[fokker]

I suggested after the first attempted coup in Labour party by Blairites that a house cleaning is necessary and if Corbyn doesn't do it, it will repeat. He needs to make it clear Labour party is the main left wing party, representing the working class. Blairites need to go elsewhere. Unfortunately the side effect of predominantly two party system is these parties get invaded and corrupted.

[Beren]

Well I do agree this seems to be a rash act without thinking about the next stage from the seven.

Because the next stage is exit. Umunna had great ambitions, I guess, but he got screwed, so he screws back, which is the same with the others too. They had to realise that their political careers are over.

[Heisenberg]

Those seven MP's, like the 'gang of four', will also become part of the detritus of political after-life, that's what happens to politicians who fail to learn the lessons of political history.

I don't even think they'll have as much success as the "Gang of Four" who, whatever one thinks of them, were actually substantial people with real experience and political achievements to their names. The only one of these seven MPs I have heard of is Chuka Umunna, and that's only because he was caught editing his own Wikipedia page to call himself the "British Obama".

And, as I write this, it appears Angela Smith has managed to make headlines for referring to ethnic minority voters as having a "funny tinge". Not the best look for someone who claims to have left a party because it is institutionally racist.

[B0ycey]

Well their words suggest they want to maintain their political career not to exit it. Obviously they blame Corbyn and don't want to be associated with him for whatever reason they have. As that seems to be the case I suspect they are just hoping more people will jump ship, from whatever political party, so they can form a new party as seven voices isn't enough to make a difference. But until there is a manifesto or a party to align up to why would any MP jump ship? That would be political suicide. And as such that seems to be the sevens main problem in keeping any political ambitions alive.

[Beren]

The only one of these seven MPs I have heard of is Chuka Umunna, and that's only because he was caught editing his own Wikipedia page to call himself the "British Obama".

At the age of 40 time has come for him to be honest with himself and realise he's not the British Obama, which is supposed to mean nothing else than the first non-white British PM, and move on. Or maybe he still hopes it's possible?

[skinster]

I'm celebrating those who left Labour today.

[skinster]

[skinster]

[Rich]

So the main complaint of the Seven, now eight is that there's a lot of people in the Labour party with a funny tinge, who don't show proper deference to Jews?

[SolarCross]

So the main complaint of the Seven, now eight is that there's a lot of people in the Labour party with a funny tinge, who don't show proper deference to Jews?

In fairness it is pretty hard for jews and muslims to be on the same side given their history which goes way back before Israel all the way back to mighty mo himself. Consequently it is pretty hard for a party to pander to the special interests of both groups at the same time.

Jews have been around for long time and they are generally pretty well off but in recent decades the muslim population has really taken off, so in terms of sheer numbers there are increasingly more votes to be had from muslims than jews.

I wonder when the Conservatives will face this dilemma? They surely will.

[Nonsense]

CORBYN is the 'Marmite' politician, but, if he is as good as his word on what he wants to do with the economy then he will win through at the next election.

I believe that is so, even though I have never,ever voted, or considered voting 'Labour', which is funny really, because the very reason's that I never voted for them, is the exact reason that CORBYN is so popular.

That is that he says he intends to change the system that is loaded against ordinary people,now, in my opinion over very many decades, 'Labour' have never delivered the 'goods' for ordinary people.
They have patronised the poorer amongst us by increasing the incomes of the poorer members of society through the Benefits system, that was & is wrong.

Just as Foreign Aid is wrong in practice, giving benefits to all & sundry with no 'quid quo pro' is also wrong.

'REAL' incomes for people at the lower income scales must be increased, conversely, taxes on the rich,better-off must increase too & company profits earned in this country must be taxed fairly without deterring demand for labour.

These 'turncoats' of both parties are disloyal to their professed reason's for being in politics.

They are akin to rats jumping on to a sinking ship, particularly the one who has joined the Tories.

Those MP's from the Labour Party, 'supposedly' entered politics in order to change what they perceived as being 'wrong' in the system of this country.

Now, they have jumped ship, from the very vessels that profess to be the agents of that change.

How they think that they will be able to pusue that objective from their new position outside of the parties that furnished them with political 'credibility' is impossible to posit that possibility.

Just as 'no man is an island', so too with no MP without a party, neither, of which can expect to influence changes & their constituents belief in them will rapidly wane.

When those MP's say that CORBYN is 'unfit' to be PM, just who do they think they are to judge him?

If he, according to their opinion, is 'unfit' for office, what about Theresa MAY or Vince CABLE, now there's a pair of performing liabilities if there were a pair unfit for office.

[demima]

These turncoats (both Con and Lab) keep banging on about a Peoples Vote to overturn Brexit and that the people should have their say are surprisingly reluctant to call a by election. They will lose their seats at the next election.

Cowards and spivs.

[AFAIK]

I'm amazed by-elections aren't automatically triggered when MPs defect from their parties. There's been a strong emphasis on party leaders and party manifestos for decades if not centuries and whips have been bullying back benchers into following the party line for hundreds of years.

My impression is that many of the political crises of recent times would be solved, or more likely prevented, if politicians were subject to recall. Would the Ukranian gov't secretly switch allegiance from the EU to Russia if they knew they'd all be shown the door as soon as the decision was announced. Would the Indian gov't confiscate 80% of cash in circulation if the people could unseat them in non violent rebellion?

[Nonsense]

I am against 'brand' politics, but those MP's are 'rebels without a cause', they are now without a political home & I strongly suspect their local support will wither away once the furore over the E.U has been quelled.

[Nonsense]

I'm amazed by-elections aren't automatically triggered when MPs defect from their parties. There's been a strong emphasis on party leaders and party manifestos for decades if not centuries and whips have been bullying back benchers into following the party line for hundreds of years.

My impression is that many of the political crises of recent times would be solved, or more likely prevented, if politicians were subject to recall. Would the Ukranian gov't secretly switch allegiance from the EU to Russia if they knew they'd all be shown the door as soon as the decision was announced. Would the Indian gov't confiscate 80% of cash in circulation if the people could unseat them in non violent rebellion?

The 'English' are well known for being political sheep, they will do the 'rebalancing' at the next election, by judging according to their preferences \ prejudices, how their MP's have performed over the E.U & austerity.
The economy, immigration, along with trade are other issues on which the government will be judged.

The thing about elections is, people do not generally vote for what they want, by way of a particular flavour of government, rather, they vote the way they do to avoid the government they do not want.

They are also 'conservative' with a small 'c', much to the disdain of those who are disparaging about politics in Britain.

[SolarCross]

I am against 'brand' politics, but those MP's are 'rebels without a cause', they are now without a political home & I strongly suspect their local support will wither away once the furore over the E.U has been quelled.

On the contrary there seems to be two causes: "anti-semitism" and backing out of brexit. If it is any consolation the conservatives and other parties are and will face the same schisms. This might be the beginning of a major shakeup of british politics. Maybe the class divide is not the really pressing issue that it seemed to be in the past.

There are remainers in all parties and there are leavers in all parties, perhaps it would make more sense for the Remainers to all be in one party and all the Leavers in another.

Potentially at least there are those who want to pander to muslim votes by denouncing zionism in all parties just as there are those who want to pick up some jewish money by affirming their support for jewish interests like Israel. Perhaps it would make more sense for all the jihadis to be in one party and the zionists in another.

The one thing that never changes is that everything changes.

[Rich]

I'm amazed by-elections aren't automatically triggered when MPs defect from their parties. There's been a strong emphasis on party leaders and party manifestos for decades if not centuries and whips have been bullying back benchers into following the party line for hundreds of years.

My impression is that many of the political crises of recent times would be solved, or more likely prevented, if politicians were subject to recall.

Why not just have fixed date yearly elections? You could vote for everything at the same time. Election campaigns could be abolished. Companies, most clubs, have yearly elections, why are all these people whining on about lack of democracy, but are happy with five year parliaments and the ruling party being able to choose the election timing.

[skinster]

jewish interests like Israel.

This statement is antisemitic. Otherwise, not sure why you're making this a Jews v Muslims thing when if it's anything, it's zionists (racists) vs anti-zionists (anti-racists) or the 1% versus the rest.

[Nonsense]

On the contrary there seems to be two causes: "anti-semitism" and backing out of brexit. If it is any consolation the conservatives and other parties are and will face the same schisms. This might be the beginning of a major shakeup of british politics. Maybe the class divide is not the really pressing issue that it seemed to be in the past.

There are remainers in all parties and there are leavers in all parties, perhaps it would make more sense for the Remainers to all be in one party and all the Leavers in another.

Potentially at least there are those who want to pander to muslim votes by denouncing zionism in all parties just as there are those who want to pick up some jewish money by affirming their support for jewish interests like Israel. Perhaps it would make more sense for all the jihadis to be in one party and the zionists in another.

The one thing that never changes is that everything changes.

Nonsense -
Your opinion, but, I don't see any issues that you have mentioned that require the responses by these MP's.

The people have voted democratically to remove this country from the E.U, the parties to which these MP's belong had manifesto's stating that they will accept the result of what the people voted for,as such, those MP's stood for election on that basis, they are now gaining their MP's pay under 'false pretences', because they were elected as 'brand' MP's & not under 'independence' separate from any party.

As for 'anti - semitism', if people have evidence for it, it has to be dealt with under party rules or the law.

The question is, why would any party want to damage it's reputation on one of the biggest issues of the century?

We know why CORBYN is against Israel(wrongly in my view), that though, is a separate matter to being, 'allegedly' anti-semetic.

What critics of CORBYN have to understand is, the people kicked out of office, the 'Third Way' BLAIR-BROWN 'pro-business & always will be' 'centre ground of 'Labour' politics.

They did not want Thatcherism that BLAIR brought into Labour by abolishing Clause 4 & it's a widely popular policy to renationalise those utility companies.

This country does not need, or want, political 'convergence', a democracy has to have 'divergence' of political ideas & policies to function as a democracy.
That's why the 'Third Way' has failed the majority of the people in this country & abroad.

It's why 'populism' has taken hold, because the cosy political elitist conspiracy by politicians with their incestuous relationship with business, which is fundamentally corrupt, is destroying democracy in the West, it's no use condemning the PUTIN's of this world when the West has the 'TRUMP's that can outdo the 'competition'.

This is why Gordon BROWN's 'pro-business & always will be' mantra is toxic to our democracy & our freedom.

[SolarCross]

Nonsense -
Your opinion, but, I don't see any issues that you have mentioned that require the responses by these MP's.

The people have voted democratically to remove this country from the E.U, the parties to which these MP's belong had manifesto's stating that they will accept the result of what the people voted for,as such, those MP's stood for election on that basis, they are now gaining their MP's pay under 'false pretences', because they were elected as 'brand' MP's & not under 'independence' separate from any party.

I don't disagree. Furthermore I wonder where all these passionate remainers were for the last few decades when UKIP was repeatedly smashing it in the MEP elections. What does it say about Britain's commitment to the EU, including that of Remainers, when electoral processes repeatedly hand representation in Europe to the one party which explicitly wants out? The MEP elections since UKIP formed are a referendum in themselves.



It remains though that the politics which divide us as a nation now is not so much the old class agitation trip of the 1970s as these two new issues of:

1. brexit
2. the growing political influence the Islamic demographic displacing the jewish demographic as most privileged minority.

That was my point only, I am not endorsing these "rebels" at all.

As for 'anti - semitism', if people have evidence for it, it has to be dealt with under party rules or the law.

The question is, why would any party want to damage it's reputation on one of the biggest issues of the century?

We know why CORBYN is against Israel(wrongly in my view), that though, is a separate matter to being, 'allegedly' anti-semetic.

I am not saying corbyn or anyone else is really "anti-semitic" but they are a party that has to get elected to stay in the game and to get elected you need voters. Anytime one tries to embrace a demographic for their votes you will be tainted by their prejudices and their agendas. Muslims vote too and increasingly they have a significant number of votes to offer. Nothing in life is free though so those votes come at a price.