[Nonsense]

Ignoring all the nonsense, if the referendum wasn't legally binding, it can only be advisory right???

Which means that as MPs are sovereign, electing MPs to represent you must have more democratic legitimacy than something that is merely formality. And as such a contradiction within any form of democratic process, what is legal must take presidence over something that isn't. Which means MPs have the legal and a mandate right to frustrate or cancel Brexit if they choose to, regardless of the referendum result under UK democracy.

Has this sunk in yet?

WRONG again..."MP's" are not 'sovereign' parliament is & no, electing an MP is not the same as exercising direct democracy as by referendum.

The referendum result was not legally binding, that is not the issue, the issue is political.
If you think that ignoring a referendum result is politically inconsequential, then you need to re-think that notion when the next election result comes about, along with the current broken state in which our so-called, 'democracy' is viewed globally.

Personally, despite how the political situation is viewed, I do not see the system as 'broken', rather, it's a system that has never worked as it should, even if it has all the necessary components required to make it function.

Any system of order, whose parts are dysfunctional, will always ensure that at some point in time when it is stress tested, will prove inadequate for the task & MP's are that weak link, as opposed to parliament itself.

There is constitutionally, a difference between the so-called sovereignty of parliament & the direct form of democracy as demonstrated by referendum.

Parliament can treat a referendum result as 'advisory', but, when it then moves forward to the passing into law, the necessary legislation to facilitate the exit of the U.K from the E.U following the referendum result, it is then treating the people's expressed opinon as decisive & from the point of view of 'parliamentary sovereignty' - binding.

What makes the political position of the referendum result stronger, is the present position within parliament, whereby the parties are all split, with no concensus, having ruled out all the options for any or no deal, they have thus made the point that parliamentary sovereignty, is only as good as the sum total of it's parts, that is to say, the democratic concensus.

When that concensus has been weakened by the existence of a minority government,so too is the ability to make & pass laws restricted through it's loss, or lack of power(sovereignty)to enact legislation.

MP's do not have 'legal' rights to cancel Brexit, it is political choice that makes such decisions, but as is plain as a pikestaff is, were they to do so, it would cause the political system to implode, as many an 'anarchist' would welcome such an event & so too would millions of the public at large.

For better or worse, however the result is implemented, delivered, signed & sealed it must be.

[ingliz]

[It's] plain as a pikestaff...

... that most people don't give a shit (and won't until it starts affecting them, personally).

[B0ycey]

WRONG again..."MP's" are not 'sovereign' parliament is & no, electing an MP is not the same as exercising direct democracy as by referendum.

What is parliament if not a collective of MPs.

I suppose you have those unelected aristocrats in the red chamber.

Either way this still hasn't helped your cause over democratic validity of the EU referendum. And as long as you admit that the EU referendum was advisory, nothing else really matters.

[Nonsense]

... that most people don't give a shit (and won't until it starts affecting them, personally).

If you were on the end of a pikestaff, it most definitely would affect you inliz.

[Nonsense]

What is parliament if not a collective of MPs.

I suppose you have those unelected aristocrats in the red chamber.

Either way this still hasn't helped your cause over democratic validity of the EU referendum. And as long as you admit that the EU referendum was advisory, nothing else really matters.

Sounds like you are running BOycey, it's self-evident that parliament is currently very weak, that it's 'sovereignty' is diminished in tandem, which, as I have stated,enhances the power of the opinion of the public in that referendum, thus forcing parliament into complying with that instruction to leave the .E.U.


A 'collective of MP's' How about a, 'gaggle of geese'?


We will leave, even if it cost the loss of one or more political parties, because they can or should always be replaced in the resulting political void as the price of their treachery, though it's MP's of the remain variety, as opposed to their parties that will disappear & the parties themselves will be severely weakened too.

[ingliz]

forcing parliament

Mr. Hammond says he has 30 Tory MPs in his pocket and will force a second referendum.

[Nonsense]

Mr. Hammond says he has 30 Tory MPs in his pocket and will force a second referendum.

You mean he's got his flies open ...it won't happen ingliz, but it does illustrate just how desperate the Remainers are.

[B0ycey]

...it won't happen [ingliz], but it does illustrate just how desperate the Remainers are.

It will happen because we have a remain parliament. Brexit can only be resolved with another general election anyway due to a lack of numbers and the only question remains whether Johnson has the balls to call one himself or his hand is forced with a no confidence vote.

[Nonsense]

It will happen because we have a remain parliament. Brexit can only be resolved with another general election anyway due to a lack of numbers and the only question remains whether Johnson has the balls to call one himself or his hand is forced with a no confidence vote.

Being a 'remain' parliament, simply makes the issue a 'contest' between parliament & the people.

I'm not sure that is what the intention of 'democracy' is BOycey?

If that were, as it currently appears to be, there is only one 'winner' , that is not parliament, because, eventually, MP's will have to face the music with voters & it's the people who 'hire & fire' those they elect.

It's that pressure on MP's, with their political parties, which will force them to resolve the issue before a general election that anihilates the 'careers' of those MP's who think that 'democracy' is only for the plebs & that they are the executives in this system.

So, it's not a general election that will 'resolve' it, but the imminent prospect of what happens when that day arrives that will force the MP's hands.

Mind you, they will still be paying the full price when that election day arrives & they are fooling themselves if they think the electorate will buy their excuses for not delivering leave sooner or later.

[snapdragon]

They'll certainly find out if they allow Bojo to deliver the Brexit he's promising.

Mind, the man is a pathological liar so he could even revoke article 50 rather than let it come to that.

"Temporarily" of course.

Until he's managed to reign in those pesky unicorns.

[noemon]

Jeremy Corbyn supports referendum on any Brexit deal and will campaign for Remain under both scenarios:

[snapdragon]

And what if the circumstances are different? He's far too ambiguous.

[B0ycey]

As Corbyns gone this far he may as well just say his ambitions are to reverse Brexit at any cost rather than continue to say we are a party of remain but...

Although at this point in time it doesn't matter what Corbyn decides to do. There are other viable options.

[layman]

@noemon on any Tory brexit deal. To be fair it is sound strategy to leave the option of a labour brexit in order to placate labour brexiteers.

This could be enough to stop the bleeding to the Lib Dem’s. Question now is whether the tories will do the same against the brexit party.

next election could therefore be about damage control and Boris has a problem. The brexit Ultras can never be appeased or satisfied. Not without huge damage and risk that will alienate the rest.

[SolarCross]

Jeremy Corbyn supports referendum on any Brexit deal and will campaign for Remain under both scenarios:

Clearly he has figured out (late) that being ambiguous now is costing him votes. Between Boris and Farage Brexit is too competitive a space for him to enter so he has gone with Remain because he only has to face Swinson and the Lib Dems as competition.

[skinster]

[Nonsense]

Labour have just declared political mass suicide, by adopting a 'remain' policy if there is a 'no deal' or a 'Tory' brexit.

In other words, they have finally & fatally come clean on their remain position that they have always had.

It's all a pointless excercise really, because, unless they can keep the country in the E.U until the next election, which they will now, almost certainly lose anyway, we would already be out of the E.U if BoJo is as good as his word.

If he isn't, the 'nuclear option' will come into play, people will vote Labour, the country will eventually sink in it's own vomit inducing political & economic insanity.

[skinster]

Who knows, they might get more votes from the libs who've been crying about Brexit for years.

Anyway, a lot of the Labour membership is concerned with other issues that Corbyn has been campaigning for/against for most of his life. Just because the media acts as though Brexit is the only issue in Britain right now, doesn't make it so.

[snapdragon]

It is the most important thing, though. The whole future of the country is at stake.

Governments will come and go, party leaders will come and go; but the damage caused by Brexit will stay with us for generations.

[layman]

How on earth do these leftists imagine you can have an economically damaging brexit (any brexit), end austerity, nationalise multiple industries, increase spending on multiple areas all at the same time with a deficit like ours? I mean the shadow cabinet also insisted no tax rises on anyone under 80k because it included head teachers or whatever.

The tories are not the only ones chasing unicorns.

Lib Dem’s and the snp are the two most rational parties right now.