascist", people never voted for 'BREXIT', they voted 'LEAVE'-a very different animal indeed & being their democratic decision was to 'LEAVE', they have every 'right' to answer those 'questions', just as others have the 'right to 'ASK' those questions.
If the referendum in 2016 was about 'TORY' internal politics, which, in part I accept, it still doesn't settle the question of, WHY the people also decided to vote 'LEAVE', which, I assume, that you think those within the TORY Party wanted, What I mean to say is, those 'TORY' issues, despite CAMERONS duplicity, resonated with the voters in that referendum & they voted accordingly.
Rich -
So don't come whining to me that you haven't got Brexit. The Brexiteers wanted the Tory government to have absolute control over the negotiations. They wanted no one else to have any say in the result. And then these whining narcissists have the audacity to complain about what May has negotiated. Its not the fault of Labour, the Lib Dems or the SNP if you're not happy with the deal.
Nonsense -
This is where your post descends into the realms of being nonsensical.
I am not whining that we haven't got 'BREXIT', if I were 'whining', it would be because the government have created a 'BREXIT' WITHOUT a mandate, when they were ONLY instructed by voters, to LEAVE'.
It is RIGHT that the government have absolute control-NOT-on 'negotiations on a 'BREXIT', but, just on 'LEAVING' & the 'Divorce Settlement' which completes that instruction.
The 'problem' is, they HAVE NOT got 'full control', they ceded 'control' to parliament when they allowed a 'meaningful' vote, which they have now had & should be denied any more say in the proceedings to LEAVE.
In other words, parliament has had it's
say, the government must have it's
way(elected by the voters in a general election, instructed-AKA-
ordered to LEAVE by referendum) & must now get on to
delivering 'LEAVE'.
You say it's not the 'fault' of LABOUR,SNP or the Lib Dems if we are NOT happy with the 'deal'.
REALLY!, Are you an 'ostrich' Rich?
The government were not instructed to negotiate a 'deal' of any kind, yet alone one costing a questionable £38-39 BILLION, or any future trading relationship with europe, ALL being contingent on one another to be a single package with 'one-foot-IN-one foot OUT ' being the final outcome.
Leaving, settling the accounts, future relationship with europe, are all matters that should have been done separately,sequentially & not on the basis of being contingent on each to reach that 'settlement'.
Now, the chronology of thse negotiations would have been a separate question, the order of which should have been sorted at the time of invoking Article 50.
That is NOT 'LEAVE', that is 'BREXIT'
As I have said before, those 'REMAINER' MP's, with all of their little schemes(dreams)of keeping the U.K within the E.U, will get their come-uppance at the next election.
CORBYN's call for an election,because he will not get a 2nd referendum is a pathetic attempt, not to defeat the Tories electoralloy, but to defeat the referendum result.
Come the next election failure for LABOUR, because that is the price that they may have to pay for their obstructive actions on leaving the E.U, the real suffering will be the people already reaping the effects of 'TORYISM'.
Voters WILL remember the shenanigans by their MP's, in a matter which is NONE of their parliamentary business, save to DELIVER 'LEAVE', the instruction(ORDER)that 'LEAVE' voters gave them.