[Beren]

Did Labour not care about the local elections either?

I don't know how much they cared, but I think a general election makes the biggest difference in case of Labour, in terms of activists especially. In my opinion, based on their performance in the last general election, they're much likely underrated by opinion polls and I'd expect them to perform significantly better.

[B0ycey]

Well lets not forget that May published the worse manifesto in history to pay for Brexit. Not alot you can do when the elderly and home owners fuck you off although I am aware you believe it was because of people knocking doors so no surprise you think lightening can strike twice when you don't have the real picture.

Swinsons strength is the undecided. Where do you go if you dislike Corbyn and Johnson.

[Beren]

I am aware you believe it was because of people knocking doors so no surprise you think lightening can strike twice when you don't have the real picture.

You had the real picture about the prospects of the Independent Group too, huh? Or maybe you just always firmly believe your own wishful thinking.

Swinsons strength is the undecided. Where do you go if you dislike Corbyn and Johnson.

Where do you go if you dislike Swinson? She's an opportunist no less than Johnson. Being ardent Remainers is not more challenging than being hardcore Brexitters, I guess, besides that I simply couldn't take her and her party seriously. I understand they have some formidable media support, but without troops on the ground and real party infrastructure it's only enough to create a bubble.

[B0ycey]

You had the real picture about the prospects of the Independent Group too, huh? Or maybe you just always firmly believe your own wishful thinking.

TIGS had potential but no more. They never had the numbers when they needed MPs to leave other parties to join them and so the hype fizzled out. You won't be able to find a quote on here where I said they will do well in a GE.

Where do you go if you dislike Swinson? She's no less an opportunist than Johnson. Being ardent Remainers is not more challenging than being hardcore Brexitters, I guess, besides that I simply couldn't take her and her party seriously. I understand they have some serious media support, but without troops on the ground and real party infrastructure it's only enough to create a bubble.

Funny. Macron was a black marker until he wasn't and was also in a party with no real party infrastructure. How did that play out? Swinson isn't liked by Brexiteers not the public overall and The UK today is mainly remain. I doubt any party can take a majority but to become PM she only needs to out perform Labour which I think she will do. Although she will need their support I guess.

The reason the Lib Dems over perform their polls is because they are the lesser of three evils FYI. They surprise simply because they do indeed take most of the undecided votes.

[Presvias]

Sack me if you dare,’ Boris Johnson will tell the Queen
The Speaker, John Bercow, has been proposed as a national unity leader

Tim Shipman and Caroline Wheeler
October 6 2019, 12:01am, The Sunday Times

Johnson could refuse to resign or recommend the name of any successor to the Queen
Johnson could refuse to resign or recommend the name of any successor to the Queen
VICTORIA JONES
Boris Johnson will dare the Queen to sack him rather than resign as prime minister in an attempt to drive through Brexit on October 31, cabinet ministers have revealed.

In an unprecedented escalation of the constitutional crisis, senior aides said Johnson would not stand aside if his proposals were rejected by Brussels and MPs tried to unseat him to avert a no-deal Brexit.

They said Johnson was prepared to “squat” in Downing Street even if MPs declare no confidence in his government and agree a caretaker prime minister to replace him.

Sources say MPs and peers have even discussed the idea of Commons Speaker John Bercow taking on the job, although some involved in the talks do not think he could command majority support.


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sack ... fsbpsnjdc#

Gosh I hope she calls his bluff.. bluffers are always so brash and ready to fight, until they aren't...

[Beren]

TIGS had potential but no more. They never had the numbers when they needed MPs to leave other parties to join them and so the hype fizzled out. You won't be able to find a quote on here where I said they will do well in a GE.

You only expected 80 MPs or so to join them, how many seats would you predict for the Lib Dems now?

Macron was a black marker until he wasn't and was also in a party with no real party infrastructure.

You compare apples to oranges. In France both the centre-right and the centre-left collapsed, and Swinson is not Macron.

[B0ycey]

You only expected them to have 80 MPs or so, how many seats would you predict for the Lib Dems now?

They needed defectors, they never got them. And I never expected it. I just hoped. So I was right when I said their success will depend on who many defectors they received. But TIGs are yesterday's news.

As for the Lib Dems, I dare not predict yet. Although to beat Labour they will have to be looking at getting 200 or more seats. Which means they need more momentum than they currently have or unite and make pacts with other parties.

@as for Macron and Swinson, at this stage of the game they are Apples and Apples. Do you think the Tories and Labour are soild?

[skinster]

Why vote Lib Dem when you can vote for the Tories?

[Beren]

They needed defectors, they never got them. And I never expected it. I just hoped.

So you just hoped, but now you expect too. You're also convinced Swinson is good-looking, what do you base that on? I understand Remainers who only care about remaining in the EU prefer the Lib Dems, but how is Swinson supposed to be such a sympathetic person? She's just a perfect leader for a meaningless one-issue party.

[B0ycey]

Why vote Lib Dem when you can vote for the Tories?

Because they don't share the same policy on Brexit. Although I think the Coalition with the Tories is the reason the Lib Dems are only emerging from the ashes now and could never expect to gain votes from people who suffered seriously from austerity.

[skinster]

Because they don't share the same policy on Brexit.

They will sooner or later. Never trust a Tory, even the yellow ones.

Also, you sound pretty privileged if Brexit is your one-issue.

[B0ycey]

So you just hoped, but now you expect too. You're also convinced Swinson is good-looking, what do you base that on? I understand Remainers who only care about remaining in the EU prefer the Lib Dems, but how is Swinson supposed to be such a sympathetic person? She's just a perfect leader for a meaningless one-issue party.

This is a forum Beren. If I knew the future I wouldn't be wasting my time on here. I look at events and see patterns. And I don't care whether Swinson is sympathetic or that she is good looking. Although I do think she has a great face for politics and more appealing than a few female leaders I can think of but won't name. The Lib Dems have one bad poll and you think the tide has turned. Maybe it has. Or maybe it hasn't. It doesn't matter because the GE is going to be won on one issue and the Lib Dems have their side and Labour don't. But I will add that the Lib Dems have a whole list of other policies that have nothing to do with Brexit and more affordable and reasonable than Labours wishlist.

[B0ycey]

They will sooner or later. Never trust a Tory, even the yellow ones.

Also, you sound pretty privileged if Brexit is your one-issue.

I grew up on a council estate Skinster and I am sure I have told you that before. And no I do care about other things apart from Brexit. I don't mind a Corbyn government despite what you think.

[Beren]

It doesn't matter because the GE is going to be won on one issue and the Lib Dems have their side and Labour don't. But I will add that the Lib Dems have a whole list of other policies that have nothing to do with Brexit and more affordable and reasonable than Labours wishlist.

Labour have their side too, although it's a little bit more complicated than simply shouting leave or remain. The Brexit Party also could say something about issues that have nothing to do with Brexit, but they're still a one-issue party. The point of the Lib Dem party exactly is that anyone who only wants to remain in the EU is expected to vote for them, which is just sheer opportunism not really different from that of Farage's.

[B0ycey]

Labour have their side too, although it's a little bit more complicated than simply shouting leave or remain. The Brexit Party also could say something about issues that have nothing to do with Brexit, but they're still a one-issue party. The point of the Lib Dem party exactly is that anyone is expected to vote for them who only wants to remain in the EU, which is just sheer opportunism not really different from that of Farage's.

The Lib Dems are an established party Beren. Associating them with the Brexit party who do indeed only have one policy is comparing apples with oranges.

Nonetheless perhaps Labour have the better Brexit policy. And sure the Lib Dems have taken an opportunity by being the party of remain. But where you are right is not your judgement on the Lib Dems but why Labour cannot take advantage of this.

[Beren]

The Lib Dems are an established party Beren. Associating them with the Brexit party who do indeed only have one policy is comparing apples with oranges.

It's rather a shame that they're an established party. They're an established one-issue party that became a flip side of the same coin with the Brexit Party.

[ingliz]

they don't share the same policy

A true blue Tory. Swinson has voted to cut payments for people with illness or disability, voted to cut funding for young people seeking jobs or further training, voted to cut local government funding and voted for increased restrictions on legal aid. She has voted against an increased income tax for those earning over £150,000, voted against a tax on banker’s bonuses, voted against restricting the fees that landlords can charge tenants and always voted for reducing the rate of corporation tax. Swinson has voted to sell off state-owned forests, voted against greater regulation of hydraulic fracturing (fracking), etc, etc.....

[snapdragon]

Brexit needs to get sorted first, before we worry about anything else

I've no time for Corbyn. He doesn't want to be PM. He likes being in opposition so he can shout from the sidelines without having to do anything.

I agree that Jo Swinson is a yellow Tory, but at least she wants to remain, which, at the moment, is all that matters.

If it's a choice between her and Bojo, then I pick her every time.

[Beren]

Do you @snapdragon and @B0ycey live in constituencies where the Lib Dem candidate has a real chance or do you vote Lib Dem regardless?

[B0ycey]

The perils of FPTP...

Lib Dems have a better chance than Labour where I live. This isn't party politics. Labour are strong up North, Lib Dems south. But rather than unite it appears supporters rather attack each other than cooperate it seems.